Best Ever Albums

Re: Jazz

Anonymous — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 13:17:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2019 17:17

edubs wrote:

things

Hence, the commercialism I mentioned.

Some threads I'm particularly drawn to recently include:
-the unhinged jubilation and ecstasy of Albert Ayler's Lorrach/Paris 1966
-the communication with silence and exploration of timbre without pretense on Polly Bradfield's Solo Violin Improvisations
-the intersection of silence and breath (some tools for music making) as well as microtonalities on things like Michel Doneda's Anatomie des clefs and Matthias Muller's solo trombone, and then the additional spiritual experience with something like Joe Maneri's Angles of Repose
-the foundations of three-dimensional world building with Anthony Braxton, particularly though his collage (e.g. Quartet (Willisau) 1991 & Quartet (Santa Cruz) 1993) and GTM (e.g. 9 Compositions (Iridium) 2006 & GTM (Syntax) 2017) musics
-the voice of the contrabass, particularly from Barry Guy (e.g. Symmetries), Brandon Lopez (e.g. quoniam facta sum vilis), Peter Jacquemyn (e.g. solo kontrabas), Joelle Leandre (e.g. Contrabassiste), and Peter Kowald (e.g. Was Da Ist) (and expecially bass duos
-the idiosyncratic polyrhythms of Cecil Taylor (e.g. Garden & Berlin '88)
-the synthesis of genres and experiences into a instantly recognizable, personal style via Leroy Jenkins (e.g. Space Minds, New Worlds, Survival of America)
-sound as a synthesizer/sine wave and the dimensionality of sound via John McCowen (e.g. Mundanas I-V)
-continuing with dimensionality, the trance-like, meditative multiphonics and laying bare the timbral spectrum of an instrument at once of Ned Rothenberg (e.g. Solo Works - The Lumina Recordings & World of Odd Harmonics) and Evan Parker (e.g. The Snake Decides)
-pipe organ music (e.g. French church improvisation, Aine O'Dwyer, Kara-Lis Coverdale)
-among others already mentioned (like Braxton's syntax) the intersection of language/voice and music, like Robin Hayward's Words of Paradise or Nate Wooley's Syllables

I think it's important to recognize that improvisation's foundation is performance, and recordings provide an even more unsatisfactory snapshot of a musicians conceptual world than performances. For example, a lot of musicians explore the interaction of sound and space, but this is not easily transcribed to a recording (see poor studio fac similes from For Trio, Skullsplitter, even Anatomie des clefs, for example). So sometimes it feels silly to put so much weight on recordings for a largely improvised, performance-based music.

Re: Jazz

edubs — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 12:30:59 GMT

Author: edubs

Posted: 04/07/2019 16:30

Hayden wrote:

edubs wrote:

i think part of the issue is that it is hard to mine deeper jazz music from many years back because it pre-dates the album format and because a lot of stuff is simply "out of print now".

I think what he's getting at is jazz since the (late 60's?) is ignored, not before.

ok.

jazz is now "harder" to discover these days because it lacks the popularity of other genres. example: you don't see jazz albums nominated for grammy awards. there are publications out there that follow rock/pop/alt/music that constantly review/promote stuff and they have a much more widespread audience than the handful of similar jazz publications.

Re: Jazz

Hayden — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 12:22:30 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 04/07/2019 16:22

edubs wrote:

i think part of the issue is that it is hard to mine deeper jazz music from many years back because it pre-dates the album format and because a lot of stuff is simply "out of print now".

I think what he's getting at is jazz since the (late 60's?) is ignored, not before.

Re: Jazz

edubs — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 12:00:58 GMT

Author: edubs

Posted: 04/07/2019 16:00

Kool Keith Sweat wrote:

What's always baffled me about jazz discussions on digital forums like BEA, RYM, /mu/, etc. is that the users deeply mine obscure, more-difficult rock musics but then stick to bop for a lot of jazz picks with some afrospiritualism/afrofuturism in the Coltranes, Sanders, and Sun Ra. It's as if everyone is OK with the neoconservatism of Reagan Marsalis in denying any development since the '60s. Closely related is separating capital J Jazz from improvised music when its probably the only common thread through the music which is otherwise only characterized by its melting pot, its fusion, its synthesis. The only thing separating them is the historical baggage associated with the former, which for some reason people enthusiastically accept. This isn't a list of 20 recordings I would make, but it's a list of 20 good recordings. It's another round in a circle jerk of neoconservative commercialism that the supposed diversity and freedom of the internet has not yet seen through.

i think part of the issue is that it is hard to mine deeper jazz music from many years back because it pre-dates the album format and because a lot of stuff is simply "out of print now".

i am very interested in seeing what your list of 20 is - always looking for hidden gems and it sounds like you are holding out on us !! 😁

Re: Jazz

Anonymous — Sun, 7 Apr 2019 11:57:15 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/07/2019 15:57

What's always baffled me about jazz discussions on digital forums like BEA, RYM, /mu/, etc. is that the users deeply mine obscure, more-difficult rock musics but then stick to bop for a lot of jazz picks with some afrospiritualism/afrofuturism in the Coltranes, Sanders, and Sun Ra. It's as if everyone is OK with the neoconservatism of Reagan Marsalis in denying any development since the '60s. Closely related is separating capital J Jazz from improvised music when its probably the only common thread through the music which is otherwise only characterized by its melting pot, its fusion, its synthesis. The only thing separating them is the historical baggage associated with the former, which for some reason people enthusiastically accept. This isn't a list of 20 recordings I would make, but it's a list of 20 good recordings. It's another round in a circle jerk of neoconservative commercialism that the supposed diversity and freedom of the internet has not yet seen through.

Re: Jazz

Fischman — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 23:01:33 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/06/2019 03:01

grogg wrote:

For comparisons sake, here's the RYM jazz top 20:

1. Kind Of Blue by Miles Davis
2. A Love Supreme by John Coltrane
3. The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady by Charles Mingus
4. In A Silent Way by Miles Davis
5. Bitches Brew by Miles Davis
6. Hot Rats by Frank Zappa
7. Giant Steps by John Coltrane
8. Mingus Ah Um by Charles Mingus
9. My Favorite Things by John Coltrane
10. Karma by Pharoah Sanders
11. Blue Train by John Coltrane
12. Soundtrack From Twin Peaks by Angelo Badalamenti
13. Out To Lunch! by Eric Dolphy
14. The Shape Of Jazz To Come by Ornette Coleman
15. Journey In Satchidananda by Alice Coltrane
16. Blues & Roots by Charles Mingus
17. Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock
18. Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers by Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers
19. Jack Johnson by Miles Davis
20. Time Out by The Dave Brubeck Quartet

If you don't want to include Hot Rats & Twin Peaks, then 21 is Coltrane's Ascension and 22 is Guaraldi's Charlie Brown Christmas.

Even though I generally think these lists too Miles-heavy, I do love seeing Jack Johnson on there.

Re: Jazz

grogg — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 22:53:24 GMT

Author: grogg

Posted: 04/06/2019 02:53

For comparisons sake, here's the RYM jazz top 20:

1. Kind Of Blue by Miles Davis
2. A Love Supreme by John Coltrane
3. The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady by Charles Mingus
4. In A Silent Way by Miles Davis
5. Bitches Brew by Miles Davis
6. Hot Rats by Frank Zappa
7. Giant Steps by John Coltrane
8. Mingus Ah Um by Charles Mingus
9. My Favorite Things by John Coltrane
10. Karma by Pharoah Sanders
11. Blue Train by John Coltrane
12. Soundtrack From Twin Peaks by Angelo Badalamenti
13. Out To Lunch! by Eric Dolphy
14. The Shape Of Jazz To Come by Ornette Coleman
15. Journey In Satchidananda by Alice Coltrane
16. Blues & Roots by Charles Mingus
17. Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock
18. Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers by Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers
19. Jack Johnson by Miles Davis
20. Time Out by The Dave Brubeck Quartet

If you don't want to include Hot Rats & Twin Peaks, then 21 is Coltrane's Ascension and 22 is Guaraldi's Charlie Brown Christmas.

Re: Jazz

Fischman — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 22:49:00 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/06/2019 02:49

sethmadsen wrote:

If you want a fair shake at jazz, you also can't limit it to albums... juts sayin.

Kinda true.

Most of that pre album era recorded stuff has found it's way to compilation albums of one sort or another. Some are now considered some of the greatest jazz albums of all time, even though they weren't albums in the first place.

Pretty standard recommendation to tell folks just starting out to get some album collection of Louis Armstrongs Hot Fives and Sevens.

Re: Jazz

RoundTheBend — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 22:32:41 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 04/06/2019 02:32

If you want a fair shake at jazz, you also can't limit it to albums... just sayin.

Re: Jazz

baystateoftheart — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 22:27:13 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 04/06/2019 02:27

Fischman wrote:

baystateoftheart wrote:

Fischman wrote:

baystateofthe art wrote:

Out:

Mingus Ah Um
Time Out
Brilliant Corners

In:

Journey In Satchidananda - Alice Coltrane
Rythmes Contemporains - Janko Nilovic
Sextant - Herbie Hancock

I like your Coltrane and Hancock adds... with that in mind, it seems I should check out the Nilovic with which I am as yet unfamiliar.

By all means, but don't go in expecting something like those two. It doesn't get much respect because it's library music with a slight cheese factor, but I find the composition sublime.

Whoa! I enjoyed the Hell out of that!!!

I actually love that early to mid seventies soul jazz even with a little cheese and that was just prime! Prime!!!

Nothing beats new discovery. Thanks for the recommendation.

Awesome! Glad you liked it! 😁

Re: Jazz

Fischman — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:56:01 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/06/2019 01:56

baystateoftheart wrote:

Fischman wrote:

baystateoftheart wrote:

Out:

Mingus Ah Um
Time Out
Brilliant Corners

In:

Journey In Satchidananda - Alice Coltrane
Rythmes Contemporains - Janko Nilovic
Sextant - Herbie Hancock

I like your Coltrane and Hancock adds... with that in mind, it seems I should check out the Nilovic with which I am as yet unfamiliar.

By all means, but don't go in expecting something like those two. It doesn't get much respect because it's library music with a slight cheese factor, but I find the composition sublime.

Re: Jazz

AfterHours — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:46:28 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 04/06/2019 01:46

Tap wrote:

some people don't like saxophones tho

This may be true but this bias is far more likely to be a misunderstanding/misconception of what it is relaying than a permanent or irreversible distaste for the instrument itself.

Re: Jazz

edubs — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:36:34 GMT

Author: edubs

Posted: 04/06/2019 01:36

Fischman wrote:

edubs wrote:

i can take or leave Sketches Of Spain ...

consider adding (no particular order):
The Complete Hot Five & Hot Seven Recordings by Louis Armstrong

Clifford Brown And Max Roach by Clifford Brown And Max Roach

Pithecanthropus Erectus by Charles Mingus

Ella Fitzgerald Sings The Duke Ellington Songbook by Ella Fitzgerald

The Sidewinder by Lee Morgan

Speak No Evil by Wayne Shorter

Somethin' Else by Cannonball Adderley

Waltz For Debby by vans Trio

The Epic by Kamasi Washington

Jazz In Silhouette by Sun Ra And His Arkestra

Black Byrd by Donald Byrd

Wow. Many of my all time faves in there. I mean, really, huge overlap with my greatest jazz loves, even across different sub genres. Great list!

thanks! i only started listening to jazz about 10 or 11 years ago.

i couldn't stop listening to this compilation and started exploring from there:
Duke Columbia Years 1927-1962 - Duke Ellington

i also love (despite it perhaps being "pop" - maybe?):
After Midnight by Nat King Cole

and spent a lot of time with this:
A Studio Chronicle 1940-1948 (Box Set) - Charlie Parker

when I listen to Stevie Wonder now, I have a better appreciation for his influences.
I love Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" even more
when I hear a sax in a Stones song, or Pink Floyd or other rock music - I enjoy it even more.

also: listening to jazz made me appreciate funk music more - I really enjoy stuff by:
The New Mastersounds
The Polyrhythmics

"To Pimp a Butterfly" by Kendrick Lamar has jazz elements I enjoy.

i also now realize why, when I was younger I enjoyed Steely Dan and other jazz-influenced music of the 70s.

jazz is resident in far more music from the US (and elsewhere for that matter) than people realize.

you can probably draw a line from the jazz of the 20s, through Ellington to Be-Bop and Dizzy Gillespie to Stevie Wonder and James Brown through to Prince and Rap / Hip Hop without much trouble

Re: Jazz

Fischman — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:20:37 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/06/2019 01:20

edubs wrote:

Wow. Many of my all time faves in there. I mean, really, huge overlap with my greatest jazz loves, even across different sub genres. Great list!

Re: Jazz

Fischman — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:17:48 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/06/2019 01:17

Tap wrote:

some people don't like saxophones tho

That was me. But I love guitar, piano, and trumpet, all of which helped immerse me in the world of jazz with great enthusiasm.... to the point I could tolerate the sax solos.

..... and the I heard A Love Supreme and the ant sax bias completely melted away. Now I not only love Coltrane, but also Henderson, Mobley, Rollins, Shorter, Hawkins, Parker, Turrentine, Adderley, Donaldson, Nelson, Washington.......

Re: Jazz

edubs — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 21:14:07 GMT

Author: edubs

Posted: 04/06/2019 01:14

i can take or leave Sketches Of Spain ...

consider adding (no particular order):
The Complete Hot Five & Hot Seven Recordings by Louis Armstrong

Clifford Brown And Max Roach by Clifford Brown And Max Roach

Pithecanthropus Erectus by Charles Mingus

Ella Fitzgerald Sings The Duke Ellington Songbook by Ella Fitzgerald

The Sidewinder by Lee Morgan

Speak No Evil by Wayne Shorter

Somethin' Else by Cannonball Adderley

Waltz For Debby by vans Trio

The Epic by Kamasi Washington

Jazz In Silhouette by Sun Ra And His Arkestra

Black Byrd by Donald Byrd

Re: Jazz

Tap — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:56:07 GMT

Author: Tap

Posted: 04/06/2019 00:56

some people don't like saxophones tho

Re: Jazz

AfterHours — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:53:35 GMT

Author: AfterHours

Posted: 04/06/2019 00:53

Though it's not surprising that this site (and other such sites) so overwhelmingly favors Rock as an art (Jazz is a much more complex, less marketed and less pop-oriented art than most popular Rock), I would strongly suggest that way too many users have missed roughly 1/2 the masterpieces of the 20th century (between Rock and Jazz) if they continue to ignore or dismiss it. One can easily begin recognizing the logical fallacy of dismissing Jazz when it is very clear even to a beginner that the average Jazz musician is much more technically skilled and proficient than the vast majority of Rock musicians and the average Jazz composer being a far superior composer than the vast majority of Rock artists.

So one should assume there are likely to be a pretty strong share of great works and masterpieces in relation to Rock.

Re: Jazz

baystateoftheart — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:07:55 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 04/06/2019 00:07

Fischman wrote:

baystateoftheart wrote:

Out:

Mingus Ah Um
Time Out
Brilliant Corners

In:

Journey In Satchidananda - Alice Coltrane
Rythmes Contemporains - Janko Nilovic
Sextant - Herbie Hancock

I like your Coltrane and Hancock adds... with that in mind, it seems I should check out the Nilovic with which I am as yet unfamiliar.

By all means, but don't go in expecting something like those two. It doesn't get much respect because it's library music with a slight cheese factor, but I find the composition sublime.

Re: Jazz

Fischman — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:03:40 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/06/2019 00:03

baystateoftheart wrote:

Out:

Mingus Ah Um
Time Out
Brilliant Corners

In:

Journey In Satchidananda - Alice Coltrane
Rythmes Contemporains - Janko Nilovic
Sextant - Herbie Hancock

I like your Coltrane and Hancock adds... with that in mind, it seems I should check out the Nilovic with which I am as yet unfamiliar.