Best Ever Albums

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Sat, 14 Jul 2018 21:18:02 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 07/15/2018 01:18

Thank you for the reminder to check out the Mahavishnu Orchestra and Weather Report.

Not sure if too late i just found this section of the forums

glynspsa — Sat, 14 Jul 2018 19:48:45 GMT

Author: glynspsa

Posted: 07/14/2018 23:48

Here's my list i am mostly a fusion fan.

1.

Bitches Brew by Miles Davis

2.

Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock

3.

The Inner Mounting Flame by Mahavishnu Orchestra

4.

A Love Supreme by John Coltrane

5.
Journey In Satchidananda by Alice Coltrane

6.
Sketches Of Spain by Miles Davis

7.
Mingus Ah Um by Charles Mingus

8.

Heavy Weather by Weather Report

9.

In A Silent Way by Miles Davis

10.

Giant Steps by John Coltrane

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

Anonymous — Wed, 4 Jul 2018 23:39:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/05/2018 03:39

For those with a record player and for fans of British improvisation, Treader recently reissued the incredibly difficult to find (and I can now say incredible) "Evan Parker with Birds" as well as Alexis Taylor's solid "Rubbed Out" on LP; they also released some excellent previously unreleased material of Spring Heel Jack with Leo Smith, Steve Noble, and Pat Thomas, titled "Hackney Road". Fingers crossed they intend to reissue "John Tchicai with Strings" and continue releasing new material!

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Sun, 1 Jul 2018 19:00:57 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 07/01/2018 23:00

RE: Astral Weeks
Yeah - I agree. While it clearly is a secondary genre, the best aspects of the album are all rooted in Jazz. Even the vocal style feels a bit more free form with minor scat-like performances. And no, it doesn't explore the music like a typical jazz ensemble would of the time.

Ha- I'm so out of touch with Jazz I thought you were referring to Miles Davis for half of that, then realized it made no sense if that were the case. Richard Davis... from the wiki:

Quote:

Among his most famous contributions to the albums of others are Eric Dolphy's Out to Lunch!, Andrew Hill's Point of Departure, and Van Morrison's Astral Weeks, of which critic Greil Marcus wrote (in The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock and Roll), "Richard Davis provided the greatest bass ever heard on a rock album."

And I'd have to agree, I love how he'd "twang the notes" and then drop a deep low note... fantastic tone... which is even more impressive knowing it all was acoustic.

RE: the list
Dude - your understanding of jazz is so helpful as I begin this journey. Thank you.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

Anonymous — Sun, 1 Jul 2018 18:17:23 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 07/01/2018 22:17

sethmadsen wrote:

What d'yall think about [Astral Weeks] being classified as Jazz?

It's an opinion that would be against the grain, but I wouldn't think anyone would be flabbergasted with some explanation. On the one hand, Van Morrison came from and continued with the rock idiom; also, Astral Weeks is not structurally similar to any of its contemporaries if it is jazz (though it is similar to earlier American popular music/jazz (and other '60s folk rock)). On the other hand, it's a bunch of (traditionally) jazz musicians that appear to be creating music that's more improvised than your typical rock album. I think the amount of improvisation or the amount of creative freedom given those musicians could influence a decision one way or another. Side note though: anything that Davis touches is gold; I prefer his work with Andrew Hill and the Creative Construction Company, on Hutcherson's Dialogue, Dolphy's Out to Lunch, and Mingus' Let My Children..., but I'll listen to an album with players I otherwise wouldn't care for just to hear his playing. His tone is as sweet and pure as people describe Scott LeFaro's tone. Probably the best classic American jazz bassist.

sethmadsen wrote:

I found this list helpful for some early jazz albums and was an ok list for all of jazz (missing some essential records in my opinion).

Yeah, a bit early for me. Love that they picked Conquistador over Unit Structures and Intuition is a nice choice for Tristano (not aware of a really great compilation outlining his most progressive efforts, though anything with the title track is a great album automatically). I get the feeling that because jazz is more of a performance art than a recorded/studio or scored one (though recordings often provide great benchmarks for a musician's progression), and because the musicians tend to have careers spanning decades (I think these go hand in hand), recordings will seem to do the art injustice sometimes because recordings are a small sample compared to their overall progression, arch, or performance history or whatever. You get a hint that perhaps whoever compiled this list has similar thoughts because they include career-spanning compilations for many of the musicians listed. I think the most satisfactory jazz list would be one of individual players, with notes on the lister's favorite recordings and performances to provide a nice cross-section of their progression/career.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Sat, 30 Jun 2018 18:16:14 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/30/2018 22:16

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/05/19/100-essential-jazz-albums

I found this list helpful for some early jazz albums and was an ok list for all of jazz (missing some essential records in my opinion).

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Sat, 30 Jun 2018 12:09:06 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/30/2018 16:09

What d'yall think about this album being classified as Jazz?

Astral Weeks by Van Morrison

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:14:02 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/21/2018 19:14

Thanks so much for your input Keith!

You are a treasure trove of info for helping me understand Jazz constructs I thought I understood... especially those past the 60s.

Also excuse my ignorance on the bowing of jazz bass... my limited experience has just never heard it before the recordings you've shown.

I think you've brought up a really interesting point that allows me to get into more experimental jazz, is it does seem like these artists are pushing every boundary possible, and its much more exciting to recognize it that way than the ignorant way I may have in the past (someone taking a dump on a saxophone and calling it music). I was maybe stuck in some western/pop music ways of trying to quickly associate myself with a melody, beat, etc... and the whole point of this is to smash those concepts and distort them and play with their boundaries. I always knew Jazz was meant to do that... but somehow never really appreciated it until your recs, so thanks!

Also last night I had a bit of a surreal experience with Ayler's spirtitual unity. I was up late walking the halls of a large hotel, and typically your brain interprets the world that the floor is the constant and everything else is moving, but somehow the music messing with the melody/music constructs somehow distorted my real reality, and I was seeing the geometry of the very symmetric hallway tweak too. It was creepy and surreal, yet fitting. Near the end of the album I was on the street next to a swamp and I've seen snakes and gators there before, yet this time it was a bit more creepy and "wild" if you will.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

Anonymous — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 18:04:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/20/2018 22:04

Glad you find it interesting! I still have a lot of difficulty in satisfactorily interpreting many of Braxton's recordings in the '80s and beyond, but that's part of what keeps on bringing me back

This is the second or third time you've mentioned really liking bowed bass (you are hearing a bass). Kind of speaking out my ass here, but I think of it as more of a European stylistic thing until the late sixties or seventies when most avant-garde bassists (worldwide) employ it frequently. So, you wouldn't be used to it listening to the American "classics" of the sixties, but wouldn't find it a thing if you familiarized yourself with improvised music after 1970. Mark Dresser, William Parker, Barry Guy, Barre Phillips, Kent Carter, Peter Kowald, Sirone, and Ernst Reijseger are always a treat to hear, and frequently use a bow; their recordings are all over my overall. From this year, there's a truly excellent recording from Brandon Lopez; he's usually great at exploring the timbres of the bass and often employs a bow. Also from this year, there's a good recording from Luke Stewart that uses a lot of bow and amplifier; similarly, Splitter Orchester's Mike Majkowski often uses a bow (and other things) to explore the possible timbres of an upright bass (his favorite thing is something like the different low-volume multiphonics heard by recording in different parts inside the bass or sth). One great recording that's also springing to mind (that's available on Spotify; most of these people's best recordings will not be), is Peter Jacquemyn and Evan Parker's Marsyas Suite; the bow here is really illustrative of the flaying.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:04:42 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/20/2018 21:04

Checking out this for the first time from Keith. I'm noticing these compositions/jams are like classical serialism or something. Really unique Jazz... not what first comes to mind when I hear the word Jazz at least. Most intriguing is the bowed bass in a high register [cello?] (to me at least). Not saying it isn't jazz, rather weaves into really interesting musical soundscapes similar to that of serialism (for what I know about it/experienced).

Really interesting stuff!

Willisau (Quartet) 1991 by Anthony Braxton

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

PurpleHazel — Wed, 6 Jun 2018 22:43:38 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 06/07/2018 02:43

sethmadsen wrote:

Private Message - Direct Message, etc.

The wording was unusual -- that's why I didn't catch that.

Quote:

Basically I was asking for a copy.

Haha, you didn't have to cop to that! 😄

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Wed, 6 Jun 2018 22:15:44 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/07/2018 02:15

Private Message - Direct Message, etc.

Basically I was asking for a copy.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

PurpleHazel — Wed, 6 Jun 2018 02:27:00 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 06/06/2018 06:27

sethmadsen wrote:

Also - and anyone can answer - why is it necessary to separate the highlife/Afrobeat genres from Jazz? When I listen to Expensive Shit from Fela Kuti, it isn't your typical soloist jazz, but I feel it is very much in the realm of jazz? idk - thoughts?

Practically all of Fela's music is an African-James Brown-jazz big band fusion, with his sociopolitical semi-raps on top. Worth pointing out that JB had a horn section too -- as did a lot of 60s R&B -- and there's an American tradition of instrumental R&B with sax solos -- King Curtis, Jimmy Forrest etc. In instrumental R&B the horn solos are more about feeling and entertainment and less about intellectual expression, and the solos in Fela's music fall somewhere in the middle of that R&B-jazz space. That being said the jazz influence is strong, but it all blurs together -- altoist Maceo Parker was featured on a lot of JB records -- JB even put out a big-band album. Also the jazz and R&B influence on African music predates Fela, so it's deeply embedded in the music. The baritone sax solos are particularly good -- makes me think of Duke Ellington's great baritone saxophonist Harry Carney.

There's a strong jazz influence on a lot of highlife, but there's also guitar-oriented highlife that has less.

Quote:

I'm curious in the recording if PM is a thing.

PM?

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Tue, 5 Jun 2018 23:11:17 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/06/2018 03:11

That was a gold post.

No but seriously - thanks for keeping this alive with more discussion. That's really my hope instead of just a game. Life's been crazy but I intend to share more from the Ken Burn's special as I watch more of it (even if it's just one point of view).

Also I'm really glad you brought the Lörrach / Paris 1966 by Albert Ayler album to our attention. It was a unique ride for sure and I saw a new side. I am curious how Spiritual Unity by Albert Ayler would've faired in the competition.

I'm curious in the recording if PM is a thing.

Thanks for sharing your experience as you keep getting further and further into the world of Jazz (I remember you making a comment about how since you've joined your charts/musical journey has really drifted heavily in that direction).

For me these are just starts - I intend to continue my journal until I get into the Jazz era and really deep dive at that time to at least 100 albums - so I'll know I'll be reviewing your charts for more and more, as well as this thread.

Also - and anyone can answer - why is it necessary to separate the highlife/Afrobeat genres from Jazz? When I listen to Expensive Shit from Fela Kuti, it isn't your typical soloist jazz, but I feel it is very much in the realm of jazz? idk - thoughts?

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

Anonymous — Tue, 5 Jun 2018 18:14:19 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/05/2018 22:14

Updated my overall and 2018 charts today, adding a bit less than 30 free improvisation and avant-garde jazz releases to the database. The overall additions reflect a recent focus on bass, cello, and violin. Really loving wading through the recent discoveries of Barry Guy and Maya Homburger's Maya Recordings label, which jumps back and forth across the line between classical and jazz. Also really loving the recent discovery of Peter Kowald solos and duos. Still need to catch up listening to a lot from this year but everyone interested in this music needs to start tracking Astral Spirits, their catalog gets stronger and stronger each year; been really enjoying what I've heard from their 10 or so albums from this year so far and really itching to get to the rest. Been listening to quite a bit of Crispell/Guy/Lytton too but it's not represented in my charts, yet.

Recently saw Anthony Braxton three nights in a row performing his ZIM music. Saxophones, trumpet/cornet/trombone, tuba, accordion, violin, and two harps. Possibly the best performance I've ever seen. Each night got progressively more insane; 55, 75, and and 75 minute sets. My wife recorded it and I can distribute bootlegs to those interested shortly. I'm not quite sure how this fits in to his previous compositional styles; the group appeared to play between two compositions per night (possibly 3) with some pictorial notation interspersed, so it seems a bit more tame than the '90s as far as collaging compositions. So angular and alien yet at times swingin and anchored in traditional tunes; swayed between tones and sounds, composition and improvisation. Braxton is still a master. Been listening to two recently acquired box sets from him a lot lately too: Quintet (Tristano) 2014 and Sextet (Parker) 1993, the latter of which is from this year. Still trying to get into Echo Echo Mirror House Music material but I'm finding it difficult to get into compared to his previous stuff and this newer ZIM material.

Unfortunately missed a Brandon Lopez show as well as a Daniel Carter/Andrew Barker show these past couple of months. However, looking forward to not missing a Jaime Branch's Fly or Die and Jeff Parker's New Breed double bill as well as Tim Berne's Broken Shadows in the next week or two.

Really glad Lorrach/Paris made it to around the middle of the list. It's not the canonical Ayler choice but it's the best choice 😉

Thank you, Seth, for trying to stimulate discussion around this music!

Also, one of my submissions early on in this thread was Braxton's 1991 Willisau Quartet, which was notoriously difficult to find (seen >$600 for some CDs), but the studio half has recently been reissued by Hat Hut and is available on Spotify. They've also reissued Myra Melford's second set of Alive in the House of Saints and Matthew Shipp's Symbol Systems; also on Spotify

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

YoungPunk — Sat, 2 Jun 2018 16:23:52 GMT

Author: YoungPunk

Posted: 06/02/2018 20:23

sethmadsen wrote:

the only thing I enjoyed playing in jazz band was the girl from ipanema and green onions.

Our middle school conductor was a genius level teacher.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

RoundTheBend — Fri, 1 Jun 2018 23:38:16 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 06/02/2018 03:38

the only thing I enjoyed playing in jazz band was the girl from ipanema and green onions.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

YoungPunk — Fri, 1 Jun 2018 22:46:08 GMT

Author: YoungPunk

Posted: 06/02/2018 02:46

Also I was a kid so they might of been brainwashing me that I was having a good time and I really wasn't. JK. But I think you are right, the stuff I was playing in middle school would probably drop dead in this competition...

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

PurpleHazel — Fri, 1 Jun 2018 22:11:29 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 06/02/2018 02:11

YoungPunk wrote:

I agree with the order but this is not the best Jazz music, with the possible exception of John Coltrane. I remember when I played Jazz in middle school it was so fun. I can't imagine having fun if I was playing these. I remember we watched a movie about Dizzy Gillespie...

If fun playing the music was the standard for the best albums, then AC/DC would be considered better than Rush (I actually do prefer AC/DC, but I know you're a Rush fan :)). Black Saint & the Sinner Lady and A Love Supreme are challenging albums; they weren't intended to be "fun" to play.

Actually I'd think "It's About That Time," which takes up a majority of Side 2 of In a Silent Way would be fun to play. It's a great riff.

Some of Diz's music is fun to listen to, but I don't know about playing it.

Re: Jazz: Competition & Discussion

YoungPunk — Fri, 1 Jun 2018 19:08:13 GMT

Author: YoungPunk

Posted: 06/01/2018 23:08

I agree with the order but this is not the best Jazz music, with the possible exception of John Coltrane. I remember when I played Jazz in middle school it was so fun. I can't imagine having fun if I was playing these. Unfortunately I don't remember what we were doing in middle school. I remember we watched a movie about Dizzy Gillespie...