Best Ever Albums

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

cestuneblague — Tue, 5 Mar 2019 12:03:55 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/05/2019 17:03

Malkmus Wins

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

baystateoftheart — Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:37:38 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/04/2019 18:37

Skinny wrote:

Also, baystate, just out of interest, what is it that makes you think that this is a better song than 'Roaches'? Just genuinely interested.

This tournament was my first time hearing Roaches. I’d need to spend more time with it to say with confidence which song is better and why.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Mon, 4 Mar 2019 11:19:20 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/04/2019 16:19

Also, baystate, just out of interest, what is it that makes you think that this is a better song than 'Roaches'? Just genuinely interested.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Repo — Mon, 4 Mar 2019 07:13:02 GMT

Author: Repo

Posted: 03/04/2019 12:13

Skinny wrote:

Yeah but people - myself included - love a catchy, mid-paced Malkmus

Exactly. Malkmus is like a god for me. Pavement, Sebadoh & GBV were like my holy trinity in my early twenties. Malkmus has tons of enjoyable releases since leaving Pavement & weirdly better live than Pavement ever was.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Mon, 4 Mar 2019 07:05:41 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/04/2019 12:05

baystateoftheart wrote:

Damn. I have to admit I am a bit surprised by this result. Personally, I can't complain with the first round, as my nominees went 3-1, but Black Thought deserves better.

Yeah but people - myself included - love a catchy, mid-paced Malkmus ramble. There are plenty of songs in this tournament I'd have voted against with this Black Thought song; it's just unfortunate it came up against this one. My picks have all been up against weaker songs than either of these.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

travelful — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 19:03:59 GMT

Author: travelful

Posted: 03/04/2019 00:03

baystateoftheart wrote:

Damn. I have to admit I am a bit surprised by this result.

I'm not.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

baystateoftheart — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 15:05:29 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/03/2019 20:05

Damn. I have to admit I am a bit surprised by this result. Personally, I can't complain with the first round, as my nominees went 3-1, but Black Thought deserves better.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 09:47:32 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/03/2019 14:47

baystateoftheart wrote:

Black Thought's life story is subtext to a lot of his verses even if he doesn't often address it point-blank. Would you feel his music had more personality if he more often made the subtext the text?

I admire Black Thought. He's a technically excellent rapper who manages to fit a lot of heavy content and clever wordplay into his verses, and arguably no other rapper could've slotted so comfortably into and subsequently anchored The Roots' experiments with so much consistency for so long. He is a model of dignity in an increasingly undignified world, and people could do a lot worse than listening to his intelligent, often poignant lyrics. He also has a voice that is strangely indistinct and a slightly robotic flow. His lyrics are often worthy but rarely quotable. I know this probably sounds odd, but I think his reliable excellence is probably what stops me from caring about him; there's no sense of tension, no sense of unpredictability, no flair. I am grateful for his existence but never thrilled by his presence. However, I respect the opinion of anybody who thinks he's one of the best rappers ever, because he's supremely talented and thoughtful. He's just not my cup of tea.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

baystateoftheart — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 09:32:50 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/03/2019 14:32

Skinny wrote:

suffers from the same problem as every Black Thought song or verse: it's all extremely competent, but starved of personality, rendering it very forgettable.

Black Thought's life story is subtext to a lot of his verses even if he doesn't often address it point-blank. Would you feel his music had more personality if he more often made the subtext the text?

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

mickilennial — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 09:23:43 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/03/2019 14:23

a little bit

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

baystateoftheart — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 09:23:11 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/03/2019 14:23

Gowi wrote:

on another, semi-related point -- i really, really hate this line of thinking:

Quote:

which white people like something in order to deride black music that wasn’t made for white consumption in the first place.

the idea of "white consumption" seems ridiculous to me and for those who've known me since the old BEA days should know why

Hmm. I'm not saying that anyone should feel sheepish about listening to or "consuming" anyone else's music on account of race. My point was just that Black Thought doesn't make music with an express aim of commercial viability among a white audience. Does that clarify things?

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

baystateoftheart — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 09:19:08 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/03/2019 14:19

Skinny wrote:

Teenagers aren't BAWPs, for the most part. We are, though.

Wow, that's a bombshell admission! Props for the honesty.

A lot of those teenagers grow up and don't shed their listening habits. I'm thinking of all the business majors at college who thought they were cool and different for listening to Lil Wayne. My point is they're boring too, albeit in a different way. And more centrally, that I don't really agree with using the level of boringness of someone's white fanbase to pigeonhole a black artist.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

mickilennial — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 09:03:59 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/03/2019 14:03

on another, semi-related point -- i really, really hate this line of thinking:

Quote:

which white people like something in order to deride black music that wasn’t made for white consumption in the first place.

the idea of "white consumption" seems ridiculous to me and for those who've known me since the old BEA days should know why

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 08:59:23 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/03/2019 13:59

Gowi wrote:

one of the "mostly only on the internet" things, isn't it

Precisely.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

mickilennial — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 08:58:47 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/03/2019 13:58

Skinny wrote:

They can be, but it's way less likely.

one of the "mostly only on the internet" things, isn't it

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 08:54:38 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/03/2019 13:54

Gowi wrote:

are you saying there can't be teenage BAWPs (i prefer the term 'backpacker' still, too)

They can be, but it's way less likely.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

mickilennial — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 08:53:18 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/03/2019 13:53

Skinny wrote:

Teenagers aren't BAWPs, for the most part. We are, though.

are you saying there can't be teenage BAWPs (i prefer the term 'backpacker' still, too)

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 08:30:37 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/03/2019 13:30

baystateoftheart wrote:

Well, the last few times he’s trended, it’s been on the strength of adoration from black Twitter. Love to use which white people like something in order to deride black music that wasn’t made for white consumption in the first place. Suburban white teens who want to feel edgy are a major audience for a lot of trap rap that you wouldn’t call BAWP-hop, but are they any less boring really?

Teenagers aren't BAWPs, for the most part. We are, though.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

baystateoftheart — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 08:23:04 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/03/2019 13:23

Skinny wrote:

It's BAWP-hop in the extreme.

Re: Closed- 2018 BTT- Black Thought v Middle America

Skinny — Sun, 3 Mar 2019 05:15:55 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/03/2019 10:15

"As soul/soleful as orthopedics" is a terrible punchline. Besides that, 'Twofifteen' is good, but suffers from the same problem as every Black Thought song or verse: it's all extremely competent, but starved of personality, rendering it very forgettable. I've listened to this song a number of times, and yet upon pressing play this time I realised I didn't remember anything about it. It's very good, very tasteful, very noble, but ultimately very unexciting. It's BAWP-hop in the extreme.

'Middle America' is one of Malkmus' best post-Pavement songs, cute and effortlessly catchy, with some fun lyrics. Would get my vote in most matches, to be honest, and does so here.