Best Ever Albums

Re: Bias towards British bands

sksol — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:52:49 GMT

Author: sksol

Posted: 10/28/2015 15:52

Progressive music is associated with the UK much more than with the US. And I would argue that it broke away from "Black" music.

Re: Bias towards British bands

samistake2ice — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:47:55 GMT

Author: samistake2ice

Posted: 10/28/2015 15:47

TannerVHalv wrote:

However, since black Americans are responsible for most of the genres that are popular today (jazz, rock, hip hop, r&B, soul, etc.,) you may be able to say that US music has been historically more innovative.

I wouldn't even limit it to just "Black" music. I'd say that the US pioneered modern music. With country, folk, blues, rock, etc etc.

I do think that the best "Rock bands" of all time lean in favor of the UK. But some one else made a good point that i think just because of the size and diversity of the US there is a lot of music produced from here.

Most of my charts are overwhelmingly American (70-90%) That doesn't make me a xenophobe and it doesn't mean that i don't like many types of music. But I have created my charts for 2 main purposes; 1) as a reference for myself to look back on, and 2) as vehicle to promote the music that i enjoy so that perhaps someone else might enjoy it too.

I realize Ive veered off topic, but i'll finish by saying, sure, there are flaws with the BEA system. I think that within the community certain albums get hyped passed the point they should be, and other albums go generally overlooked. I also think that BEA is the best method I've seen for compiling a comprehensive list such as we try to do.

So with that in mind use the site as a guide to expand your horizons and find music you like regardless of where it came from.

Re: Bias towards British bands

FlorianJones — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:09:55 GMT

Author: FlorianJones

Posted: 10/28/2015 15:09

Satie wrote:

But US music is obviously vastly superior to UK music, and I hope this fact continues to become clearer for all.

I don't know that US music is better on average than UK music, but due to population size there is a lot more US music. Therefore there should be a lot more good US music. However, since black Americans are responsible for most of the genres that are popular today (jazz, rock, hip hop, r&B, soul, etc.,) you may be able to say that US music has been historically more innovative.

Re: Bias towards British bands

Liedzeit — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:44:50 GMT

Author: Liedzeit

Posted: 10/28/2015 14:44

sksol wrote:

What is the ideal?

I am afraid we already have the ideal here at BEA. People here have enough love for music to take the trouble to compile a list. The overall result is pretty impressive, I think. The BEA chart is not worse than the one compiled for example by the experts of RollingStone. Surely, we would have a different list if people were forced to widen their scope, listen to Ukrainian music. Listen to Jazz, if you are a Rock fan, listen to HipHop if you enjoy country music.

Take someone like Pietro Scaruffi, who obviously has an obscene knowledge of all music from all genres and every age (or so it seems). Is his list better than mine or yours or the average of BEA? In a sense yes, he likes music that we literally have never heard of, so his judgement should have more weight. On the other hand, can you take someone seriously who dislikes the Beatles? I believe in the wisdom of the crowd, as long as the crowd is dedicated to the cause.

Re: Bias towards British bands

sksol — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:22:10 GMT

Author: sksol

Posted: 10/28/2015 14:22

Liedzeit, so what is the gold standard then? What ideal ranking chould the chart here approximate?
Taking every person in the world who understands music, and ask them to create charts? Or taking every music expert/writer, and average them? What is the ideal?

Re: Bias towards British bands

Liedzeit — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:11:23 GMT

Author: Liedzeit

Posted: 10/28/2015 14:11

sksol wrote:

I'm wondering how to bring the list to one we would get if we could ask every person in the world, and then average.

You do not want that. First, of course, most people are not willing or able to list even 10 Albums, let alone 100. But if they were, we would have a bias towards English/American music. We would have a bias toward current music, we would have a bias towards "popular" music - which is a kind of tautology in this case.

Are you familiar with the Eurovision Song Contest? There millions (certainly hundreds of thousand) of people from more than 20 Countries vote for their favorite song (out of very bad ones). The result is grotesque.

Re: Bias towards British bands

Applerill — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:06:37 GMT

Author: Applerill

Posted: 10/28/2015 14:06

I dunno, even though there's obviously a lot of British music that I love, thinking about most British music of the past twenty years makes me vomit out an NME-colored spew on my keyboard. So much of British pop culture revolves around a sort of canonical over-reverence, and I just can't stand that mentality that the worst Arctic Monkeys album is still a masterpiece because it features Alex Turner. (I hope that doesn't sound racist)

Re: Bias towards British bands

Anonymous — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 10:03:43 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/28/2015 14:03

I feel like the intrinsic issue at hand is that the US and UK music industries pioneered the centrality of the LP. On a website where we are told to name the best albums and have to leave out 78s, EPs, singles, etc. I feel like the most likely users are those with a specific affection for the height of the LP as the dominant format of consumption, which was marked by US and UK domination of music sales at least in the western world from the mid-'60s to early '80s. The next tier and layer out from that is people with a preference for rock music in general, since it's one of very few (only?) musical genres that takes the LP to be the golden standard of artistic and commercial output. So it's hard to assess what albums would be considered the best ever in countries where the introduction of the LP as single artistic piece instead of compilation of songs was pioneered by western rock bands. I also think the US and UK continue to dominate or at least insert themselves to some extent in most global markets for music. The lack of non-western music in the charts is more a reflection of power relations in the world and the role of art and the particular format of the LP in western society than it is a testament to the aesthetic superiority of the west.

But US music is obviously vastly superior to UK music, and I hope this fact continues to become clearer for all.

Re: Bias towards British bands

sksol — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:37:20 GMT

Author: sksol

Posted: 10/28/2015 13:37

Quote:

. You mean the number of American, Italian, Polish, Chinese Records in the Top 100 should represent the number of people living in these countries, or the number of records produced - or bought - in these countries?

No, that is not at all what I mean. An unbiased rating would be if every person in the world voted, not some select sample. Since this is impossible, and the sample on this website has a bias, I'm wondering how to bring the list to one we would get if we could ask every person in the world, and then average.

Re: Bias towards British bands

Liedzeit — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:09:32 GMT

Author: Liedzeit

Posted: 10/28/2015 13:09

Norman Bates wrote:

I seriously doubt that.

You are right. I should have said: having lived in Germany in the 70ies (when my musical taste was formed). Then the ratio was probably 5:3. Certainly less then 5% neither American nor British on Rock radio.

Re: Bias towards British bands

Norman Bates — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 09:00:31 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 10/28/2015 13:00

Liedzeit wrote:

living in Europe you tend to hear more British music than American.

I seriously doubt that.

Re: Bias towards British bands

Liedzeit — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 08:55:48 GMT

Author: Liedzeit

Posted: 10/28/2015 12:55

Actually I am surprised that 30% of my Top 100 are from the US. And only 50% from Britain. I thought it would be even more "biased". One reason, as has been pointed out, there are a couple of exceptional artists. Another reason certainly is that living in Europe you tend to hear more British music than American. Third reason, Britisch music is better! 😁
Is there a way to filter out the bias? That is a strange question. You mean the number of American, Italian, Polish, Chinese Records in the Top 100 should represent the number of people living in these countries, or the number of records produced - or bought - in these countries? I would like to see that, but only for fun.

Re: Bias towards British bands

Skinny — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 08:23:30 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 10/28/2015 12:23

Can only speak for myself here, but I'm British and only 25% of my chart is made up of British albums. I understand that's still a fairly high percentage, especially given how many nations I could conceivably draw from, but it doesn't seem excessive by any means. As for a British bias in the overall, the statistics are obviously skewed by a few very popular British acts (The Beatles account for 6% of the top 100 alone; Radiohead for 5%; Led Zep for 5%; Pink Floyd for 4%; The Rolling Stones for 3%; David Bowie for 3% - that's over a quarter of our top 100 made up by only six British acts), and so it's actually very difficult to gauge how much of a British bias there is. There are over 50% more American artists in our top 100 than British artists (37 vs. 24), for example, which certainly doesn't back up the "British bias" suggestion. I don't really care either way, but it isn't something I've ever noticed, and so I'm inclined to say that it doesn't exist (in at least as much as any bias of that sort is merely a byproduct of our obvious English-speaking, guitar-rock bias).

Re: Bias towards British bands

Norman Bates — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 05:35:40 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 10/28/2015 09:35

sksol wrote:

Well, 7 out of 10 top albums are from British bands..

Half of the top 10 is by either Radiohead or The Beatles, not 5 different British bands.

Re: Bias towards British bands

sksol — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 05:22:59 GMT

Author: sksol

Posted: 10/28/2015 09:22

Well, 7 out of 10 top albums are from British bands..

Re: Bias towards British bands

Norman Bates — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 04:48:11 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 10/28/2015 08:48

sksol wrote:

Hi,

Do you think there is a bias in the rankings because the site is based in the UK,

The site is based in Spain I think. At least AM is.

sksol wrote:

and hence most users are from the UK?

My perception was that most users came from the US. Might be wrong.

sksol wrote:

is British music really the best?

There is no such thing as a "best country" for music.

Bias towards British bands

sksol — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 02:04:02 GMT

Author: sksol

Posted: 10/28/2015 06:04

Hi,

Do you think there is a bias in the rankings because the site is based in the UK, and hence most users are from the UK? Is there a way to filter this bias out?
Or is British music really the best?