Best Ever Albums

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Thu, 6 Apr 2017 14:40:42 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/06/2017 18:40

oh cool had no idea where it came from.

I think if I put more effort into it it'd actually be half decent. It was hard having the loop not be off (like an additional halfbeat... clicking right at the right time, etc) and then be in sync with another thing which likely was a slightly different tempo. Totally gave me more respect for this stuff. I can't imagine doing it live without screwing up... but I suppose they have the right tools and don't have it click live until they are happy with it.

That drum beat is sick, so wanted to play with that... I started out with Sly and the Family Stone's dance to the music (the part where they break down to drums and bass (let me add some bottom so the dancers just won't hide), but couldn't really think of something to go with it, so I thought, ok where is there an isolated drum track and then when I found that, somehow the intro to Apocalypse came to mind.

It starts out skipping but when I "recorded" it, it didn't do it... let it loop a bit... but still not great.

Since I don't have a DAW to isolate tracks better, I thought of parts that were isolated as just a beat with bass or something, and then something with a melody, so that's how that came together.

Also site is beta... feels like sometimes I have to refresh the page to make it work if it comes up blank.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Hayden — Thu, 6 Apr 2017 14:08:20 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 04/06/2017 18:08

sethmadsen wrote:

And did this in like 10 minutes... not great, but fun nonetheless.

Never did something like that before.

I'm guessing with a DAW you can get rid of vocals and strip it just down to the beat or?

I tried finding something that just had a beat and then the intro to this song which has a really cool thing going on...

So here's wyclef and U2:

https://www.youtubemixer.net/?ids=13153

Actually I just listened to it after closing out... had to like refresh the page and it is slightly off now... let it loop a bit? idk. I suck... haha

Let me know what you think.

That's not too shabby Seth 😄 I'm not sure how many producers use U2 for drum sampling, but it definitely worked. Thanks for giving it a spin.

Here's the track Wyclef sampled in his track:

Link

Just if you were curious.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Thu, 6 Apr 2017 01:06:10 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/06/2017 05:06

And did this in like 10 minutes... not great, but fun nonetheless.

Never did something like that before.

I'm guessing with a DAW you can get rid of vocals and strip it just down to the beat or?

I tried finding something that just had a beat and then the intro to this song which has a really cool thing going on...

So here's wyclef and U2:

https://www.youtubemixer.net/?ids=13153

Actually I just listened to it after closing out... had to like refresh the page and it is slightly off now... let it loop a bit? idk. I suck... haha

Let me know what you think.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Thu, 6 Apr 2017 00:37:25 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/06/2017 04:37

So I kinda found something:

https://www.youtubemixer.net/

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Sat, 1 Apr 2017 20:43:16 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/02/2017 00:43

I thought about this a bit more - anyone who likes the Beatles probably doesn't realize how much they used studio trickery rather than their ability to play as part of who they were. I'm not saying they couldn't play, but it would be ignorant to not understand that they too messed with tape loops, etc., even outside of Revolution #9 or whatever that song is called.

Also, I lied - the tracks where he made it sound like the tempo changes, etc. that was impressive given what I know about sampling and play back speeds and stuff.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Sat, 1 Apr 2017 14:18:49 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/01/2017 18:18

What is your stance on sampling in hip-hop? I can’t believe that in 2017 this is still a controversial topic, but apparently it is. There are people out there who will yell at producers because “they aren’t really playing the instruments” or “they stole that”, and I don’t really get that. Hip-hop is a genre based entirely on sampling. They take one thing, and make it into another. Sometimes that thing is better, and sometimes it isn’t. So, the question is do you think sampling music is (for lack of a better word) ethical, and should be respected as an art form?

Define musician, right?

I think sampling can both hinder and help an artist. Sometimes artists sample stuff that is really popular, and people actually like the sample, so they in turn like the song, so in a way, the artist actually kind of looses credit for stuff like that. But then you have stuff like this album or the previous album Tap did for ADP, and it is it's own creation mostly. There's still a bit of oh, I recognize that song and dig it, so it brings up this - hmmm... I actually like the original and that's why I dig this, not because this in of itself is awesome (not speaking of Donuts, but sampling in general).

As for the ethical side of things, as long as they are credited, get the rights, or it is more fair use. It's all good.

What’s your favourite track off of Donuts and why? I didn't have one - nothing stood out to me as something special, but definitely quality.

Did Dilla actually improve the tracks he was sampling, or just changing them? Is this a comparable thing? Kind of like my opinion stated above - I felt he more created his own thing - so it wasn't that he improved them, he took bits of them to create his own thing.

Does an artist’s imminent death affect your perceptions of an album? Also, should it? This question is not supposed to be meant with a negative perception. Personally, I believe that it should, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Not really - I mean often the artist is really experienced at that point (in this case or Bowie's) so they probably have an amazing palate to work from and therefore is often better. But not always.

Who do you believe is the greatest hip-hop producer of all time?
I don't feel qualified to answer this question, so I'm going to name the only person I know... hahaha - Dr. Dre

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Hayden — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:13:19 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/29/2017 15:13

sethmadsen wrote:

Are there any sites where you can do this online?

I want to try but I don't have the tools (perhaps just audacity or something...)

Also, I got about 10 minutes in to the album tonight cause I really wanted to learn more about this and then Little Man woke up and was partying with him.

I really appreciate the effort put into this - I learned so much about a part of music I didn't even know I could appreciate... and what I love about this ADP stuff, is it is helping me discover music I probably wouldn't dig if you just said - hey man check out this record.

It helps having context is all. I gotta admit, I think if I was just listening to this without context I'd be like ok- it's some interesting loops/samples/beats, but what about it? Oh, and if I don't suck, I think I spotted a few samples of Beastie Boys in the short listen I got in?

I don't think there are any websites online that you can make sample-based instrumentals, but if there are I can't imagine them being terribly inclusive. There might be though. Dunno.

For the most part you need a reasonable DAW. Audacity would work, but it'd be damn near impossible. Like, you can hammer in a nail with an orange, but I don't recommend it. You don't need anything extensive though. Even Garageband would suffice. I used Logic Pro for mine.

And def give the rest a listen sometime 😄 There'll definitely be some Beastie Boys samples in there (I think there are two or three on the album). I'm glad this helped you gain a greater appreciation for the album though, that's basically all I was aiming for, so that's cool to hear. 😄

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 01:35:59 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/29/2017 05:35

By the way, we only got two spots left on the ADP listings.

Anyone is welcome to sign up for it, even if you were part of the first round. We'd be discussing new albums, so the fact someone is posting again doesn't matter.

Sign up here: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...mp;start=0

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 01:33:13 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/29/2017 05:33

Hayden wrote:

Quote:

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Thanks guys 😄 Glad you liked it.

Quote:

I don't know anything about making music, so I doubt I'll be contributing to this, especially because my life is kind of hectic at the moment. Love that you included this challenge in the ADP though, I think it's awesome. Also really enjoyed your instrumental track, was pleasantly surprised by that. Great job on the ADP.

And that's fair enough. I wasn't really sure if anyone would be able to do it 😨 I was mostly looking to the community who makes their own music to see what they would come up with. Still holding out for at least one person to try. 😄

The reason for the challenge was just to see if people could gain a great appreciation for the talent behind the album.

Are there any sites where you can do this online?

I want to try but I don't have the tools (perhaps just audacity or something...)

Sounds fun, but I don't know where to start.

Also, I got about 10 minutes in to the album tonight cause I really wanted to learn more about this and then Little Man woke up and was partying with him.

I really appreciate the effort put into this - I learned so much about a part of music I didn't even know I could appreciate... and what I love about this ADP stuff, is it is helping me discover music I probably wouldn't dig if you just said - hey man check out this record.

It helps having context is all. I gotta admit, I think if I was just listening to this without context I'd be like ok- it's some interesting loops/samples/beats, but what about it? Oh, and if I don't suck, I think I spotted a few samples of Beastie Boys in the short listen I got in?

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Tha1ChiefRocka — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 01:14:50 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 03/29/2017 05:14

1. I think sampling can make or break a hip hop album. There is that nuance that a producer like Dilla had (as you mentioned) that always kept it interesting. Sometimes samples can be quite jarring if they are not implemented correctly. The legal part of it does not interest me in the slightest.

2. The Diff'rence- For a song to be so dynamic and be based on such a simple piano and horn riff is quite amazing. The way he doctors the volume of the recording to make the piano undulate across the beat is pretty cool. But really the correct answer is all of them.

3. I think all good samples expose more people to good music in general. I don't know how many people actually looked up "21st Century Schizoid Man" when Ye sampled it, but if King Crimson garnered any more attention for it then good on him. So, yes, I do believe he improved upon the songs he sampled from. It gives those long forgotten (and some well-known) tracks a second life.

4. Tragedy and death have little bearing on if I enjoy the music. It's amazing what he and others like him did, but if the music is crappy it shouldn't be praised just because it's the last thing the artist released.

5. Dilla is a legend, but I think DJ Premier and Madlib would be the two that I tend to think of as my personal favorites.

As for the challenge, I might take you up on that. I have attempted to do things like that before with fairly poor results, but maybe I can make something listenable. It truly is an art form and takes skill.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Hayden — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 11:54:41 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/27/2017 15:54

sethmadsen wrote:

Indeed. I gotta adult as it's like 1am when I'm getting to this, but indeed, indeed.

Quote:

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Thanks guys 😄 Glad you liked it.

Quote:

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

RoundTheBend — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 02:47:06 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/26/2017 06:47

dividesbyzero wrote:

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Indeed. I gotta adult as it's like 1am when I'm getting to this, but indeed, indeed.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

souplipton — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:46:47 GMT

Author: souplipton

Posted: 03/25/2017 23:46

Graeme2 wrote:

As for dilla, he was a fantastic producer but unfortunately I'm not really a massive fan of donuts.

Have to agree with this. I've always appreciated Dilla for his talent more than out of enjoyment of his music.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

souplipton — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 19:46:29 GMT

Author: souplipton

Posted: 03/25/2017 23:46

Hayden wrote:

What is your stance on sampling in hip-hop? I can’t believe that in 2017 this is still a controversial topic, but apparently it is. There are people out there who will yell at producers because “they aren’t really playing the instruments” or “they stole that”, and I don’t really get that. Hip-hop is a genre based entirely on sampling. They take one thing, and make it into another. Sometimes that thing is better, and sometimes it isn’t. So, the question is do you think sampling music is (for lack of a better word) ethical, and should be respected as an art form?

This was discussed in a previous ADP, but I'll summarize my thoughts here. I believe sampling can be a legitimate artistic musical expression if it used to create a completely new piece of music. A list of samples used should be included in info about this new piece of music, and if the sample's presence in a song is substantial enough, then writing credit should be given to the original writer. In these instances I believe that sampling is an ethical, creative option available to a producer. If sampling is used lazily, where the original song plays out mostly unaltered for long stretches, and the sample isn't recontextualized at all (as occurs in some mashup music), then I don't think that you're creating a new piece of music, and therefore it isn't a legitimate artistic statement, and if credit is not given in these cases, then it is clearly unethical in my opinion.

Hayden wrote:

What’s your favourite track off of Donuts and why?

One for Ghost, that vocal sample is so soulful and the instrumentals built around it support that so beautifully. Second place would be Time: The Donut of the Soul, because that guitar sample is treated so perfectly.

Hayden wrote:

Did Dilla actually improve the tracks he was sampling, or just changing them? Is this a comparable thing?

I don't really think it's comparable in the case of sampling as it is in the case of cover songs. Covers are an attempt to make your own version of someone else's song, whereas to me sampling is an attempt to make a completely new and different song with elements of someone else's music.

Hayden wrote:

Does an artist’s imminent death affect your perceptions of an album? Also, should it? This question is not supposed to be meant with a negative perception. Personally, I believe that it should, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Sometimes it does, however I think that often people try too hard to view aspects of an album through the lens of the last work of a dying artist. I think some artists put their thoughts about their coming death into the album (for example, I get this from Bowie on Blackstar), and in those cases it makes understanding the music easier. In the case of Donuts, I get less of that. That being said, I do think that his imminent death might have affected a different aspect of the album. The album is 31 tracks averaging 1.5 minutes each, and given how little time he had left, it's possible he left the songs as short snippets rather than completed songs because he didn't care about finishing songs as much as he cared about putting to record as many ideas as possible. His previous album was around the same length with half as many tracks, so this might explain the change. More likely though, this is simply me reading too much into things.

Hayden wrote:

Who do you believe is the greatest hip-hop producer of all time?

Top 5 in no particular order: Bomb Squad, DJ Premier, Dr Dre, RZA, and Kanye.

Hayden wrote:

Challenge/experiment: Now, this is purely for fun and I’m not entirely sure if I’m even expecting anyone to do it. I’m challenging anyone to making a sample based hip-hop instrumental and share it. That’s the challenge. Simple as that. Just wanna see what people come up with. You can send/post them however you want.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Anonymous — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:07:16 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/25/2017 22:07

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Hayden — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 18:03:19 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/25/2017 22:03

Jimmy Dread wrote:

Kudos for the work you've put into this Hayden.

Probably about time I gave this record a first isten.... :oops:

Gotta do that Jimmy. I know you aren't that big into hip-hop, but if anything Donuts is pretty atypical when being compared to the average lot. I think you'd dig at least bits of it. (See if you can catch the ESG sample 😜 )

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Jimmy Dread — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 16:40:41 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 03/25/2017 20:40

Kudos for the work you've put into this Hayden.

Probably about time I gave this record a first isten.... 🫢

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Graeme2 — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 16:28:46 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 03/25/2017 20:28

Yep I agree, I don't really see endtroducing as an out and out hip hop record like it can be portrayed by some, where donuts obviously is.
Don't think I'll ever get past Marley marl, bomb squad and RZA being my all time favourites. Though I've been listening to loads of gang Starr recently so premier would have to be high in the list.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Hayden — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 16:10:56 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/25/2017 20:10

Skinny wrote:

Man, this was a joy to read. Will be back later with something more thorough.

EDIT: In answer to the final question - RZA, Pimp C, DJ Quik.

Thanks Skinny. Looking forward to those later thoughts.

RZA's of course a top pick, but DJ Quik is a great choice too. He's always had a great vision of what he wanted his beats to sound like. As far as hip-hop goes, he's definitely just as important as Dr. Dre in creating the west-coast sound.

Quote:

Making good music with samples should have the same respect as good music made with real instruments. It takes a nation of millions...or endtroducing etc gives me goosebumps. Some boyband twats who play and write their own shit that sounds awful deserve no respect.

Great write up Hayden and that instrumental you made was good!

And thanks Graeme2, appreciate it. I thought about bringing up Endtroducing... at some point but decided against it. Despite everything, it's still not really hip-hop, and apart from being sample based, I couldn't really seem to connect it to Donuts.

And your original thought is pretty much the same as mine. If someone knows how to sample a boyband better than the boyband knows what to do with their own song, then all the best to them.

Re: ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla

Graeme2 — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 15:39:41 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 03/25/2017 19:39

Making good music with samples should have the same respect as good music made with real instruments. It takes a nation of millions...or endtroducing etc gives me goosebumps. Some boyband twats who play and write their own shit that sounds awful deserve no respect. Whether its ethical or not to sample I don't care. Just use obscure stuff, get creative and people won't even realise.
As for dilla, he was a fantastic producer but unfortunately I'm not really a massive fan of donuts. So I probably couldn't add much to the discussion on what is a much loved record.
Great write up Hayden and that instrumental you made was good!