Best Ever Albums

Re: Originality

Zoso — Sun, 8 May 2011 04:11:32 GMT

Author: Zoso

Posted: 05/08/2011 08:11

I think it means you do usually get lucky.. when you nail something.. 😜

Re: Originality

Necharsian — Sun, 8 May 2011 02:39:37 GMT

Author: Necharsian

Posted: 05/08/2011 06:39

Jhereko wrote:

i think you nailed it necharsian

I probably just got lucky.

Re: Originality

badfaith — Sat, 7 May 2011 06:42:10 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 05/07/2011 10:42

I think you need some degree of originality, but more importantly is variety and variation.

The reason we have successive waves of interest in a style of music is that people very quickly get bored with being in a narrow band of music, and want to, if not hear something new and original, then at least something different for a change in order to remain stimulated. Because music speaks to us, and for us.

So any music genre that has it's golden age will eventually expire, and get back on the carousel of culture, waiting to come back into the broader socially consciousness when a new generation, to whom it will be new discovers it afresh, as happened with punk, brit-pop, and every other style of music.
The important thing is that the carousel is not stopped, and these vatious styles are able to feed each other... and with the apparent collapse of the music industry at the turn of the millenium, and Simon Cowell's greatest sin of simply being too successful, while the rest of the industry dried up, the possibilities and variation in music became much too narrowly defined to meet our cultural needs...for we are men of parts, and different moods, ideas, and feelings.

When a 'movement' arises in music, it is at the exclusion and expense of other types of music... I remember the early nineties when I could walk down the street, and be as likely to see a Heavy metal fan as a goth, a dance fan, a pop fan, even a mod or two and an ageing ted. Now I only observe one standard of culture pretty much, which these successive movements have excluded, culminating that time when hip-hop seemed to eat everything in sight... so if people crave originality perhaps it is actually this variation they are seeking... something else, something different.
I could probably count the truly original musical experiences i've had on two hands... Tommorow Never Knows. I am the Walrus, Drum and Bass, and things like this, which are the 'holy shit!' moments you rarely experience.

Tricky's finest moments on Maxinquaye draw from cover versions that you didn't know much about till then, or were obscure, but collected and presented afresh to a new audience, or Radiohead, with their influence of Autechre, and other fringe noodlists.

one example for me is Boards of Canada, who pulled off the strange trick of being placed as one of the most original things around at the time, but did so by tapping directly into your nostalgia, and the memory of things long forgotten... they haven't re-invented the wheel, they just gave you a square one here and there, or a Rhombus or two!

Re: Originality

Anonymous — Sat, 7 May 2011 06:36:47 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/07/2011 10:36

Necharsian wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

With respect, you mis-represented what I said. I didn't say they "utilized originality", that is nonsensical. I used the phrase "utilizing influences". Also, the distinction I made between Radiohead and Stereolab was clearly outlined I think. Again, you mis-interpretted it.

I disagree with L.J Peter. A band like Neu, for example, invented a new form of music, that was totally original.

Oops you are right; misquote. However, I don't think I misinterpretted the difference between Radiohead and Stereolab. You said one takes on an innovative and exciting way of using influences, and the other uses influences in a bad way, somehow. That is dealing with music that you like vs. dislike. I feel like some people would say that Radiohead is an imaginative band.

i think you nailed it necharsian

Re: Originality

alelsupreme — Sat, 7 May 2011 06:28:50 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 05/07/2011 10:28

I know this may seem a pretty stupid and simple viewpoint but i'm not too bothered about originality. As long as they don't sound nearly completely like their ifnluences I don't mind, as long as they sound good.

Re: Originality

Necharsian — Sat, 7 May 2011 04:20:41 GMT

Author: Necharsian

Posted: 05/07/2011 08:20

hairymarx1 wrote:

Re: Originality

hairymarx1 — Fri, 6 May 2011 04:17:30 GMT

Author: hairymarx1

Posted: 05/06/2011 08:17

Necharsian wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

Bands like the Strokes and Pavement produce soulless derivative pap. I personally cannot understand how any person who calls hmself/herself a music fan could find anything remotely interesting in them.

Originality is really important to me, as is - as somebody else said - the manner in which an artist utilizes influences. Of course the two can, and indeed often do, overlap. So, in the case of a band like Stereolab, for example, one can clearly hear the influences of The Velvet Underground, Neu, 60's lounge music, nostagic easy-listening and avant-garde etc, but what emerges is nevertheless a truelly innovative, distinctive and exciting modern sound that is at the same time strangely familiar.

On the other hand, an overrated band like Radiohead, and perhaps to a lesser extent, Spiritualized, clearly utilize influences in a much more unimaginative way resulting in a sound that more often than not doesn't sparkle, illuminate or excite...It's almost as though they take on board such a multitude of influences in an overt and clearly cynical way to the extent that any potential for originality becomes diluted.

It seems to me as if both Stereolab and Radiohead, by your explanation, are equally as original, or unoriginal, as each other. The reason you like or dislike them is based on your own taste, not originality.
I don't think anyone can "utilize originality." It is not a trait that some people have and others don't. No band is perfectly unique, and no band is a perfect copy.

Like Laurence J Peter said, "Originality is the fine art of remembering what you hear, but forgetting where you heard it."

Re: Originality

Necharsian — Fri, 6 May 2011 00:09:40 GMT

Author: Necharsian

Posted: 05/06/2011 04:09

hairymarx1 wrote:

Re: Originality

nrs182 — Thu, 5 May 2011 22:50:27 GMT

Author: nrs182

Posted: 05/06/2011 02:50

My Opinion:
A band that takes some influences from another band its cool, they will do it their way. But a band who wants to sound like another band, thats lame, thats sad and that will never sound right. I love when a band try to mix two styles and they create their own, Muse is Radiohead meets Queen, but really who could have thought Queen and Radiohead together was cool? Only them! And thats their style, they are not trying to be neither of em, they are being Muse.

Originality is difficult right now when there is a lot of music out there, Tune Yards WHOKILL is a perfect example Jhereko, that girl is so original and i liked it, but not that much. Originality is just something to take into account, but its not that important, the way the artist creates its music taking whatever he wants from others is what makes him an artist, the way he mixes styles, the way he changes an style, or at least the way he adds something that was done before, but that adding something can change the whole bussiness.

Re: Originality

hairymarx1 — Thu, 5 May 2011 22:18:30 GMT

Author: hairymarx1

Posted: 05/06/2011 02:18

Bands like the Strokes and Pavement produce soulless derivative pap. I personally cannot understand how any person who calls hmself/herself a music fan could find anything remotely interesting in them.

Originality is really important to me, as is - as somebody else said - the manner in which an artist utilizes influences. Of course the two can, and indeed often do, overlap. So, in the case of a band like Stereolab, for example, one can clearly hear the influences of The Velvet Underground, Neu, 60's lounge music, nostagic easy-listening and avant-garde etc, but what emerges is nevertheless a truelly innovative, distinctive and exciting modern sound that is at the same time strangely familiar.

On the other hand, an overrated band like Radiohead, and perhaps to a lesser extent, Spiritualized, clearly utilize influences in a much more unimaginative way resulting in a sound that more often than not doesn't sparkle, illuminate or excite...It's almost as though they take on board such a multitude of influences in an overt and clearly cynical way to the extent that any potential for originality becomes diluted.

Re: Originality

Hayden — Thu, 5 May 2011 18:26:59 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 05/05/2011 22:26

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Hayden wrote:

Sure, original albums are hard to come by because they're hard to make, but if we get rid of originality, music won't be made in a few years time.

Sorry, I don't understand what your point is. Can you please clarify?

Now that i re-read it, it doesn't make much sense. 🤡 I meant 'But if we get rid of anything but originality'

Re: Originality

19loveless91 — Thu, 5 May 2011 03:56:19 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 05/05/2011 07:56

That's a good guess 🤣
Back to the thread - I think that when you're listening to a band, know that they're not original, but don't really care that they're not.. Then I guess they did a good enough job (for you).. For example I don't care that Coldplay aren't original, though the fact that I "discovered" them before Radiohead might have helped.

Re: Originality

Anonymous — Thu, 5 May 2011 01:06:18 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/05/2011 05:06

19loveless91 wrote:

Jhereko wrote:

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Who do you think sounds derivative (besides the Strokes)? Who sounds like they have created their own unique identity?

I think all 3 of the ones that loveless knew I liked (he must have been keeping tabs on my opinions 😲 ) and called me on, do exactly that. The Killers maybe as well.

🫢 Dammit I feel like a stalker (or at the very least someone who spends way too much time here)... But I know you put Cut Copy at #1 (or somewhere near) on your chart once cause I checked them out afterwards, you put All my friends in top 10 of your songs (again - I only checked that song after that - the first one of them I really liked).. And, well, I know you like Coldplay, I do follow some of debates here.

🤣 you don't spend too much time here, if you've been here since December 2010 and have 1700 posts under your name then you know you spend too much time (not mentioning any names 😲 ). Anyway I know as mcuh about you for instance i know you really like.....................loveless.

Re: Originality

19loveless91 — Thu, 5 May 2011 01:01:39 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 05/05/2011 05:01

Jhereko wrote:

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Who do you think sounds derivative (besides the Strokes)? Who sounds like they have created their own unique identity?

I think all 3 of the ones that loveless knew I liked (he must have been keeping tabs on my opinions 😲 ) and called me on, do exactly that. The Killers maybe as well.

Re: Originality

Anonymous — Thu, 5 May 2011 00:19:45 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/05/2011 04:19

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Who do you think sounds derivative (besides the Strokes)? Who sounds like they have created their own unique identity?

I think all 3 of the ones that loveless knew I liked (he must have been keeping tabs on my opinions 😲 ) and called me on, do exactly that. The Killers maybe as well.

Re: Originality

Mr. Shankly — Thu, 5 May 2011 00:13:27 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 05/05/2011 04:13

For me, The Strokes are an exception for me, at least in regards to their first album. I think this is because most of the Strokes influences sound like cutting-edge non-mainstream bands, such as The Velvet Underground.

An example of a really derivative band might be Gene, who I bet you no one remembers. They had an obvious Smiths fixation, right down to the art work. James had a bit of a Smiths fixation too. Teenage Fanclub seemed very influenced by Big Star. The Goo Goo Dolls always sounded like a watered down version of the Replacements. The Gin Blossoms and especially, Hootie and the Blowfish sounded like a watered down R.E.M. Rage Against the Machine always sounded like they spent way too many hours with the first three Public Enemy albums. You get the idea.

I want to explain the identity thing more too. A band should sound like a potpourri of influences and be a melting pot of sorts to form their own identity. Early Radiohead is an interesting example as one can hear bits of The Smiths, R.E.M., The Pixies, and U2, but they didn't sound too much like any of those bands exactly. They crafted their own sound out of those influences. Newer bands that I think have their own identity include The National and The Decemberists. Those are both bands, where you can hear some of the influences, but they have their own unique sound. I'm on the fence about Fleet Foxes. Although they seem more indebted to an era of music than a particular band. I thought the same thing about the garage revival bands a few years back.

Another way a band forms its own identity is to put a new spin on a old idea. That's really what originality is. Here's a question: Were Oasis in any way original. To me, the only spin they put on their music was to take Beatles melodies and play them loud in an arena rock sort of format. The Ramones drew heavily on old rock n roll, but played it in a louder, more aggressive, stripped down way.

Who do you think sounds derivative (besides the Strokes)? Who sounds like they have created their own unique identity?

Re: Originality

Anonymous — Wed, 4 May 2011 22:28:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 05/05/2011 02:28

Romanelli wrote:

People who seek out originality and things that are fresh, new, on the edge and rare are the minority. Unfortunate but true. Be glad you're in the minority. It's a good one to be in.

I'm in enough minorities already thanks 🤣

Re: Originality

Romanelli — Wed, 4 May 2011 20:44:05 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 05/05/2011 00:44

Jhereko wrote:

I agree it's incredibly important I mean the percentage of artists that are trying to make it and the percentage that we end up hearing is like 10:1 or something and so you're point about identity is incredibly accurate and that is why originality is important - if you want to make it, set yourself apart. This is why I can not understand why the strokes have any sort of following (I just heard Angles yesterday so they're fresh in mind again) I find 0 appeal in them because they have 0 originality (Incidentally if anyone hasn't listened to tUnE-yArDs "w h o k i l l" do. the first word that comes into your head will be 'originality').

And I know I've obviously made my feelings clear on the guy (you must have watched the video you posted, how do you not want to just punch him in the throat? (and this is coming from a anti-violence person!) however I do like his point about the word being used too much in terms of have you 'heard every piece of music like that' etc.

The exact reason why The Strokes WOULD have any kind of following is that they sound like what people are familiar with, comfortable with, and want to hear more of. The masses don't want originality, and for the most part, the record companies don't want it, either. They want what they know will sell. It takes guts to sign and put money into a band that's original...what if no one likes it? A band like The Strokes are an easy call...people like what they sound like, so let's get more of that out there. It's easy to sell The Strokes to people who love bands that sound like...The Strokes.

People who seek out originality and things that are fresh, new, on the edge and rare are the minority. Unfortunate but true. Be glad you're in the minority. It's a good one to be in.

Re: Originality

Mr. Shankly — Wed, 4 May 2011 18:56:56 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 05/04/2011 22:56

Hayden wrote:

Sure, original albums are hard to come by because they're hard to make, but if we get rid of originality, music won't be made in a few years time.

Sorry, I don't understand what your point is. Can you please clarify?

Re: Originality

Hayden — Wed, 4 May 2011 18:42:52 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 05/04/2011 22:42

I don't care much for originality. If an album is good, I'll appreciate it. That's why cover versions exist. Sure, original albums are hard to come by because they're hard to make, but if we get rid of originality, music won't be made in a few years time.