Best Ever Albums

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Apr 2015 12:23:11 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/12/2015 16:23

2012 wins!

Chalk one up for the hipsters. 😉

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Listmeister — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 17:23:43 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 04/10/2015 21:23

Listmeister wrote:

Revolver's team had the best single album, with Grimes' Vision.
Vision > Little Earthquake

Follow up:

In updating my best of 2012 chart, I discovered that Vision is my favorite of the year. Thanks, Revolver! First time this tournament that's happened.

http://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=15562
http://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart....amp;page=6

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Listmeister — Fri, 10 Apr 2015 10:01:10 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 04/10/2015 14:01

This was close, real close. I'm gonna have to break it down.

Revolver's team had the best single album, with Grimes' Vision. But Junodog had that Tori Amos one.
Vision > Little Earthquake
The second and third best offering of each team:
Lonerism < Harvest Moon
Tramp < 3 years 5 months
But then Team Grimey comes back
Oshin > Automatic for the People
But Team Earthquake answers with
TIWIWTTD < Check Your Head
Finally
2012 Singles < 1992 Singles

So, despite 2012 having the best album, Visions, 1992 had the better set

Vote goes to Team Lil Earthquake.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Skinny — Wed, 8 Apr 2015 11:36:57 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 04/08/2015 15:36

Far from in love with either team. I'm a big fan of Tramp, and I very much like The Idler Wheel too, whilst Lonerism is a pretty chill listen (even if almost all of its charms have worn off at this point). I like Automatic for the People a lot, but it's far from my favourite R.E.M. record, and Check Your Head is great. Harvest Moon is pretty dope too, but I wouldn't really ever put it on anymore.

Honestly, though - all the great hip-hop albums released in 1992, and you somehow managed to pick Arrested Development?! Jesus wept. There are at least two dozen better hip-hop albums you could have picked. But whatever, 'Know the Ledge' is the best thing on either team so I guess that makes up for it.

Narrow vote to 1992.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

RockyRaccoon — Wed, 8 Apr 2015 09:38:58 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 04/08/2015 13:38

Infinity183 wrote:

Lol, true. I'm not a 'he,' though.

My bad, I should read things.

Skinny wrote:

Who doesn't?

No doubt, catchy songs are always awesome, even if they're annoyingly catchy (I'm looking at you "Karma Chameleon").

I just thought it was funny that there were paragraphs upon paragraphs of text from Infinity that basically boiled down to "I like catchy tunes with traditional song structures".

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Skinny — Wed, 8 Apr 2015 09:25:45 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 04/08/2015 13:25

RockyRaccoon wrote:

This is a lot of conversation for Infinity to say that he likes catchy songs

Who doesn't?

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Infinity183 — Wed, 8 Apr 2015 09:22:15 GMT

Author: Infinity183

Posted: 04/08/2015 13:22

RockyRaccoon wrote:

This is a lot of conversation for Infinity to say that he likes catchy songs

Lol, true. I'm not a 'he,' though.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

RockyRaccoon — Wed, 8 Apr 2015 09:15:26 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 04/08/2015 13:15

This is a lot of conversation for Infinity to say that he likes catchy songs

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Anonymous — Wed, 8 Apr 2015 05:02:58 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/08/2015 09:02

Given I think the problem some may have had was really just semantics on how your opinion came across. It may have been better to just focus on the individual artists you do care for and why these appeal to you more, its when modern music is all lumped together and somehow it's just "art for art's sake" in comparison to music of the past (when there's been arty-farty music throughout every generation, of varying quality), that naturally illicits some negative reactions and can seem like we're getting personal but it's really just a defense of the era (? IDKWTMs) instead (fuck I eneed less wine before bed).

Given I think the reason the original statement may have enflared some more divisive reactions in particular is because it originally felt like flashbacks to Mr Shankly's arguments that were often blanket assumptions about modern music and he stated them in a far less polite way; often calling modern music "arty-farty soundscapes" that didn't focus on the songcraft, without often given cogent explanations, and made it crystal clear he had little time and interest for exploring new music thoroughly. So just for perspective there's been very similar arguments made, but this was a real discussion with everybody giving a good reasoning for their different opinions, so it was much better than the old v new years spat we had crop up in the original Best Year tournament.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Infinity183 — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 16:08:52 GMT

Author: Infinity183

Posted: 04/07/2015 20:08

Skinny wrote:

I totally agree with everything you just said, I'm really speaking more of what other people seem to define as artistic vs. vapid commercial product, and usually it's pop artists like Phil Collins who get classified the most for the latter, even though both his solo albums and his work with Genesis in the 80s and early 90s contain a fair amount of ambitious ideas. Coming off of this, I think it's funny that Junodog called Cyndi Lauper a "bold" choice for my current team because she was extremely groundbreaking and eccentric when her first album came out (it's even on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums list), even though she was also a leading proponent of the commercial juggernaut that was MTV. I also certainly wouldn't argue that Prince isn't art; his songs usually have radio-friendly melodies, but he experiments with so many different musical styles and themes that his work is in a class of its own.

I do agree that Arcade Fire is similar to Bruce Springsteen, especially Neon Bible in particular (by far their best album, in my opinion), which probably explains why I enjoy the album so much.

Quote:

For what it's worth, I think Mariah Carey is great. I love Music Box and The Emancipation of Mimi, and I was a big fan of her last record too (which, whilst far from being one of my very favourite albums of 2014, was definitely more hit than miss, and probably her best since the aforementioned Mimi). I also don't particularly care for much on this particular 2012 team. I just think that defining one as being more "arty" than the other is a pretty meaningless comparison. "I prefer this music because it speaks to me more" vs. "I prefer this music because it doesn't contain the artsy embellishments that seem commonplace within the 21st century musical zeitgeist" - I know which sounds better (or at least less snooty).

I guess by "arty" I mean music which, in general, deviates from conventional musical structures, production, etc. A lot of bands that follow this can exist and get a record deal in the 21st century because the digital age has made it easier for everyday people to spread word about these band to others. Experimentation is certainly not something that automatically harms an album, but it's not inherently auspicious, either, and I think the latter part carries a bit more weight for me than most.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Skinny — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 13:15:37 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 04/07/2015 17:15

Infinity183 wrote:

Oh, I absolutely think people should produce and listen to post-modern artsy music because it truly resonates with them; my real point is that just because something its deeply artistic does not mean I enjoy listening to it. I see artistic qualities as a means of embellishing the overall tone and sound of a song or album, not the primary quality factor (albeit still a relevant one). I think the progression of history and especially the rise of the digital age in particular has facilitated an underground music universe that encourages diverse influences and heavy experimentation, resulting in a lot of music that's very personalized and difficult to define, but the sonic results are notably more hit-or-miss for me than the vast majority of other people my age.

One of my personal favorite musical acts is 90s Mariah Carey, and that should obviously say a lot about of what type of consumer I am. I know her music isn't the most artistically insightful and mostly just revolves around traditional themes of romance that you hear on the radio, but the power and expression in her voice, combined with the melodious musical structures she writes that perfectly advance her straightforward lyrics, cause her otherwise simple material to not only far outmatch all other pop/r&b musicians, but also sound just as pleasing to me as a lot my favorite music that's more complex. I still prefer artists like Kate Bush, Steely Dan, Bruce Springsteen, and the Talking Heads because their discographies are just more substantial, but for strength of sound and tone alone, I still love listening to Mariah Carey on a regular basis. I also relate a lot to her personal views and struggles, far more so than the artists behind today's popular art rock, so her music is much more meaningful to me for strictly personal reasons.

Hopefully, you can understand a little more where I'm coming from, even if you strongly disagree with me, which wouldn't surprise me here.

Part of my point was that all popular music is art for art's sake. I'm not even sure that the modern music you were referring to is actually any more "arty" or "artsy" or whatever than what, for example, Phil Collins or Prince were doing. 'When Doves Cry' doesn't have a bassline. I don't know what "deeply artistic" means. Like, where you suffer for your art? Like Daniel Johnston or Vincent van Gogh? Or where you spend most of your time thinking about how to further your art? In which case, I'm pretty sure Springsteen and the Arcade Fire aren't that different. "Embellishing the overall tone"? Like '80s stadium drums? I mean, pretty much all recording artists who receive any sort of public recognition whatsoever have a certain style and aesthetic that they are aiming to put across. A hard-rock sound, as forged in a studio, is no less pretentious than that cloudy, lilting bedroom pop style as done by somebody like Toro y Moi. One isn't any artier than the other.

For what it's worth, I think Mariah Carey is great. I love Music Box and The Emancipation of Mimi, and I was a big fan of her last record too (which, whilst far from being one of my very favourite albums of 2014, was definitely more hit than miss, and probably her best since the aforementioned Mimi). I also don't particularly care for much on this particular 2012 team. I just think that defining one as being more "arty" than the other is a pretty meaningless comparison. "I prefer this music because it speaks to me more" vs. "I prefer this music because it doesn't contain the artsy embellishments that seem commonplace within the 21st century musical zeitgeist" - I know which sounds better (or at least less snooty).

But whatever. I've said much worse.

EDIT: I'm coming down from a four-day bender and I have no idea what I'm even arguing here. Ignore me.

p.s. fuck bank holiday weekends.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

junodog4 — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:54:47 GMT

Author: junodog4

Posted: 04/07/2015 16:54

All this riveting discussion should inspire you to vote 1992. 😁

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Infinity183 — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:46:39 GMT

Author: Infinity183

Posted: 04/07/2015 16:46

Saoirse wrote:

I think the problem is that your initial reply came across as a total blanket assumption about modern music, that it can all be lumped together and that somehow it's less authentic than music of the past. Now obv that's been backed up with a thoughtful response, which is good. However, spending time on the internet listening to other music fans often born in the 90s or later who just trash modern music and say the only good music was in the 60s or some other time in the 20th century, while often just automatically dismissing anything coming out currently (and sometimes admitting they listen to nothing beyond what's played on the radio), hearing things like that, even with lucid reasoning, can be very irksome and I think that rubbed a few people (myself included) the wrong way. I guess Id be more interested on your individual takes on each different album (as well as other recent albums released) rather than just saying it's all art for art's sake, which just comes across as condescending and a bit like approaching every new album with the automatic assumption that it's not going to be good, or as good as anything done in the past.

I was born in 1992, so I've been plenty surrounded by newer stuff and learned about older music through a variety of other means, but honestly, I'm just going to state frankly that my opinion isn't to be taken fully seriously because I was raised on the Now That's What I Call Music! albums and I never really grew resentful towards mainstream music, at least from the first half of 2005 and earlier. I know the Now albums are mostly just radio hits (with an occasional song of serious merit, like "Karma Police" on the first compilation in the series), but I just personally take songs a bit more for what they are, whether or not there's a truly complex impetus behind them. To be fair, the vast majority of my personal favorite albums I like because of their layered progressions, charismatic vocal delivery, solid production, and thematic adventurism, but they're usually held together by a sturdy melodiousness, which not all but still a lot of newer albums seem to forgo in my opinion (though a lot of weight is also directed against the typical vocal style that seems to have clearly evolved between generations).

More and more, I'm discovering that there actually is plenty of newer experimental, indie, and art music that I genuinely enjoy listening to, but there's still an awful lot of music from the new millennium that people here adore but I just don't think is that great, and this is not really the case with previous decades. Some albums, like For Emma, Forever Ago and the aforementioned Neon Bible sound truly beautiful to me, but others, like the ones revolver chose for this matchup, sound very muddy to me and I think people here appreciate them for reasons that don't resonate as much with me. I'm sorry if I sound condescending, because I really don't want to seem like I'm not giving newer music a fair chance, but it's still personally evident to me that a ton of albums I consider overrated happen to be newer, and I think it just has to do with a certain post-modern artistic ethos that I don't find appealing, even if the respective albums are vastly diverse in composition.

Skinny wrote:

I'm not sure what the problem is with art trying to be art, frankly. Like, is it somehow less sincere if the author realises that what they're doing is making something that's largely worthless and for almost exclusively decorative purposes? Because, to me anyway, that actually sounds preferable to somebody creating art with the belief that it's actually something more important than art, as though they're some kind of prodigious cultural leader ready to "bring the passion back" and teach the youth the error of their ways. I'm not saying that sometimes it isn't really cool to see people want to change the world, or at least to change people's lives through the power of music, just that it's also really cool to have people who are creating arty stuff for human consumption because they quite enjoy doing that.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Anonymous — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:09:45 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2015 16:09

I am going to put a "by the way" in there, as while again young music fans who can be annoying (Im not saying people in this thread or BEA) by saying all the good music was made decades before they were born and all modern music is garbage, there are people both here and across the internet who can be entirely dismissive of "rockist" or "dadrocker" music, which is often an equally blanket epitath thrown at anything with loud guitars or you know that really clearly-defined "proggy" or "rock" sound, or anything that's relatively older and found on their parents (or grandparents) radio. That can be every bit as annoying and close-minded as automatically dismissing new music, cuz every generation has great music that IS exceptional because it rose above the usual tide of the time, just different music from different generations speak to different people for... different reasons.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Anonymous — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:58:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2015 15:58

It's hard for me to believe that musicians of any generation make anything other than music that they love, especially considering that the commercial rewards for their efforts are usually so small. One possible difference with modern musicians is the amount and variety of music that they have access to, so they may be less satisfied with revisiting sounds they've already heard hundreds of times before.

Most likely, though, this is just the usual generational misunderstandings. I don't think modern music is any more or less artistic than what came before, but it is different. And what follows it will be different, too, and many of the current young folks will be in Infinity's place.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Anonymous — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:57:28 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2015 15:57

Not to mention there was a lot of arty-farty bullshit in EVERY era, usually the best albums survive cuz they were those special snowflakes that actually rose above easy classification... or you know just did a really good job coloring in the lines and have nostalgic value up the wazoo. But you know I def hope those fakers Tame Impala and Fiona Apple can def achieve that same sort of passionate gravitas as, you know, Emerson Lake and Palmer and Oasis.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Skinny — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:42:25 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 04/07/2015 15:42

I'm not sure what the problem is with art trying to be art, frankly. Like, is it somehow less sincere if the author realises that what they're doing is making something that's largely worthless and for almost exclusively decorative purposes? Because, to me anyway, that actually sounds preferable to somebody creating art with the belief that it's actually something more important than art, as though they're some kind of prodigious cultural leader ready to "bring the passion back" and teach the youth the error of their ways. I'm not saying that sometimes it isn't really cool to see people want to change the world, or at least to change people's lives through the power of music, just that it's also really cool to have people who are creating arty stuff for human consumption because they quite enjoy doing that.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Anonymous — Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:26:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2015 15:26

Infinity183 wrote:

Well, for one, certainly not the more mainstream stuff, which is also widely worse than its late 20th century counterparts, but I just mean most of what people consider the greatest albums from the 21st century doesn't appeal much to me because it feels like it generally puts art before sound, without achieving both. I've found the occasional indie album that I've actually thoroughly enjoyed, like Neon Bible (which is in my top 25), but the vast bulk of 21st century records don't stand out that much to me.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

Infinity183 — Mon, 6 Apr 2015 21:51:47 GMT

Author: Infinity183

Posted: 04/07/2015 01:51

MrFrogger wrote:

Do they? All of those albums sound completely different, ie my last post. Are you saying that all 21st century albums all carry this aesthetic that you don't like? Because if so, that baffles me. But to each his/her own.

Re: BYT - G2 - 1992 (Junodog) vs 2012 (revolver)

craola — Mon, 6 Apr 2015 19:17:25 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 04/06/2015 23:17

someone saved their dynamite for today. i'm lookin' at you, '12.