Best Ever Albums

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Tue, 22 Oct 2019 12:35:58 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/22/2019 16:35

Ok, fwiw, I will be deleting this list and thread within the next hour-ish.

The thread contains mainly update announcements, various conversations (mainly relaying recommendations), and some cool quotes from composers or about composers, and some passing comments/analysis about some of them. If there is anything you want to save, now would be the time to do so. You are welcome to copy and paste/"quote" anything you want over to the new location for this list, which has been merged with the "Best Recordings" list. Here: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...&start =0

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sun, 20 Oct 2019 22:15:56 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 10/21/2019 02:15

NOTE (To All / Anyone Interested) ... ...

Want to give you a heads up that I am strongly considering deleting this list/thread, and instead having it on the same page as the "Best Recorded Performances".

This makes sense, and is a bit more user friendly as it allows one to more easily refer to the ordered list on the same page as the "Best Recorded Performances".

I am in the process of adding over 1000 recordings to that list (roughly 1/2 way done, from the top down, though the details of many of them still need to be added) ...and it is becoming so extensive and the list so huge that it is easy to get lost in it and lose sight of where one is in relation to the overall ratings/rankings when scrolling through or looking for a recording or Classical work, so having the overall "Greatest" list up top to refer to is helpful. It also shows one very quickly what is on the "recordings" list instead of having to search through it to see if your favorites are on there and so forth...

As a note: I will also be adding another version of the Best Recorded Performances list which will be ordered "alphabetically by composer, and ". So there will be one "by rating/ranking" and one "alphabetically", for two types of reference.

I have already transferred a copy of this "Greatest Classical Works" list over to the top of "Best Recorded Performances" list to see how I like it. For now this is just a "test". But I will say that it is likely I will be deleting this and making that its permanent residence, so if there are any conversations or posts or recommendations from this that you want to keep or "quote" and transfer over to that one, I recommend copying and pasting them within the next 2 days, as I will probably make this change by Tuesday. If I change my mind I'll let you know. And if you have any feedback/suggestions also, I will take that into consideration.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 01:35:21 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 04/06/2019 05:35

Along with my recent (and ongoing) dive into Opera (both revisits and new works), I am in the midst of one of my quarterly/bi-yearly unbridled obsessions with the incredible genius of Mozart.

Ive been revisiting his major symphonies (along with several different recordings of each) over the last week, as well as his Requiem, various Piano Concertos, interspersed with revisiting Don Giovanni in sections, which will soon lead to his other Opera masterpieces.

The closer you get, the more unfathomable and astonishing his works become.

This can also mean the full impact of his genius is easy to miss.

He almost always sounds flippant and effortless and almost never seems like he is "trying to produce a MASTERPIECE". And then one day ... perpetual awe and disbelief at the miracle that stands before you... (providing some very key observations have been made).
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"Mozart is the most inaccessible of the great masters."

(Artur Schnabel)

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"The most tremendous genius raised Mozart above all masters, in all centuries and in all the arts."

(Richard Wagner)

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"Before Mozart, all ambition turns to despair."

(Charles Gounod)

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"Mozart shows a creative power of such magnitude that one can virtually say that he tossed out of himself one great masterpiece after another."

(Claudio Arrau)

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"Together with the puzzle, Mozart gives you the solution."

(Ferruccio Busoni)

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"Mozart tapped the source from which all music flows, expressing himself with a spontaneity and refinement and breathtaking rightness."

(Aaron Copland)

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"I never heard so much content in so short a period."

(Pinchas Zukerman)

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"Mozart 's music is very mysterious."

(W. J. Turner)

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"Mozart's music is the mysterious language of a distant spiritual kingdom, whose marvelous accents echo in our inner being and arouse a higher, intensive life."

(E. T. A. Hoffmann)

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"Mozart is the greatest composer of all. Beethoven created his music, but the music of Mozart is of such purity and beauty that one feels he merely found it-that it has always existed as part of the inner beauty of the universe waiting to be revealed."

(Albert Einstein)

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"Give Mozart a fairy tale and he creates without effort an immortal masterpiece."

(Saint Saens)

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"What was evident was that Mozart was simply transcribing music completely finished in his head. And finished as most music is never finished. Displace one note and there would be diminishment. Displace one phrase and structure would fall. I was staring through the cage of those meticulous ink strokes at Absolute Beauty."

(Peter Shaffer)
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"I listened to the pure crystalline notes of one of Mozart's concertos dropping at my feet like leaves from the trees."

(Virgil Thompson)

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 16:30:41 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/31/2019 20:30

@ seth

re: Wagner's Ring

I've been going through Boulez's recently, his 1979/80 (Live/Video) rendition. Boulez is among my favorite conductors and one of the 20th century greats, but to me his Ring is simply a serviceable but not particularly extraordinary rendition like Levine/Solti/Barenboim.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

RoundTheBend — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 15:42:54 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/31/2019 19:42

AfterHours wrote:

Yes - up there for me too! Most likely will be 9/10-range when I get around to rating it. Not quite my favorite Mozart (Don Giovanni) but not far off.

That is a damn good one.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 14:55:45 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/31/2019 18:55

sethmadsen wrote:

Also the magic flute has some really interesting ties to the masons and German philosophy of the time. Probably my second favorite German opera.

Yes - up there for me too! Most likely will be 9/10-range when I get around to rating it. Not quite my favorite Mozart (Don Giovanni) but not far off.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sun, 31 Mar 2019 14:54:25 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/31/2019 18:54

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Main focus is Opera right now, revisiting and unearthing its masterpieces. I am also busy coming up with each work's best recordings. Addition to those I hope to find worthy Youtube videos w/ English subtitles (extra essential when initiating oneself to an Opera).

Right now I am mid going through Wagner's massive Ring Cycle -- THE epic to end all epics. Yes, roughly 13 hours (!!!) for those unfamiliar! I am about 1/2 way through the cycle on this series of listens. Ive never felt confident enough to rate The Ring in the past -- and its one of those works that maybe one can never actually be sure it isnt really an 11 out of 10 -- but I do hope to have a rating and ranking this time (Ive long thought at least 8.8+ [obviously] ... currently trying to determine if and where it stands among the works at or above 9.3...)

I also am about 1/2 way through Britten's Opera Peter Grimes, which will be a "new" one for me. Utterly amazing so far.

Awesome - it's been about 5 years since I've listened to, read, and watched the full cycle.

I highly recommend the following on top of the recording of your choosing (what are you trying out right now if you don't mind me asking?)

https://www.amazon.com/Nibelung-Andrew-...-2-catcorr

https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Nibelunge...-1-catcorr

It's a tough call. Levine's is superb, and among the best choices -- possibly the best. Consistency of performance and especially sound quality-wise, I'm not sure if Barenboim's (Beyreuth, 1992) has been surpassed. This one: https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Ring-Nibelungen-Bayreuth-Festival/dp/B005FWO3QK/ref=sr_1_2?k eywords=barenboim+wagner+ring&qid=1554058051&s=gateway&sr=8-2
The non-traditional costumes and staging may be controversial for some though, even if compelling in its unique, modernist take on the work. The performance though, is incredible.

For CD recordings, I probably lean towards the legendary Solti (Decca): https://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Ring-Nibelungen-Blu-ray-Audio/dp/B00NU2LSW4/ref=sr_1_2?keywo rds=solti+ring+wagner&qid=1554058394&s=gateway&sr=8-2

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

RoundTheBend — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:49:03 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/31/2019 01:49

Also the magic flute has some really interesting ties to the masons and German philosophy of the time. Probably my second favorite German opera.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

RoundTheBend — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:47:34 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/31/2019 01:47

AfterHours wrote:

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 21:36:22 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/31/2019 01:36

Main focus is Opera right now, revisiting and unearthing its masterpieces. I am also busy coming up with each work's best recordings. Addition to those I hope to find worthy Youtube videos w/ English subtitles (extra essential when familiarizing oneself with an Opera).

Right now I am mid going through Wagner's massive Ring Cycle -- THE epic to end all epics. Yes, roughly 13 hours (!!!) for those unfamiliar! I am about 1/2 way through the cycle on this series of listens. Ive never felt confident enough to rate The Ring in the past -- and its one of those works that maybe one can never actually be sure it isnt really an 11 out of 10 -- but I do hope to have a rating and ranking this time (Ive long thought at least 8.8+ [obviously] ... currently trying to determine if and where it stands among the works at or above 9.3...)

I also am about 1/2 way through Britten's Opera Peter Grimes, which will be a "new" one for me. Utterly amazing so far.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Wed, 27 Mar 2019 14:51:00 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/27/2019 18:51

Been revisiting two towering masterpieces of Opera: Mozart's Don Giovanni and Beethoven's Fidelio.

Fidelio has gradually grown in reputation over the decades and last two centuries to become (rightfully) hailed by many as the masterpiece that it is, despite a rather trivial story (libretto).

It is its mediocre libretto that makes Fidelio almost more overwhelming than it would be otherwise, as it is continually out-expressing, breaking the chains of, this limitation. The entire opera and each of its characters and scenes can be heard as metaphors for common Man vying for freedom (versus aristocracy, versus entrapment) ... of average literacy, banal plots, ... (and altogther, Beethoven's own plight, the sudden despair of his debilitatation, the tortuous sense of imprisonment/isolation, the desperation for love) now taken to the point of the Highest Art -- the characters and choruses as odes "for all the people" -- galvanized by emotional conviction and expressive potency so unmistakable and transcendent that how moving and overwhelmingly powerful it becomes further illustrates Beethoven was of such compositional mastery that he could seemingly grow the seeds of anything into a stunning, gobsmacking, profound masterpiece.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 02:05:31 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/25/2019 06:05

Link

Link

Link

Link

And here, Bernstein exaggerates a bit in order to make his point, but still salient:

Link

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 01:25:08 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/24/2019 05:25

"Oh you men who think or say that I am malevolent, stubborn, or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me. You do not know the secret cause which makes me seem that way to you. From childhood on, my heart and soul have been full of the tender feeling of goodwill, and I was even inclined to accomplish great things. But, think that for six years now I have been hopelessly afflicted, made worse by senseless physicians, from year to year deceived with hopes of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible). Though born with a fiery, active temperament, even susceptible to the diversions of society, I was soon compelled to isolate myself, to live life alone. If at times I tried to forget all this, oh how harshly was I flung back by the doubly sad experience of my bad hearing. Yet it was impossible for me to say to people, "Speak louder, shout, for I am deaf." Ah, how could I possibly admit an infirmity in the one sense which ought to be more perfect in me than others, a sense which I once possessed in the highest perfection, a perfection such as few in my profession enjoy or ever have enjoyed. - Oh I cannot do it; therefore forgive me when you see me draw back when I would have gladly mingled with you. My misfortune is doubly painful to me because I am bound to be misunderstood; for me there can be no relaxation with my fellow men, no refined conversations, no mutual exchange of ideas. I must live almost alone, like one who has been banished; I can mix with society only as much as true necessity demands. If I approach near to people a hot terror seizes upon me, and I fear being exposed to the danger that my condition might be noticed. Thus it has been during the last six months which I have spent in the country. By ordering me to spare my hearing as much as possible, my intelligent doctor almost fell in with my own present frame of mind, though sometimes I ran counter to it by yielding to my desire for companionship. But what a humiliation for me when someone standing next to me heard a flute in the distance and I heard nothing, or someone standing next to me heard a shepherd singing and again I heard nothing. Such incidents drove me almost to despair; a little more of that and I would have ended me life - it was only my art that held me back. Ah, it seemed to me impossible to leave the world until I had brought forth all that I felt was within me. So I endured this wretched existence - truly wretched for so susceptible a body, which can be thrown by a sudden change from the best condition to the very worst."

Ludwig van Beethoven
Heiligenstadt Testament, 1802
A letter and testament to brothers Carl and Johann Beethoven
_____________________________________________________________

This is Beethoven's own words about the turning point in his life. In this letter one can extrapolate the devastating cross he will bear and that will be expressed so passionately throughout his music and in all his masterpieces. The titanic urge to be heard and felt, an apology and frustration and ferocious struggle of acceptance for not being able to be and express himself to others, left only to do so through his music.

The 9th is so many things, not the least as if all of this has been repressed and then explodes uncontrollably in an overwhelmingly vivid expressive metamorphosis of self, transfigured by God into universal understanding.

Link

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 14:47:52 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/13/2019 18:47

After being so moved and overwhelmed by Bach's Mass in B Minor last night that it just can't be properly articulated...

... ... ...

And so... a continuing ode to Bach, perhaps the greatest artist and composer who ever lived, and in this post his supreme masterwork, the Mass In B Minor, perhaps mankind's most flawless and profound peak of Art.

"Beethoven tells you what it’s like to be Beethoven and Mozart tells you what it’s like to be human. Bach tells you what it’s like to be the universe."

Link

Link

Link

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 20:52:09 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/13/2019 00:52

"The prerequisite of contrapuntal art, more conspicuous in the work of Bach than in that of any other composer, is an ability to conceive a priori of melodic identities which when transposed, inverted, made retrograde, or transformed rhythmically will yet exhibit, in conjunction with the original subject matter, some entirely new but completely harmonious profile."

Glenn Gould Wikipedia: Glenn Gould
— Glenn Gould Reader, “So You Want to Write a Fugue”, p. 240

____________________

Of J.S. Bach:

"The most stupendous miracle in all music!"

Richard Wagner

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"Although love for music does not necessarily mean love for the composers of all the times, the true love for music, however, cannot exist without the love for Bach."

Dimitrij Kobalewski

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"Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can play weird; that’s easy. What’s hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that’s creativity."

Charles Mingus

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"Why waste money on psychotherapy when you can listen to the B Minor Mass?"

Michael Torke

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"Bach opens a vista to the universe. After experiencing him, people feel there is meaning to life after all."

Helmut Walcha

______________________

Link

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Link

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Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 13:15:05 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/12/2019 17:15

I've been immersing myself in the world of Bach. His music is frequently on my radar anyway and any foray into Classical tends to include revisits of works of his. However, at least once per year for a week or so, I can't help myself but dive in extra insatiably and attempt to assimilate the endless emotional and spiritual depth of Bach's unbelievable genius. His supreme compositional mastery, astonishing harmonic and melodic brilliance, creativity and integrity is of such a miraculous order that it always surpasses understanding even while wholly welcoming it. For the next week or two, maybe even forever, I will probably feel Bach is the greatest composer and artist whoever lived. It is a conclusion I've drawn at least once per year since 1996, but more seriously and with a more considered and experienced view, since about 2005.

Andras Schiff on Bach (Use the subtitles for English)

Link

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sat, 9 Mar 2019 15:01:37 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/09/2019 20:01

carpents wrote:

Even on the albums we disagree on (like, say, Mingus) there is an element of taste to it. (Mine being good, of course. 😉 ) I 100% respect that; if we all enjoyed the exact same things nothing would ever improve.

But your rankings are trying to get at a deeper sense of music, like you say more than just "band played; has catchy chorus: 7.5."

For sure, thank you 😁

Re: "Beethoven's sonata No. 14 is immediately evocative, and has significant cultural impact." Yes, I agree (all the 7.5s are ... though I don't really consider "cultural impact" important as a stand alone factor, as this can be too reliant upon "culture" to catch up to the art when the expression from the artist was there from the beginning of its creation, and should be observed and assimilated as such) ... All 7.5s tend to be very evocative, emotional, in very thorough alignment to my criteria. All the ratings mean (in very simple terms) is that works rated higher are even more so, more powerfully, profoundly, creatively, more expressed conviction and so forth... If one compares Moonlight to the higher rated solo piano works (probably easiest to do with Beethoven's own) the difference in these factors should become evident (provided one has assimilated them well enough). For instance, it should prove true that his Appassionata is (roughly) almost 2 times as impactful/profound when comparing the expressiveness and experience of the two overall to each other.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

carpents — Sat, 9 Mar 2019 14:20:36 GMT

Author: carpents

Posted: 03/09/2019 19:20

Even on the albums we disagree on (like, say, Mingus) there is an element of taste to it. (Mine being good, of course. 😉 ) I 100% respect that; if we all enjoyed the exact same things nothing would ever improve.

But your rankings are trying to get at a deeper sense of music, like you say more than just "band played; has catchy chorus: 7.5." Beethoven's sonata No. 14 is immediately evocative, and has significant cultural impact.

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

AfterHours — Sat, 9 Mar 2019 10:54:37 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 03/09/2019 15:54

carpents wrote:

If you're using a spreadsheet to calculate these scores, you might want to check a formula or something, because this number is wrong.

Don't underestimate how impressive I consider the 7.3-7.7's, which should be included in a "Greatest" list (as they are for my Rock, Jazz, Film, Paintings lists), and will eventually be here too... It's new placement really just further illustrates how amazing the 7.8+ entries are -- not a matter of Moonlight "becoming worse". This is common phenomena as I polish up a "Greatest" list from its earlier-to-intermediate stages of development ... realizing certain 8s are actually 7.5, etc... theyre all so amazing that it can be challenging to distinguish their incremental differences so precisely ... Just giving them all "10" would be much simpler (and the normal course of action for many). Also so many people give pretty much everything but Nickelback and Milli Vanilli "7.5 at least" which can make such a rating lose its lustre ("The band/artist played songs with verses and choruses so it's a 7.5" 🤣 )

Re: Greatest Classical Music Works of All Time (In-Progress)

carpents — Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:17:46 GMT

Author: carpents

Posted: 03/09/2019 13:17

AfterHours wrote:

Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp Minor "Quasi una fantasia" (aka, "Moonlight") - Ludwig van Beethoven (1801) 7.8/10 to 7.4/10

If you're using a spreadsheet to calculate these scores, you might want to check a formula or something, because this number is wrong.