Best Ever Albums

Re: Noise Vs Melody

elo269megv — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 12:40:19 GMT

Author: elo269megv

Posted: 04/11/2019 16:40

Michael1981 wrote:

Yes, I think I'm similar. I'm sort of a melody addict and this is what fascinates me and gets its hooks into me. Though I might be overlooking the element of noise in some of the bands I listen to. This thread is making me think that actually my interest in melody has distracted me from the potential value of noise in music. Been listening to Master of Puppets this week (first time I've listened to metal of any description in 25 years or so)and its really surprised me how great I think something heavy like this is.

Awesome! I think there's a very common misconception with metal and heavier genres of music that they lack melody when often I've found they can be just as melodic as any other type of music. Metallica has a ton of melody and harmony interplay between guitar players. Judas Priest and Iron Maiden are other classic metal bands coming to mind that have tons of melody. Furthermore, I have found that three pieces (ie. one guitar, one bass, one drummer regardless of who sings) are usually ALWAYS very rhythmic and melodic (they're just a rhythm section after all). Some "noisy" bands that are also melodic include Pavement, Unwound, Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Alice in Chains, and I've realized I listed all 90s bands so how about Black Sabbath, early Arctic Monkeys... you get the point. The mixing of melody and noise is beautiful to my ears.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:18:06 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/11/2019 12:18

svk4ever wrote:

But to be honest: Melodic music and simple love song lyrics.... Ähm... I don't need that ****! Won't waste any time for such rubbish!

😈 😈 😈

But please spare a thought for God only knows by the Beach boys!

Yeah I agree though-ether something moves you or it doesn't. I don't tend to focus so much on the literal meaning of songs but I guess that this can sometimes be the thing that gets its hooks into people.

This could sort of morph into a "controversial and problematic lyrics" discussion-given that some noisy bands certainly divide opinion in their lyrical content- but that's probably a different conversation.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 08:02:39 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/11/2019 12:02

svk4ever wrote:

Rather interesting question…

I can't decide which one is noiser… CHILDREN OF BODOM: Hat Crew Deathroll or HAGGARD: Eppur Si Muove…. On the other Hand: Is RUNRIG's The Cutter And The Clan more melodic than DIRE STRAITS Love Over Gold?

On my opinion: Melody is defintly not the most important factor in enjoyying music. If so, it would be rather easy.... Listen to the Beatles, the Beach Boys, Modern Talking... and you'll be lucky...

My main factor is: Music has to move me.... that can be melodic music, but it can be as well noisy… and it also depends on the message.

Just listen to "The Last Of Pagan Blood" from AMON AMARTH. Definitly not melodic, but because of it's message one of my favorites… Or "Earth Warrior" from OMNIA... I definitly don'it like the Reggae rhythm! But I love that song, because of it's intention and it's message….

For me it's not a question of melodic or not melodic... it's simply: Is that music relevant to me and my life...

(Just listening to melodic noise from ELUVEITIE)

Excuse my ignorance- but I'm presuming these bands are of the death metal variety? I guess if ever there was a sub-genre that values noise over melody!!!

Not sure if I could ever enjoy bands as heavy as this-but I surprised myself by enjoying thrash metal this week. Yeah, I think there is something primal and moving in heavy music and yeah I guess its not distinct from melody at all and presumably the better bands are mixing powerful noise and melody together.

I even find something kind of soothing in the low distorted tones of some heavy bands, which I totally wasn't expecting. Reminds me of Craola's point about noise and sleep. Maybe there's just something about those frequencies that is soothing-like sitting in one of those vibrating massage chairs!

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 07:49:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/11/2019 11:49

elo269megv wrote:

The reason I don't listen to true noise music is because there is nothing to latch on to. Nothing that draws me in or brings me back for more. Most of my favorite artists however incorporate some form of "noise" in their recordings. The Smashing Pumpkins are probably my favorite band and they're loud, noisy, and in your face, they dabble in what I'd consider "noise" for only a handful of songs.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 07:43:48 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/11/2019 11:43

TimeLion wrote:

I think the aesthetic appeal of noise *as* noise is distinct from the appeal of music that simply clashes with a listener's previous tonal experiences. The harshness of noise provides an edge that I find invigorating, in part because it frees me from the structural constraints of traditional forms of music, however complex that music may be.

Yeah, I agree with KKS and Tap's points that there are both measurable and culturally relative aspects in the perception of noise. But also, yeah I agree that noise can be a deliberate artistic intention as well-maybe to try to disturb or shock the listener. And \i guess this changes over time as well as culture. What was noisy to listeners in the 50s probably is not so noisy now.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 07:31:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/11/2019 11:31

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

Can't there be both?

Yeah. That's my bad for the confusing 'vs' in the title of the thread. For a start 'Noise pop' like the Vaselines has a strong emphasis on both.

I'm more thinking if one has a primacy in people's preferences.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Thu, 11 Apr 2019 07:23:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/11/2019 11:23

Gonna have a go at responding to a few points...

AfterHours wrote:

Between noise and melody, in terms of which is "better", it really matters which emotion/concept the artist is trying to relay. Obviously noise can be a better reflection for certain types of intensity or violence, ferocious physical or environmental action, apocalyptic destruction (etc) while melody is often a better reflection of beauty or nature or the human singing voice (etc).

Yeah-I think my 'Noise vs Melody' was a bit misleading as I totally agree it depends on the intentions and also the two can co-exist. I just notice a big emphasis towards melody on my own charts which really struck me as interesting.

Good points about beauty vs violence/destruction-I think this is on the same lines of the kind of "opposites" I was thinking of. Got me thinking how melody seems to links to romanticism whilst noise is more primal. Maybe the two thinks satisfy a different part of the brain- one that seeks order, patterns and beauty and the other that is more primal and destructive and seeks a catharsis of some kind(a sort of ego vs id thing for anyone interested in psychodynamic terms-sorry getting way more poncy than originally intended but struck me as an interesting thought).

Re: Noise Vs Melody

svk4ever — Mon, 8 Apr 2019 18:16:19 GMT

Author: svk4ever

Posted: 04/08/2019 22:16

Hi Michael,

just want to add a few thoughts…

For me there's a difference between catchy and melodic...

But I think... the average listener to music has a formula... it's catchy, it's melodic, it sounds nice...

Ähm... for me: It's catchy, its's melodic, it's easy accessable... leave it to the mainstream! It sucks!

As I mentioned before: Music has to move me... It's the combination of it's message and it's sound. Doesn't matter if it's True Norwegian Black Metal or Ambient...

But to be honest: Melodic music and simple love song lyrics.... Ähm... I don't need that ****! Won't waste any time for such rubbish!

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:32:38 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/08/2019 21:32

Thanks for the thoughtful and interesting points on this thread. Definitely challenging my perceptions of the value of noise and melody in music a fair bit. Quite a few things I want to respond to once I've got time later in the week...

Re: Noise Vs Melody

svk4ever — Mon, 8 Apr 2019 17:22:35 GMT

Author: svk4ever

Posted: 04/08/2019 21:22

Michael1981 wrote:

What is the noisiest album in your top 100 and which is your most melodic (by your own definition/ judgement)?

Also, I'm wondering about...

Are noise and melody opposites?

If an album is genuinely very noisy can it still be great music? If yes, what is the value in noise?

What value do you place on melody- is melody the most important factor in enjoyment of music? (For me yes, but I'm curious to see what other people think).

I'll try to answer my own questions once I've slept on it.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

elo269megv — Mon, 8 Apr 2019 13:53:52 GMT

Author: elo269megv

Posted: 04/08/2019 17:53

A lot of my top 100 albums are loud and noisy, but none of them are truly "noise" in my opinion. TRUE noise is just sound, fluctuation of pitch, feedback, or hum. Noise is atonal and sometimes rather harsh. The reason I don't listen to true noise music is because there is nothing to latch on to. Nothing that draws me in or brings me back for more. Most of my favorite artists however incorporate some form of "noise" in their recordings. The Smashing Pumpkins are probably my favorite band and they're loud, noisy, and in your face, they dabble in what I'd consider "noise" for only a handful of songs. My mom thinks Black Sabbath is noisy, but she also thinks the same about most rap music. I guess its a subjective thing...

The noisiest album in my top 100 as of rn is probably Refused "The Shape Of Punk To Come". Lots of screaming and balls-to-the-wall instrumentation. Very hardcore... But another person might look at my list and say MBV, Dinosaur Jr, or even Slipknot. I look at something like MWPP by Animal Collective as a "noisy" album but not in the same sense as the others.

Most melodic on my list is tough because I pretty much think all these albums are great and have some sort of melody. If I wanted to make it easy I'd say Sgt. Peppers and call it good. I could argue almost any one of my top 100 (other than a handful, like Refused) as being melodic. In terms of appealing vocals and harmonies, I'll say In Rainbows or Parallel Lines

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Tha1ChiefRocka — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 13:15:52 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 04/07/2019 17:15

I still haven't listened to the whole thing, but that's an amazing album right above me.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

TimeLion — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 13:13:47 GMT

Author: TimeLion

Posted: 04/07/2019 17:13

I think the aesthetic appeal of noise *as* noise is distinct from the appeal of music that simply clashes with a listener's previous tonal experiences. The harshness of noise provides an edge that I find invigorating, in part because it frees me from the structural constraints of traditional forms of music, however complex that music may be. What's more, noise can communicate a feeling of angst and frustration that many listeners relate to. Even mainstream artists make use of this effect on occasion (e.g., "Misunderstood" by Wilco), though not nearly to the same extent as straight noise artists.

Everyone needs to listen to Pan Sonic's Kesto for at least 15 minutes. I suspect if I was ever able to break this down into tones it would become much less enjoyable.

Kesto (234.48:4) by Pan Sonic

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Anonymous — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 11:23:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2019 15:23

To add to what Tap said, "noise" is the foil of tone but also, colloquially, tonality. Practically, tonality is heard as the movement of music and is culturally relative. A tone or pitch is a measurable, objective quality but a series of tones or pitches (or modulation of one) begins to have different implications for people from different backgrounds. A typical western pop/rock listener cannot follow or has trouble following, for example, the polyrhythm of an Ewe drum circle, several jazz soloists at once (the "cacophony" of Free Jazz or Ascension), Arabic rhythmic patterns like rubi, or some of the minimalist chamber music of Arvo Part. Because they are uninitiated, the music would sound atonal or like noise to them (similarly, a non-speaker hearing another language ("it's all Greek to me")). It's questionable whether the intended emotivity can be learned through the music at an older age, rather than learned through being told, but you can immerse yourself in the music and become comfortable with the movement, making it no longer seem like noise.

So taking what we both said, I tend to not think of noise in music or sound. I think of timbral gradients (e.g. a sine wave, a step-pattern wave) and whether I understand or don't understand the sounds (or am at least comfortable listening to them).

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Tap — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 19:28:43 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 04/06/2019 23:28

ah hm maybe this one?

Solo For Wounded CD by Yasunao Tone

I actually haven't gone too deep with this guy yet, just the Group Ongaku album, I should tho.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

RoundTheBend — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 18:20:33 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/06/2019 22:20

Tap wrote:

hmm that sorta sounds like what people say about Oval - 94diskont but that one's pretty listenable and I don't think I shared it, not sure which one it would be

Yeah, that wasn't it... it literally was CD's skipping orchestrated altogether. It was wild... but maybe I'm remembering wrong... I swear you had posted it. It probably fits into the glitch world.

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Tha1ChiefRocka — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 17:57:56 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 04/06/2019 21:57

Can't there be both?

Link

Here's some noisy stuff from my chart.

Link

Link

Link

Hey, and here's some of this just for the fun of it.

Link

Link

Re: Noise Vs Melody

Tap — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 17:31:12 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 04/06/2019 21:31

sethmadsen wrote:

Oh hey, what was that album you shared once where it was like CD skipping noises or something orchestrated together? That was an interesting project for sure, even if I could never purposely listen to it for the purpose of heartfelt enjoyment.

hmm that sorta sounds like what people say about Oval - 94diskont but that one's pretty listenable and I don't think I shared it, not sure which one it would be

Re: Noise Vs Melody

AfterHours — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 16:50:59 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 04/06/2019 20:50

Noisiest on my top 100? Probably Twin Infinitives, though albums like Glenn Branca's Ascension, Sun Ra's Atlantis, VU's WL/WH, Trout Mask Replica, several free jazz works, also are right there in their own ways...

Between noise and melody, in terms of which is "better", it really matters which emotion/concept the artist is trying to relay. Obviously noise can be a better reflection for certain types of intensity or violence, ferocious physical or environmental action, apocalyptic destruction (etc) while melody is often a better reflection of beauty or nature or the human singing voice (etc).

Neither melody or noise by themselves (for the sake of it, or virtually so, without much emotional/conceptual purpose...) are of much value.

The greatest artists often find an alignment, synthesis and synchronization between the two (where one never fully disassociates from the other), or if not "outright noise" per se, then between "dissonance" and melody. Beethoven, perhaps above all. There are parallels to this with most of the greatest artists, not just music, but in other art forms too (visually etc).

Re: Noise Vs Melody

RoundTheBend — Sat, 6 Apr 2019 15:47:17 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/06/2019 19:47

Tap wrote:

noise is the opposite of tone, not melody. a little bit of noise is necessary to make timbres more interesting than just sine waves. too much noise though and it gets hard to detect a pitch and get a read on any melodies. so with that in mind the noisiest album on my 100 is also the quietest, this 6 hour Jurg Frey one where it alternates between absolute silence and recordings of a park. Though some of the recordings are filtered so you get a sense of a pitch. And then I guess the most melodic one would be this Hans Otte one.

I figured Tap would nail this.

As for me, I'm a tonal music junky... so I think the closest thing on my charts to have noise are artists who temporarily visit that world, but barely. Sigor Ros, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, heck even Beatles... but no none of my albums are noise albums.

Oh hey, what was that album you shared once where it was like CD skipping noises or something orchestrated together? That was an interesting project for sure, even if I could never purposely listen to it for the purpose of heartfelt enjoyment.