Best Ever Albums

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Skinny — Wed, 24 Mar 2021 22:16:04 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/25/2021 02:16

2017 wins, 10-3.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Hayden — Sun, 21 Mar 2021 10:58:34 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 03/21/2021 14:58

kokkinos wrote:

b)a win wouldn't be enough to qualify, as I would have the worst tiebreaker in case of a three way tie.

Before the round started I kinda thought there was a chance our bracket could have a 3 way tie. Don't think either of us are making it through though Kokkinos 🙁

Thanks for all the kind words about the team. Interesting to see people's reaction to Sunset, but I have no regret in my choice to use it.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

kokkinos — Sun, 21 Mar 2021 07:47:50 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 03/21/2021 11:47

Every time I check the score, the margin keeps growing, I also thought it would be closer. The funny thing - though somewhat expected - is that out of the three teams I formed for this tournament, it was my least favorite that got me the W.
On the other hand, I can't say I'm upset, considering that:
a)it would be a shame for 2017 to go out with 3 losses, all of its teams were commendable - the two previous ones actually got my vote.
b)a win wouldn't be enough to qualify, as I would have the worst tiebreaker in case of a three way tie.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Skinny — Sun, 21 Mar 2021 06:28:39 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 03/21/2021 10:28

I'm surprised this one isn't closer, to be honest. 2004 has two classic albums, and two enjoyable singles (particularly Twista's). Don't get me wrong, it's up against a good 2017 team with some really strong picks, but it basically comes down to a coin toss for me. Then again, it's evident I hold Cam in higher regard than the majority of users, which is fair enough. You can't all be right all the time.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

baystateoftheart — Sat, 20 Mar 2021 21:09:59 GMT

Author: baystateoftheart

Posted: 03/21/2021 01:09

The College Dropout: 4.5/5
Purple Haze: 3/5
Overnight Celebrity: 4/5
Selfish: 3.5/5

2004 Total: 15/20

Big Fish Theory: 4/5
Flower Boy: 4/5
Sunset: 3/5
Keep The Devil Off: 4.5/5

2017 Total: 15.5/20

I like the Kanye concept, and it works pretty well, but 2017 is a slightly better team overall.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Purplepash — Fri, 19 Mar 2021 21:24:15 GMT

Author: Purplepash

Posted: 03/20/2021 01:24

I can't go past the Vince Staples and Tyler, The Creator albums here. That combo probably would have gotten my vote anyway but the big K.R.I.T. single was awesome and guaranteed it.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

kokkinos — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 13:04:35 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 03/12/2021 18:04

Just a couple of minor thoughts on the 2017 team. Of course you should take my comment with a grain of salt, as I'm directly involved in this matchup. so you could argue my impartiality is severely compromised.
Both albums are wonderfully produced. Even though they are moving in completely different directions in terms of sound, they share one common feature: they are diverse yet cohesive, meaning that their tracks are distinct and memorable enough when assessed individually, but at the same time contribute to the overall atmosphere of the album. That said, I have to I consider Big Fish Theory significantly better than Flower Boy, despite the latter being my favorite Tyler album, while the former ranking just a tiny bit below Summertime '06. I appreciate how Flower Boy makes hip hop sound so non hip hip, so naturally and effortlessly beautiful and bright, but admittedly it can get slightly dull, it simply can't capture my attention the same way as Big Fish Theory does. This is one of those albums with near-infinite replay value, it just keeps hitting hard like it's the first time.
Lucki - Sunset may initially appear as the weak link, but it's a surprising grower to the point of addiction.
Big K.R.I.T. - Keep the Devil Off is another song one could play all day, it seems to never run out of steam.
So, I can easily imagine myself voting in favor of this team under different circumstances.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

cestuneblague — Wed, 10 Mar 2021 01:12:53 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/10/2021 06:12

I admire how both teams really conjure a certain time of place with their respective years, props due.

I still love The College Dropout. Yes it's overstuffed with too many interludes and half-baked ideas, and the attempt at oddball humor can feel a bit forced at times.. but there's something just so charming about it, even with his unbridled confidence there does feel something geniunely experimental and personally revealing about the project, the excitement of a still-young hot-shit producer finding his voice, and I don't think that's ever been replicated even among his much more consistient following albums. I admit I'm warming up to Cam'ron as his album here has some quite ingenious ideas and inventive rapping, but in all honesty I found it a more tiring 76-minute listen than College Dropout. The singles again do really take you back to 2004, the first being more meomarble than the second though.

Big Fish Theory is an admitted step up production wise for Staples that I just have never been able to quite latch on to as much as I wish I could, donno maybe the combination of genres that I've never quite fallen in love with or more so I just miss that certain kind of storytelling and mood-setting of the admittely less consistent Summertime '06. However I really did get into Flower Boy, which in retrospect is suprising consdering how much I found Igor a stultifying if certainly handsome bore. it seems really to be a fascinating three-way war with Tyler the Cynic, Tyler the Button-Pushing Puppetmaster and Tyler the Romantic that I found much more compelling, and the production is typically top-notch. Big Krit definitely easily has the best single here, a very modern spin on those old gospel-meets-dirty-south 90s vibes that maybe doesn't blow the roof off but certainly raises the rafters. I do like the vibe of the Lucki single, and I do think I'm coming around to this brand of xanax'd, mush-mouthed cloud rap, even If I agree this feels more like the part of something bigger rather than it's own great standalone single.

So again it's a toughie, I do ever-so-slightly put The College Dropout at the top of the albums but KRIT easily at the top the singles, neither team standing out as a clear winner so perhaps have some re-listening to do.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

RoundTheBend — Fri, 5 Mar 2021 22:12:14 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 03/06/2021 03:12

2004 (captain: kokkinos) (9.25)
Kanye West - The College Dropout (2.25)
Cam'ron - Purple Haze (2)
Twista - Overnight Celebrity (2.25)
Slum Village - Selfish (ft. Kanye West & John Legend) (2.75)

vs.

2017 (captain: Hayden) (8.5)
Vince Staples - Big Fish Theory (2.25)
Tyler, the Creator - Flower Boy (2.25)
Lucki - Sunset (1.5)
Big K.R.I.T. - Keep the Devil Off (2.5)

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

babyBlueSedan — Thu, 4 Mar 2021 18:25:51 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 03/04/2021 23:25

I gave Purple Haze another listened and decided that it is very easily my favorite first listen of the tourney. Definitely don't see why I thought Cam'ron didn't have much mic presence initially, his lyrics popped a lot more upon a revisit. I'm still leaning towards 2017 overall based on single strength but I'll see how I'm feeling once the poll opens.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

travelful — Thu, 4 Mar 2021 14:45:10 GMT

Author: travelful

Posted: 03/04/2021 19:45

One of my favorite match-ups so far. I am also a huge Kanye West fan so naturally the 2004 team is among my favorite in the tournament so far however the 2017 team still holds its own. The College Dropout at first glace seems like the obvious heavy hitter but as time goes on my opinion on Flower Boy just gets high and higher and honestly they're about neck and neck for me now. Both Purple Haze and BFT are about equal for me too although I have more of a softspot for Cam'ron than I do Vince Staples even is BFT is a more interesting record. Ultimately it really comes down to the singles where even though 'Keep The Devil Off' is my favorite of the bunch Sunset's repetitiveness mostly turns me off from that track. 2004 gets my vote by just a smidge but overall both teams were dope.

2004:
The College Dropout - 9/10 No matter how many of my favorite Kanye tracks are on here those annoying New Workout Plan tracks always keep me from feeling the record is truly flawless. I love the School Spirit skits though, some of my favorite skits on any album.
Purple Haze - 8.5/10
Overnight Celebrity - 9/10
Selfish - 8/10

2017:
Flower Boy - 9/10
Big Fish Theory - 8.5/10
Sunset - 6/10
Keep The devil Off - 10/10

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

kokkinos — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 12:29:20 GMT

Author: kokkinos

Posted: 02/28/2021 17:29

I was pretty sure The College Dropout would receive mixed reactions, but I didn't expect Cam'ron to be such a hot topic of discussion. When I discovered this album - not 100% sure, but I 'm reasonably confident it was some time in early 2005 - I was excited mostly because it featured Kanye (I've already mentioned my views on him during the first round of the tournament, so there's no reason to repeat myself, you got the point, I really like him). After listening to it, it was the production that immediately attracted me, I wouldn't even pay that much attention to Cam'ron (even today my preferences are more production-oriented than rapping-oriented, but back then it was even more striking). The moment I started noticing him was after deciding to check the rest of his discography - both solo and Dipset. I can definitely see why you would consider him one of the greats. Given the right production he would shine, but in most cases I 've had some difficulties keeping up with him over the course of a whole album (to be fair, I can't think of many rappers that can carry an entire album lacking in the production department). And of course I massively respect him for doing his thing and playing the game by his own rules (that's another reason apart from the obvious ones that Purple Haze fits nicely next to The College Dropout).

Hayden wrote:

Didn't except to go up against a 2x2 Kanye team (especially after the 2x2 DOOM team)— thought you'd throw Masta Ace in the mix somewhere, or at least a Jay-Z single.

Both of those were part of the other team I had prepared, but at the end I didn't manage to overcome my team chemistry addiction. Actually, I 'm surprised I even contemplated for so long. At some point I will coment on your team, too, but I wanna finish the other matchups first.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

babyBlueSedan — Sun, 28 Feb 2021 11:33:53 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 02/28/2021 16:33

I didn't mean to imply that I don't like Cam as a rapper, I was really trying to say that I think the beats outshine him a bit. And even then that largely comes down to personal taste and how much I'm drawn to lush production with vocal samples. And also just how good the beats are. I thought his rapping was solid, and if I have any complaints it was about his presence, however you want to define that. Some rappers feel larger than life or have immediately noticeable unique flows that draw me in, and I didn't hear anything like that from Cam. Also note that this is an opinion from a single listen to this album (and about 50 listens to his verse on Kanye's "Gone"). With more listens I'd likely pick up on the things that make him great. I'll also say that the rapping on Purple Haze is probably better than the rapping on College Dropout, but I enjoy listening to Kanye more because of his vocal inflections and personality. But again, I'm much more familiar with one than the other. Probably just speaks to the qualities of hip hop that draw me in.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Skinny — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 13:25:06 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 02/27/2021 18:25

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

Bruh, I can literally say this to you about all of the rappers that you don't care for either based on your own personal tastes. :P

Oh, no doubt. But all the rappers I don't care for are worse than Cam. 😉

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Tha1ChiefRocka — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 13:22:47 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 02/27/2021 18:22

Skinny wrote:

People honestly don't like Cam as a rapper? Sometimes I feel like I'm living on the astral plane. Dude had/has everything - buttery flow, effortless internals, massive personality, great phrasing, knockout punchlines, superb comic timing, authentic street smarts, a dry wit, even a great line in absurd imagery. Cam is basically a cross between Jay-Z and DOOM, and at his best I find him a more joyous, entertaining rapper than either. I trust any rapper who is loved by their own community, and Cam is a god in Harlem. It's utterly crazy to me that some people don't seem to get it. I just feel like: how can someone love the art of rapping and everything it entails without appreciating that Cam'ron did it as well as anybody ever? Then again, I also think Sean Price belongs in that category. I have a real love for rappers who are unabashedly street but still more than a little weird: Ghost, Sean P, Cam, E-40, Suga Free, Roc Marci, Drakeo, Pimp C, Boosie, even fucking Silkk the Shocker. They're like folk singers, man; people who are of the streets but who see the world through a kaleidoscope. Everyone is obviously entitled to any opinion, but I am at a loss trying to figure out how anybody can't immediately see Cam's genius.

Bruh, I can literally say this to you about all of the rappers that you don't care for either based on your own personal tastes. 😜

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Skinny — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 13:02:19 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 02/27/2021 18:02

People honestly don't like Cam as a rapper? Sometimes I feel like I'm living on the astral plane. Dude had/has everything - buttery flow, effortless internals, massive personality, great phrasing, knockout punchlines, superb comic timing, authentic street smarts, a dry wit, even a great line in absurd imagery. Cam is basically a cross between Jay-Z and DOOM, and at his best I find him a more joyous, entertaining rapper than either. I trust any rapper who is loved by their own community, and Cam is a god in Harlem. It's utterly crazy to me that some people don't seem to get it. I just feel like: how can someone love the art of rapping and everything it entails without appreciating that Cam'ron did it as well as anybody ever? Then again, I also think Sean Price belongs in that category. I have a real love for rappers who are unabashedly street but still more than a little weird: Ghost, Sean P, Cam, E-40, Suga Free, Roc Marci, Drakeo, Pimp C, Boosie, even fucking Silkk the Shocker. They're like folk singers, man; people who are of the streets but who see the world through a kaleidoscope. Everyone is obviously entitled to any opinion, but I am at a loss trying to figure out how anybody can't immediately see Cam's genius.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

babyBlueSedan — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 12:41:46 GMT

Author: babyBlueSedan

Posted: 02/27/2021 17:41

This is a tough one. College Dropout is my second favorite Kanye album, and I like it more than Late Registration. He sounds his freshest and most driven here, and the album is a ton of fun despite the sometimes heavy topics. The middle section drags a bit, but the run at the beginning through "Never Let Me Down" is basically perfect, as is the closing set of songs (I never listen to "Last Call" anymore but I suppose I have to include it in my evaluation here). I enjoyed Purple Haze more than I thought I would. The beats are phenomenal, it's a really easy album to listen to despite its length. Cam'ron is my least favorite part of it, but I'm not sure that matters much in this case. I wrote previously about how The Chronic is an album I enjoy but one where I basically ignore the lyrics, and while this doesn't touch The Chronic musically it brings a similar fun environment. The skits are awful and there are some questionable lines, but they don't kill it. Note that "Dick on her nose, now she cock-eyed" is not one of those questionable lines because it is clearly genius.

On the 2017 side, I love these picks. I wasn't sold on Big Fish Theory at first but slowly came around to it. Agreed with others that there's nothing that really sounds much like it, at least with Vince's style of rapping over it. "Yeah Right" is unbelievable, "Rain Come Down" is an underrated closer, but my favorite song is very easily "Bagbak." I do think a few of the songs feel more like interludes and it doesn't really cohere as an album experience, but that's a very small gripe. I also love Flower Boy. At the time I had never bothered with a Tyler album after not liking the singles I had heard from him (I'm torn on Yonkers, I wasn't listening to rap when it came out so maybe I missed the hype). But I loved the singles for this one and the album is even better. I very much prefer it to Igor because the tracks like "See You Again" are balanced out by more intense songs like "I Ain't Got Time," which I think makes it a more robust, well-rounded album. And musically it just sounds so lush and bright. The transition to the closing track, which has one of the best beats on the album, is one of my favorite "transition to the last track" moments on an album.

So it's hard to compare the albums considering 2004 has an all time favorite plus a very good new listen and 2017 has two favorites that don't touch College Dropout. Would rate them something like:

College Dropout: 9.5
Purple Haze: 7
Big Fish Theory: 7.5
Flower Boy: 8.5

2004's singles are good but I can't help but feel like they're lesser versions of ideas on the 2004 albums. The Lucki song is lackluster, but 2017 also has "Keep the Devil Off," which I think will end up swinging this to 2017 for me. Will think about it more over the next week.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

LedZep — Sat, 27 Feb 2021 08:42:02 GMT

Author: LedZep

Posted: 02/27/2021 13:42

Big Fish Theory is one of those albums that I kinda listened to at the time but not really carefully. On every subsequent listen throughout the years it got better and better, and at this moment in time I think it's my favourite album in this matchup. A year ago Flower Boy would've had that title. I'm slightly less enthusiastic about Tyler now than I was in 2019, but even so I like his last 2 albums a lot. Flower Boy has higher highs, Igor is consistently cool, both are fantastic. Back to Vince, I think the thing that didn't let me fully immerse myself in Big Fish Theory in 2017 was the repetitiveness. I definitely prefer his rapping style on Summertime 06, but the songwriting and production here are easily better. His rapping sounded mediocre at first, but just like the songs, the rapping grew on me over time. And hearing anyone rap over Sophie beat is incredible, nevermind some of the best rappers around in Kendrick and Vince.

Kanye's debut is an important album. It's got a lot of issues ranging from consistency to novelty rapping, but I'm not denying that it's a monster of a project that shaped the 00s hip hop. PossiblyMichigan said it the best: "College Dropout is a bratty and inconsistent record with endearing attitude but lacking some of the chops that Kanye would very soon develop." Although I would probably be a bit more positive overall since there are some incredible highlights. As for Cam'ron... eh. I enjoy his take on 00s pop rap and chipmunk soul, there's some seriously dope songs here, but I cannot for the life of me listen to him more than a few songs at the time. And I haven't yet figured out why. His rapping's decent, the record is long but not too filler happy. I just find myself zoning out after 4-5 songs. Maybe it's the decidedly mainstream and radio oriented 00s style that bugs me a bit. It does sound a bit dated. IDK man, I loved Down and Out as a standalone single, but it sounds somewhat tame when surrounded by similarly sounding songs. I'll just keep listening to Purple Haze until a) I figure out why I don't like it as much as I'd want or b) I start to like it as much as I want to.

Both 2017 albums are better than Kanye's debut imo, Purple Haze is good but still the least enjoyable in this matchup. And also my favourite single here is Keep the Devil Off so it's an easy vote for 2017. Both 2004 singles are damn good though, it's just that Big Fish Theory + Flower Boy combo is tough to beat. Selfish was a great blast from the past, Sunset sounds like an ok-ish interlude.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

Skinny — Fri, 26 Feb 2021 04:53:36 GMT

Author: Skinny

Posted: 02/26/2021 09:53

Big Fish Theory is easily Staples' best, a genuine left-turn that takes from elements of numerous strands of electronic music and hip-hop to create something that not only coheres but that also occasionally thrills. 'Crabs in a Bucket' is pure UK garage (which was exciting for me to hear, as somebody who grew up attending UK garage raves and listening to American hip-hop at home, but never imagining the two together), 'Big Fish' is an aqueous hyphy banger with a instantly memorable Juicy J sample, 'Alyssa Interlude' borrows a pattering, glitchy drum track from Burial or Aphex Twin at their most gentle, 'Love Can Be...' draws on electroclash and French house, '745' is a trap beat that takes influence from g-funk and Mobb music, 'Homage' pays homage to skittering juke rhythms, 'Rain Come Down' is the most gloomy take of DJ Mustard's ratchet music imaginable (with a star turn from golden-voiced Ty Dolla $ign, one of hip-hop and R'n'B's most consistently underrated figures), and those SOPHIE beats are massive, huge, clattering, quasi-industrial takes on house music that are still catchy as fuck. It really is a very forward-thinking record in terms of mainstream-adjacent hip-hop, a massive, colourful jump forward from the greyscale No I.D. beats found on Summertime '06. I find it funny that Vince Staples first emerged as a very wordy, angular rapper who could bring a level of street authenticity to Earl Sweatshirt songs, but ended up making something like this, essentially a sampler of all the cool club music he likes but featuring a much more impressionistic, mantra-heavy form of rapping that nonetheless works perfectly for the beats he picked. I really do think it's one of the most inventive rap of albums of the past few years, and I find it a captivating listen.

Gonna be honest here and say that I can't remember a thing about Flower Boy, which means one of two things: a) I never heard it in the first place, which makes some degree of sense given my general sense of apathy towards Tyler; or b) it's completely forgettable.

Can't really fault the 2004 albums too much, although The College Dropout is bloated and spotty, whilst at other times being some of the greatest hip-hop ever made. It's definitely much more good than bad, though. If I'm in the right mood, I can convince myself it's a masterpiece, but there are too many moments that Kanye desperately wants to be funny that just aren't. On the other hand, Cam'ron is just a genius (I mean, Kanye is too, just not on the mic), and Purple Haze deserved to be absolutely huge. His outsized, absurdist, almost free-associative boasts and measured, economical (yet still internals-stuffed) flow make him one of my favourite rappers who ever lived, and Purple Haze is his masterpiece. It is obviously the best album here. 'Overnight Celebrity' is not 'Slow Jamz', but it's a serviceable piece of fast-rapping chipmunk-soul, whilst that Slum Village song is very listenable, if kinda low-stakes and John Legend-heavy.

Those 2017 singles are interesting. That Big K.R.I.T. song feels like a natural extension of the stuff Tree was doing in the earlier part of the decade, and I just love how ridiculously Southern K.R.I.T. always sounds, even with his backpacker tendencies. I really think he helped to shift the whole conversation around Southern hip-hop when he first broke on the scene, and despite never quite blowing up to superstar status he's always been putting out consistently luscious music and heartfelt raps. I sometimes feel he can get a little self-serious, and those tendencies are present here, but the song works in spite of this. I probably just about prefer it to 'Overnight Celebrity', but to be honest both are just good rap songs. I can't make my mind up on the Lucki song - it definitely has something going for it, but it doesn't scream 'great single' to me. Feels like an interlude. Cool beat though.

Re: BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

PossiblyMichigan — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 18:09:29 GMT

Author: PossiblyMichigan

Posted: 02/25/2021 23:09

Well '04 both has the strongest and weakest album here. On a BAD day I'd say Cam'ron's purple haze is the apex of chipmunk soul, on a good day it's a top 50 record for me. I love it that much. There’s an essay on N+1 where the essayist makes this enigmatic statement about oppressed minority groups hijacking the language of the wealthy. Well I feel similarly about Cam’ron killing it on More Reasons, a beat that sounds like he hijacked the soundboard at the Bellagio fountain and is just balling at the PWI (I am aware that it’s an Earth Wind Fire sample but sped up it has this 50’s rat pack kinda vibe). Cam'ron's just got this wordplay that sounds cool even if it's ultimately amounting to nothing (side note [url=https://twitter.com/len0killer/status/1349411438306226181] this is hysterical). And the skits are just some of the best.

College Dropout is a bratty and inconsistent record with endearing attitude but lacking some of the chops that Kanye would very soon develop. He’s making compromises, inserting unfinished tracks that he doesn’t have the rights clearances too (I don’t care how many Kanye Stans try and gaslight me, the back masking expletives in school spirit sucks), and just inserting songs that straight up drag far longer than they have any right too. At its highs though? Spaceship, We Don’t Care, Jesus Walks? Untouchable. Probably would have sacrificed this one.

Flower boy? Yawn? Well… yeah probably… but also… Look Tyler’s never made anything as good as Yonkers, that said I’d like to submit to the BEA jury that the record preceding this, Cherry Bomb, is super interesting - one of the few modern pop records that tries to play with mixing as an art form rather than just a tool. It is inconsistent but it presents a lot of interesting ideas that I think the rap world would go on to take note from (would Thug’s mixing be as interesting without Cherry bomb? I don’t really think so). Anyway flowerboy is much more consistent than I remember it. My general impression is this is what odd future would have sounded like if they were an industry plant from the very start. Gone are the Arturia V3 synth collections and now Tyler has the money to buy a prophet or a Juno and then just like own on it. It’s fun you know? Fun “I’m rich now and I’m coming out” music. Is it as genuine as everyone freaked out upon on release? No probably not, Tyler’s always had a cynical attitude for milking his trauma for cold hard cash (he said as much during a wolf era interview).

Big Fish Theory’s cool one of the first mainstream records that felt like it was trying to ape from everything cool in the electronic world in the time (the Sophie beats are veryyyy good). It’s certainly his best record to date, most of his producer choices are very inspired, a far distance from his next album which is like half Kenny Beats reptetivieness. Was going to jot down some thoughts on a relisten but ended up having to take this one on a road trip so I’ll come back to this and the singles. I would say I'm leaning 2017, primarily on the strength of the singles but also because everything's at least a tier above the kanye debut