Best Ever Albums

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Anonymous — Thu, 6 Sep 2018 02:08:06 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2018 06:08

quote from one of the articles given by RockyRaccoon:

"Albums unravel stories, exercise patience, and nurture contemplation in ways that connect listeners to artists in ways that streamed playlists and singles simply cannot achieve" (Shea Kopp : is the album dying ? 2015)

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

mickilennial — Wed, 5 Sep 2018 18:36:40 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 09/05/2018 22:36

An album for me is the stroke of every color in a painting.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Anonymous — Wed, 5 Sep 2018 17:15:17 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/05/2018 21:15

To me, an album is something that a playlist is not: a narrative, a subjective journey.
In that sense, even a filler song has its charm, like a little pause in the journey.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

RockyRaccoon — Tue, 4 Sep 2018 13:51:07 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/04/2018 17:51

StreetSpirit wrote:

Well of course album sales are shrinking given people stream music as much as they do, but that doesn't mean interest in the album format is dropping. My point of including the article on surging record sales is to show that interest in the album format is just fine. People who buy vinyl are interested in an album, not a single, and while vinyl isn't everything, the upward trend is certainly showing that the album isn't dying.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Luigii — Tue, 4 Sep 2018 11:26:22 GMT

Author: Luigii

Posted: 09/04/2018 15:26

Romanelli wrote:

Yann wrote:

Many albums are too long these days! See Fleet Foxes : almost great, but some repetitions of boring parts here and there.
Also many albums have only two or three good songs on it..

I believe I said the exact same thing in about 1988...

No the real problem is there just way more projects coming out these days that we will have t pick what we listen to.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Romanelli — Tue, 4 Sep 2018 10:45:04 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 09/04/2018 14:45

Yann wrote:

Many albums are too long these days! See Fleet Foxes : almost great, but some repetitions of boring parts here and there.
Also many albums have only two or three good songs on it..

I believe I said the exact same thing in about 1988...

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Anonymous — Tue, 4 Sep 2018 07:34:43 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/04/2018 11:34

Many albums are too long these days! See Fleet Foxes : almost great, but some repetitions of boring parts here and there.
Also many albums have only two or three good songs on it..

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Luigii — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 19:58:34 GMT

Author: Luigii

Posted: 09/03/2018 23:58

StreetSpirit wrote:

^^^Rocky, that article only says that Vinyl sales are up.

But that atricle fails to say overall album sales, regardless of format, are going down:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273308/music-album-sales-in-the-us/

I don't believe the album is dying, but the monetary incentive is. And the audience of album listeners seems to be shrinking. Again I don't think either will ever entirely disappear, for reasons mentioned in Romanelli's well-written post from yesterday.

Anyway, are we getting off-topic from The Guardian article?

I think we are.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

CA Dreamin — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 19:10:29 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 09/03/2018 23:10

^^^Rocky, that article only says that Vinyl sales are up.

But that atricle fails to say overall album sales, regardless of format, are going down:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/273308/music-album-sales-in-the-us/

I don't believe the album is dying, but the monetary incentive is. And the audience of album listeners seems to be shrinking. Again I don't think either will ever entirely disappear, for reasons mentioned in Romanelli's well-written post from yesterday.

Anyway, are we getting off-topic from The Guardian article?

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

RockyRaccoon — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 18:45:25 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/03/2018 22:45

Here's what I know - people asking if the album is a dead, irrelevant format has been going on for a decade, easily. And yet, the album is still alive and little has changed.

2008 - The Album is Dead...

2009 - Record breaking: is the album format dead?

2010 - 6 Reasons Why The Album Format Died

2012 - Billy Corgan: The Album Is Dead

2013 - Katy Perry’s ‘Prism’ a Good Example of How Albums Don’t Work Anymore

2014 - Is the Album Dying? An Analysis

2016 - The Album Is Dying-- And Good Riddance

2017 - Is the album dying?

2018 - Sheryl Crow: Albums Are A Dying Art Form

If the album is dying, it has been an excrutiatingly slow death.

MEANWHILE:

U.S. Vinyl Album Sales Hit Nielsen Music-Era Record High in 2017

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

albummaster — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 04:08:57 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 09/03/2018 08:08

Thank you to everyone for disagreeing with me as it's great to hear some voices of reason! The change in how music is being consumed and the focus away from traditional release formats (album/single etc) has most certainly disrupted the industry and I suppose I am still trying to get my head around where this is all leading and how it might relate to BEA. These aren't new thoughts, but have been whirring around in my head for some time (particularly as I'm spending most days rewriting the site). The sole aim is to try and create something here that has the most utility for people that also love the format, and not to be left behind (or made redundant) by changes happening around us (including changes in technology). The site was only created in the first place because of my love of music albums and this hasn't diminished.

Everybody would argue for a different sequence in the overall chart regardless of the current list (that's what makes lists fun) but I agree with a lot of what has been said that there should possibly be more of a bias towards charts that have been updated more recently (overall charts a year or two old should be worth more than overall charts updated eight years ago as it will take into account all of those releases that didn't exist when the older chart was created). I also agree that racial/gender biases are possibly partly down to the demographic that visits the site which are possibly being reinforced by the content of the overall chart which, if it could be freshened up, might help to improve this (we'll never alleviate the western music bias and just have to accept this for the time being).

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Anonymous — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 03:36:10 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/03/2018 07:36

That said, I'm not really against the discussion which has taken place. Any discussion is good discussion for the most part 😄

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Anonymous — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 03:33:30 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/03/2018 07:33

Just in fairness to the article, some of the points being disputed are NOT actually made in it 🤣 ie that...
1)People should feel obliged to listen to a more diverse range of music
2)That this is particularly true of BEA users
3)That BEA is not inclusive
3)That the album is a dying art-form or is becoming irrelevant

I just make this point as some of the discussion in this thread seems to obscure reflection on the potentially helpful points that the article DOES actually make.

I am not the Guardian writer 🤣

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Anonymous — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 03:31:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/03/2018 07:31

Romanelli wrote:

And whether or not you allow yourself to be exposed to different kinds of music is an individual choice, and doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else.

I'll just say this, because I feel like this is probably targeted at what I and some other users are saying:

I think there's a merit in admiring people with wide and varied taste in music across genres and cultures. When I come to BEA, I'm almost always reminded how habitual and narrow my own listening habits are, and I look up to the members on this site that I see breaking away from that comfort zone and have albums of all colors to recommend and discuss.

I, personally, think I would be a better person if I aspired to be more like some members here, because that's the community I want to see BEA and the wider internet become.

I look up to that friend that's always talking about new foods and cuisines vs that friend that orders chinese every night. We're all better for different things, and we all bring our learning to the table. Everyone benefits from self-reflection, self-criticism, self-improvement.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Hayden — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 00:25:35 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 09/03/2018 04:25

Quote:

Lots of factors added together just don't bode well for the future of the format. The ability to pick and mix tracks from vast online libraries (such as Spotify etc) has changed the listening habits of millions of people. Many people just don't feel the need to purchase individual albums for themselves when they are available instantly in these online libraries, which also means artists don't have the same monetary incentive to produce the material that they might have done a couple of decades ago. I think albums will always exist as a creative outlet for music artists, but the streaming services don't reward artists particularly well. I hope something will change to make album production more attractive to artists otherwise the site will become even more of a museum to a bygone age.

Sorry AM, I'm with Rocky & Romanelli on this one. I hate saying this, but I don't think I agree with a single thing you said 🤣 I actually think Spotify has helped the album format, they've become a lot more accessible and now artists are getting paid (yes, miserably, but PAID) for 'free' listening, opposed to just pirating an album which... well... they don't get paid for. Maybe I'm thinking of it from an artist's standpoint rather than a consumer, but I think it's better for both. Yeah, you can make playlists, but full albums are ready at the press of a button.

Yes, there's the chart-hungry artists out there (especially... and unfortunately... in the hip-hop world) who take advantage of the format, but I've found they've rarely been rewarded with praise. They're an unfortunate bunch, but there are plenty of musicians who do truly care about using album formats.

And, like... come on AM, just look at the 2018 chart. PLENTY of albums. Perhaps too many. I don't think anyone could listen to them all in a lifetime. This isn't even close to a museum (perhaps a nice music-themed gallery 😄 )

Quote:

“For what it’s worth, I love Neutral Milk Hotel more than I love Nas, but I’d have to be a fool to claim their In the Aeroplane Over the Sea trumps Illmatic for “greatness”.”

The author seems to be conflating “greatness” with cultural significance.

Possibly... like, I dig both albums, I think they're 10/10's, but is In The Aeroplane Over The Sea less culturally significant than Illmatic? Particularly looking at the massive independent scene from '99-'07. I'd say with ease that both are important/influential/significant, but I don't think I could pick a clear-cut winner 🤔

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

RockyRaccoon — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 00:09:36 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/03/2018 04:09

Also I’d strongly disagree that the album is dying. This isn’t the iTunes era of hit singles anymore. Are singles important? Of course, but they were important back when people were using 45’s. People have been bemoaning and predicting the “death” of the album format for decades and what’s happened? It hasn’t died, and in fact, more people are growing increasingly interested in it (just look at vinyl sales). The album isn’t dead, the people who cared about it in the past are the same type of people who care about it now.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

RockyRaccoon — Mon, 3 Sep 2018 00:05:07 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 09/03/2018 04:05

I saw this thread had 12 pages and nope’d outta that, but I mean, I assume someone mentioned the main flaw with this article, and it comes from this quote:

“For what it’s worth, I love Neutral Milk Hotel more than I love Nas, but I’d have to be a fool to claim their In the Aeroplane Over the Sea trumps Illmatic for “greatness”.”

The author seems to be conflating “greatness” with cultural significance. I’ll admit, this was something I struggled with when I first started making charts on this site. I’d say “how can I truly say this album that I personally love but isn’t all that special/well-known is ‘greater’ than this critically-acclaimed album?” And then I realized that my top-100 chart is just that—mine. It’s my favorites, my best albums of all time.

This author seems to think we all create charts objectively when we’re not necessarily doing that. Cultural significance can be objectively measured to an extent, how “good” an album is cannot, and that seems to be something the author of this article doesn’t really understand.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

dihansse — Sun, 2 Sep 2018 16:05:47 GMT

Author: dihansse

Posted: 09/02/2018 20:05

I couldn’t agree more with Seth ánd Romanelli. There hasn’t been a year where I listened to so many new albums for the two reasons that both of you mentioned: the number of new releases is just awesome I think in every genre conceivable (also in that “dying” genre I like most: guitar music); aaand: all that music is just available at a mouse click be it on spotify, Apple music or another service;
So why complain: there haven’t been better times to discover albums (both old and new) than these times; and this great site is just a fantastic vehicle to meet like minded album fans: THANK YOU BEA and AM!!!!

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

RoundTheBend — Sun, 2 Sep 2018 16:02:32 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 09/02/2018 20:02

I think Romanelli said in a different way what my fried brain was trying to say.

Well said.

Re: BEA getting called out by The Guardian

Romanelli — Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:40:04 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 09/02/2018 19:40

albummaster wrote:

I have to pretty strongly disagree with your statement about this site becoming a "museum to a bygone age". Just numbers alone...how many albums have been added to the database in the last month? And how many 2018 albums have already been added here? What the traditional album means to an artist and their income is changing, but what is not changing is that artists are still recording albums. Artists used to tour to support albums. Now artists release albums to support their tours, which is where they are making real money these days. But the album is still very much in play. And I believe that while listening habits may be changing, the album is still an important part of it.

I also believe that what BEA does is important. I have never seen this site as being for the mainstream. This isn't for everyone, for a number of reasons. Not everyone is into the album. That has ALWAYS been true. Not everyone is a collector, which has also always been true. And the reality is, most people do not like making lists of things. But people like us...the weird, the mutants, the odd people who live and breathe albums (there have always been this group that we are part of...and it has always been relatively small) need a place like this. We aren't just into music...we are into albums. What's the best ever album? Well...it's not the most important question about music that there is. And it's not a question that everyone wants to know the answer to, and it's not the question that everyone wants to answer. But it's important to the kind of people we are. Which, I believe, is why the relatively small group of mainstays sticks around.

Is BEA ever going to be huge...like RYM? Like Discogs? Hopefully, not. It doesn't need to be. And the question that BEA asks at the core of everything is one that will keep it smaller...and because that question is so specific with such a vague answer, it will remain important. Thank God we don't have the forum communities (and the nightmares that go with it) that RYM does. And thank God that we don't have the massive load of releases that Discogs does (example: A Hard Day's Night has 488 versions on Discogs. It has one on BEA.)

BEA is part of keeping the album alive. I don't believe that it's dying at all...I just believe that the role of the album is changing. And BEA plays its own important role in the world of the album. It may not be for everyone (it never will be), but it is an important role.

Does this guy at The Guardian know what he's talking about when he calls out BEA? He does not. People like and listen to what they allow themselves to be exposed to. And whether or not you allow yourself to be exposed to different kinds of music is an individual choice, and doesn't make anyone better or worse than anyone else.