Best Ever Albums

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

PurpleHazel — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 05:24:59 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 04/19/2019 09:24

Agree that different gateways will work for different people, and that if everyone could be matched up with the best-fitting gateway, a lot more people would like jazz.

I think some of the catchier hard bop from the Blue Note label is one of most accessible gateways, but there is no one size fits all. For some it may be Mahavishnu Orchestra, for others it may be free improv. Miles, either Kind of Blue or electric, is probably the most common.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

Graeme2 — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 03:11:59 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 04/19/2019 07:11

Kool Keith Sweat wrote:

It's from a CD single called Rehearsal Extract 10' 26 from the Joseph Holbrooke trio; it's a composition from Coltrane and at least appeared on 1962s Coltrane, if you wanna hear how he played it. It begins modally, stating the mode just like Miles Davis might, but evolves into an entirely different beast. Modal playing was one possible avenue of freeing up improvising musicians in the '50s and '60s. The members of this trio would go on to become major figures in the avant garde, both jazz and classical spheres.

I would suggest not fretting about compositional/notational aspects of the music, and instead immersing yourself until you get a feel for the language.

Kind of Blue is still the best selling jazz album (!!!) and serves as the entry point for many (myself included). But, if you don't dig it, there are many others, and I would just move on.

Kind of blue was one of the first jazz albums I bought when I was young but I just didn't get it at all. It wasn't the right place to start for me at the time. My gateway was through hip hop and funk and seeking out compilations like Blue Break Beats on Blue Note. That got me into the funky side of jazz and then the rest and eventually Kind of Blue. Find the style of jazz that works for you and that will be your gateway. I was listening to Kamasi Washington the other day and was thinking and hoping that he could be turning many of his young fans, who know little about jazz, towards investigating jazz as a whole.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

PurpleHazel — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 03:18:36 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 04/15/2019 07:18

TheDude85 wrote:

I look forward to hearing the Blakey Combo if I can get my hands on it. Thanks for the recommendations :)

You can check it out on Spotify (or another streaming service). Everything I recced is on there.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

Anonymous — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 10:41:31 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/14/2019 14:41

TheDude85 wrote:

@Kool Keith Sweat -Thanks for the link. Is that from a specific album?

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

TheDude85 — Sun, 14 Apr 2019 08:21:41 GMT

Author: TheDude85

Posted: 04/14/2019 12:21

@Kool Keith Sweat -Thanks for the link. Is that from a specific album?

@PurpleHazel -I appreciate your thoughts. It is clear that the Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" ensemble are a really tight combo, who really gel together. Perhaps the style of music may be too advanced for my ear. I look forward to hearing the Blakey Combo if I can get my hands on it. Thanks for the recommendations 😄

@manurock - Nice to meet another newcomer to Jazz music. There's a vast world for us to explore, Huh?

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

Fischman — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:07:14 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/13/2019 13:07

PurpleHazel wrote:

If you're a jazz beginner, you don't really need to know what modal jazz is. It's a relatively small subgenre that was more or less absorbed into mainstream and free jazz.

The reason why you're listening to Kind of Blue isn't because it's modal jazz, but because it's the most popular jazz album of all time. You would've been better off asking about why this particular album is considered so great, but since you're a beginner, the wrong turn is completely understandable!

Miles Davis is the most popular instrumental jazz artist of all time. He's not the most technically virtuosic trumpeter, but his lyrical, original playing was influential and connects strongly with listeners. He innovated or at least was at the forefront of several different styles of jazz, including cool jazz, modal jazz and jazz-rock fusion. A great bandleader and conceptualizer.

The group on Kind of Blue is an all-star band. John Coltrane, the tenor saxophonist, is virtuosic, one of the greatest improvisers in all of jazz, his playing offering a blazing contrast to Miles' more impressionistic style. Cannonball Adderley was arguably the best alto saxophonist between Charlie Parker and the free jazz era. Bill Evans, influenced by classical music, was himself a very influential jazz pianist.

The songs are melodic by modern jazz standards, though maybe not by pop standards. The bass states most of the melody in "So What" with the horns playing the two-note riff that sound like the words "So. What" in response to the bass melody. But ultimately it's the all-star combination of soloists and the cool mood Miles sets that makes the album so special and popular. "Freddie Freeloader" does sound like a slower variation of "So What," but I don't think the rest of the songs sound alike. That it was also the first famous modal jazz album and presents a particularly accessible form of it isn't essential for a newbie to know.

Charles Mingus isn't modal jazz per se. His style is his own, somewhere between be-bop, free jazz, swing, blues and gospel. Since his music's a little more challenging than late 50s Miles, I wouldn't recommend you start with that (though On the Corner's pretty intense in its own way!). I'm not a Dave Brubeck fan, though "Take Five" is a great song.

If you want to hear more melodic jazz, try this album:

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers by Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers

Also known as Moanin'.

Also check out these Horace Silver songs (all on Spotify):

Song for My Father
Creepin' In
Come On Home
Senor Blues
Sister Sadie

This is a great tune too:

Link

Those are excellent choices. I've long since left the beginner stage, and Moanin' remains my #1 jazz album of all time. Cool Struttin' is easily top 10%.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

manurock — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 04:42:16 GMT

Author: manurock

Posted: 04/13/2019 08:42

@PurpleHazel Thanks for the explanation, I don't know about TheDude but I was asking myself that question. Maybe because I'm more used to rock music and related genres, but I am not very fond of Kind of Blue (still got more listens pending though) and now I am curious if I will like that Art Blakey album. I will listen to it, thanks.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

PurpleHazel — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 02:04:06 GMT

Author: PurpleHazel

Posted: 04/13/2019 06:04

If you're a jazz beginner, you don't really need to know what modal jazz is. It's a relatively small subgenre that was more or less absorbed into mainstream and free jazz.

The reason why you're listening to Kind of Blue isn't because it's modal jazz, but because it's the most popular jazz album of all time. You would've been better off asking about why this particular album is considered so great, but since you're a beginner, the wrong turn is completely understandable!

Miles Davis is the most popular instrumental jazz artist of all time. He's not the most technically virtuosic trumpeter, but his lyrical, original playing was influential and connects strongly with listeners. He innovated or at least was at the forefront of several different styles of jazz, including cool jazz, modal jazz and jazz-rock fusion. A great bandleader and conceptualizer.

The group on Kind of Blue is an all-star band. John Coltrane, the tenor saxophonist, is virtuosic, one of the greatest improvisers in all of jazz, his playing offering a blazing contrast to Miles' more impressionistic style. Cannonball Adderley was arguably the best alto saxophonist between Charlie Parker and the free jazz era. Bill Evans, influenced by classical music, was himself a very influential jazz pianist.

The songs are melodic by modern jazz standards, though maybe not by pop standards. The bass states most of the melody in "So What" with the horns playing the two-note riff that sound like the words "So. What" in response to the bass melody. But ultimately it's the all-star combination of soloists and the cool mood Miles sets that makes the album so special and popular. "Freddie Freeloader" does sound like a slower variation of "So What," but I don't think the rest of the songs sound alike. That it was also the first famous modal jazz album and presents a particularly accessible form of it isn't essential for a newbie to know.

Charles Mingus isn't modal jazz per se. His style is his own, somewhere between be-bop, free jazz, swing, blues and gospel. Since his music's a little more challenging than late 50s Miles, I wouldn't recommend you start with that (though On the Corner's pretty intense in its own way!). I'm not a Dave Brubeck fan, though "Take Five" is a great song.

If you want to hear more melodic jazz, try this album:

Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers by Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers

Also known as Moanin'.

Also check out these Horace Silver songs (all on Spotify):

Song for My Father
Creepin' In
Come On Home
Senor Blues
Sister Sadie

This is a great tune too:

Link

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

Anonymous — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 22:31:22 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/13/2019 02:31

Link

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

TheDude85 — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 20:56:58 GMT

Author: TheDude85

Posted: 04/13/2019 00:56

Wow! I have a lot to learn! Thanks for the thoughts and explanations, Fischman, rkm, and Hayden.

I'll take a look at the links you have provided in addition to what you have written. For the past few months I have really been struggling with this. Like I wrote in my OP, the "Kind of Blue" album has been a real challenge for me. I know it's supposed to be great, but when I'm listening, each track seems to be similar to the one that came before and the one that comes up next. Perhaps "Kind of Blue" isn't the place to start.

I have tried and enjoyed Dave Brubeck's "Time Was ..." box set and Charles Mingus' "Mingus Ah Um" which may or may not be modal (I'm still not 100% sure I have yet to build an understanding of the concept). I also have enjoyed Miles Davis' "On The Corner", and Herbie Hancock's "Head Hunters" albums, but "Kind of Blue" so far has eluded my understanding. I'll keep trying. Thanks again. 😄

I'm still looking for further help here from all you contributors and music educators, too! 😁

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

Hayden — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 18:09:47 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 04/12/2019 22:09

It just means it's jazz that's structured around modes rather than tones. Coltrane, Evans, Hancock and Pharoah Sanders used it quite a bit.

This might help, but it's a dry read: https://tamingthesaxophone.com/jazz-modes

(insert some joke about dry reeds)

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

Fischman — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:59:42 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/12/2019 21:59

rkm wrote:

The tune, So What, is a good example. Whereas previously, a lot of bebop improv had been about navigating a labyrinth of chord changes, So What is about improv over one chord, which forces a different approach.

So What has that bass melody followed by the chord figure Em to Dm. Dm is the focus here. When they take solos, it’s just over the Dm. All music has to go somewhere, so there’s that shift up a half step to Ebm, and then it comes back to Dm.

When you play over a single chord, you can play the notes of the chord, which is what Miles does at the start of his solo, and then you can choose other notes that don’t belong to the chord, which is what Miles does as his solo develops. Those other notes add colour, and suggest different modes.

The problem is that all that is no different than tonal music, hence the confusion for many. In both cases, you have a chord, and then you have notes outside the chord providing color.

The key (no pun intended) is where the emphasis is applied.

It's important to note (again, no pun intended) that there are multiple modes which can be associated with any given scale. For every possible do re mi fa so la ti do, which note(s) are emphasized within that scale will determine tonality or modality. It's the emphasis on the root/third/fifth/(and maybe seventh) of the scale or is is around the notes of one chord that lie within that scale, not starting on the root note? That's what gives the modal sound and feel of the music.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

rkm — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:48:09 GMT

Author: rkm

Posted: 04/12/2019 21:48

The tune, So What, is a good example. Whereas previously, a lot of bebop improv had been about navigating a labyrinth of chord changes, So What is about improv over one chord, which forces a different approach.

So What has that bass melody followed by the chord figure Em to Dm. Dm is the focus here. When they take solos, it’s just over the Dm. All music has to go somewhere, so there’s that shift up a half step to Ebm, and then it comes back to Dm.

When you play over a single chord, you can play the notes of the chord, which is what Miles does at the start of his solo, and then you can choose other notes that don’t belong to the chord, which is what Miles does as his solo develops. Those other notes add colour, and suggest different modes.

Re: Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like

Fischman — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 12:00:59 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 04/12/2019 16:00

TheDude85 wrote:

I'm just starting my journey in building an appreciation for jazz music. I see and hear all the accolades heaped on Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and it is often referred to as modal jazz. What are the specific features that make this a masterpiece of that style? Is it a dismissal of melody for tone? To me I don't hear any melody on "Kind of Blue." While I'm a great deal older, if you could explain what modal music is in terms a 12 year old could understand, I'd really love to learn more and begin to fully appreciate this music and fill a musical blindspot for myself. Thanks for your time and informative responses.

Modal music is at once surprisingly easy and yet deceivingly complex. It is particularly hard for most to understand since we grow up in a tonal, rather than a musical world. The shift, technically speaking, from tonal to modal, isn't that great, but in mood and application, it's huge. Lots of folks will give very different explanations, which only serves to muddy the waters further.

I think this link does as good a job as any I've seen in explaining it. Hopefully it'll help.

http://www.thejazzpianosite.com/jazz-pi...l-harmony/

Modal Jazz Music - Can you explain it for a novice like me?

TheDude85 — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:39:41 GMT

Author: TheDude85

Posted: 04/12/2019 15:39

I'm just starting my journey in building an appreciation for jazz music. I see and hear all the accolades heaped on Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and it is often referred to as modal jazz. What are the specific features that make this a masterpiece of that style? Is it a dismissal of melody for tone? To me I don't hear any melody on "Kind of Blue." While I'm a great deal older, if you could explain what modal music is in terms a 12 year old could understand, I'd really love to learn more and begin to fully appreciate this music and fill a musical blindspot for myself. Thanks for your time and informative responses.