Best Ever Albums

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

mickilennial — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 20:09:47 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/25/2015 00:09

"People who disregard genres entirely are most likely too immature to deal with the idea that their favorite band is categorically generic, which is often the case. People who adhere to genres like religion often do so out of an obsession in protecting whatever music they identify with from that which they "oppose" and, therefore, listen to generic crap that is exploiting their allegiance. It's important to understand the value and purpose of genre categorization but the best music will always be those that transgress those categories."

Something a friend and mentor told me a few years ago, and I always remember it when discussions like this come up.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:48:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:48

Skinny wrote:

Yes, but 'shoegaze' literally describes an act that goes into the making of the music, which is the obvious difference.

You're right. Still, it's only a descriptor of how the music is made, and not what it sounds like.

Skinny wrote:

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure getting into a discussion with JMan has basically the same effect as meth.

You make me stoned every time.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Skinny — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:30:45 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:30

CubaZed wrote:

Is that a new name for meth?

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure getting into a discussion with JMan has basically the same effect as meth.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:27:55 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:27

Skinny wrote:

Has the average person heard of shoegaze?

Is that a new name for meth?

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Skinny — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:27:09 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:27

Shepard wrote:

OK, I guess the name makes sense, but would the average person make that connection? please tell me I'm not dumber than the average person

Has the average person heard of shoegaze?

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Shepard — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:25:43 GMT

Author: Shepard

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:25

Skinny wrote:

That they probably feed their instruments through a lot of effects pedals... ?

OK, I guess the name makes sense, but would the average person make that connection? please tell me I'm not dumber than the average person

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Skinny — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:25:17 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:25

JMan wrote:

Exactly. Hardly any of these genre labels describe the genre itself. The genres may bring connections to the mind once the name of the genre is spoken to someone familiar with it, but that doesn't mean the label itself makes sense. The genre labels usually have weird origins. Grunge, I can partially understand because "grungy" means dirty. And most grunge does sound kinda fuzzy, distorted, what was supposed to be the musical equivalent of dirty. But that's not true for most of grunge. I can't see an album as polished as Nevermind being "dirty" or "grimy." Part of grunge was an answer to heavy metal incorporating elements of rebellion and punk music while putting more of an emphasis on emotion rather than being flat out obnoxious like punk. Really, grunge music is more associated with emotion and rebellion from rules and legislations of the general sophistication that society oh-so-forces upon teenagers who want nothing more to break out of their rusty cages and run. However, by doing so they created a scene where the rule was to be dirty. This does not mean the label describes the music. It partially describes the scene. I'd say a more fitting label for grunge music would be something like "angst rock." Grunge is built upon teenage angst.

Yes, but 'shoegaze' literally describes an act that goes into the making of the music, which is the obvious difference.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:20:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:20

Skinny wrote:

You can't make music by 'grunging' or 'punking' or 'hip-hopping' either.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Skinny — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:13:24 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:13

JMan wrote:

You can't make music by staring at Converse (unless they're Gorillaz converse...?) :shock:

You can't make music by 'grunging' or 'punking' or 'hip-hopping' either.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:13:01 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:13

JMan wrote:

To me, that's one of if not the biggest example of a genre with a name that has nothing to do with the music itself. You can't make music by staring at Converse (unless they're Gorillaz converse...?) :shock:

It has everything to do with the creation of it though. I mean shoegaze is music molded from effects pedals which you operate with your feet, hence "gazing" at your shoes.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:11:22 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:11

Norman Bates wrote:

Sorry JMan. It was unnecessary.

No, it's fine. I just knew I would end up typing something that would crack someone up. Since it's common, I figured I might as well leave it. I took no offense, I was merely pointing out that I had a feeling.

Skinny wrote:

Yeah, for sure. To me, 'shoegaze' is one of the more logical (sub)genre labels.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Skinny — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:01:38 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:01

CubaZed wrote:

Beat me to it. It's the technical aspect of the genre. Far more of an objective name than something emotionally evocative (like dream pop)

Yeah, for sure. To me, 'shoegaze' is one of the more logical (sub)genre labels.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:00:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2015 20:00

Skinny wrote:

That they probably feed their instruments through a lot of effects pedals... ?

Beat me to it. It's the technical aspect of the genre. Far more of an objective name than something emotionally evocative (like dream pop)

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Skinny — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:58:27 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/24/2015 19:58

Shepard wrote:

So the musicians look at there shoes a lot, what does that tell me about the music.

That they probably feed their instruments through a lot of effects pedals... ?

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Shepard — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 15:56:30 GMT

Author: Shepard

Posted: 03/24/2015 19:56

meccalecca wrote:

Relying too heavily on genres is detrimental. One terrible artist can ruin one's entire perspective of a genre. Hell, how many people avoid country music as a whole expecting it all to sound like Toby Keith or Rascal Flatts?

This is basically my only problem with genres. If I tell somebody that I listen to pretty much anything they will almost always respond with "even country?" or "even rap?" and the chances are they've never heard more than a few songs from that genre.

I also agree with what some other people were saying about the names being bad. The worst in my opinion are the dismissive names, like emo or bubblegum. I don't think grunge is that bad of a name. In my opinion shoegazing is a far more worthless name. So the musicians look at there shoes a lot, what does that tell me about the music.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Norman Bates — Tue, 24 Mar 2015 14:47:44 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 03/24/2015 18:47

JMan wrote:

I knew I'd get something like that.

Sorry JMan. It was unnecessary.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

meccalecca — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 17:09:13 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 03/23/2015 21:09

Genres can be useful as descriptive elements linking a bunch of similar things, but at the same time, they can run completely out of control. Sub genres to sub genres to sub genres may be nice and all, but artistic expressions really never allow themselves to be so easily and narrow-mindedly pigeon-holed.

Relying too heavily on genres is detrimental. One terrible artist can ruin one's entire perspective of a genre. Hell, how many people avoid country music as a whole expecting it all to sound like Toby Keith or Rascal Flatts?

The problem is partially that genre categorization really says nothing of the quality of the music. And the more easily an album is pigeon-holed into an already existing micro genre, the less interesting it often becomes. Much of the best things we hear, push boundaries, often far enough that writers run low of adjectives to describe it, and a new sub genre is born.

As the world becomes smaller and smaller thanks to technological advances, we'll see more and more the merging of so many styles and music ideologies and the lines will be blurred too heavily for even the most nitpicky of genre-cataloguers to pigeonhole.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 16:32:19 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/23/2015 20:32

Norman Bates wrote:

=D>

I knew I'd get something like that. I wrote that because Google had an immediate definition for me when I googled it. I was going to click on a link, but I felt it unnecessary.

But yeah, there are plenty of weird names for genres. Blues was creative. Felling "blue" was already a term when these sad songs were created. But rock? Punk? Bubblegum annoys me the most. How does a song like "Candy Girl" musically remind someone of bubblegum? Bubblegum is just gum that you blow up before it pops. I'll never understand the "mod" label. And some genres named after places, such as Britpop or Merseybeat don't really describe the music at all. Genre's shouldn't be named after places.

Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Norman Bates — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:39:50 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 03/23/2015 19:39

JMan wrote:

grunge means dirt (site: google).

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Re: Point of Discussion: Genres

Anonymous — Mon, 23 Mar 2015 15:22:00 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/23/2015 19:22

sp4cetiger wrote:

That's the problem, though, is that these names often result in confusion about what counts as part of the genre. "Grunge", for example, is actually a description of the way that some of the genre's most famous bands appeared on stage and has nothing to do with the music itself

I'd say grunge is an OK-ish name for the genre. Grunge's music and scene are about dirtiness, and grunge means dirt (site: google).