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Re: What are you reading lately?

Romanelli — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 12:22:27 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 03/24/2023 16:22

Request that the subject be concluded by a site modertor has been ignored.

Re: What are you reading lately?

cestuneblague — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 12:07:54 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/24/2023 16:07

It's time to fucking stop, nothing new is being said by anybody and all this has become the usual internet game of just smugly deciding who's the bigger asshole or bigot. If this needs to be closed and someone wants to open up a new reading thread where "discussions" of anything related to Rowling or Harry Potter are banned, I'm all for it, free speech be damned.

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 12:03:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2023 16:03

Quote:

*by donkeys

Re: What are you reading lately?

Applerill — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 11:29:17 GMT

Author: Applerill

Posted: 03/24/2023 15:29

theblueboy wrote:

cestuneblague wrote:

theblueboy wrote:

EyeKanFly wrote:

I agree that we should listen to the lived experience marginalised groups. That’s the most important point of all. But what do we do if we hear some members of marginalised groups preaching harm and hatred to individuals or other marginalised groups? Should we never stand up to this and ask why?

I would need to go through this thread again but I don't remember when they were doing that? Again I did have issue with the social media reaction to Hogwarts: Legacy, but even in retrospect that was just the usual Twitter drama of calling anybody you have a problem with a bigot and at least attempting to do a public shaming list of users who played the game, (which admittedly is a really shady way of making people vulnerable to harrassment and possibly doxxing), but not really outward bigotry, especially based on personal identity. Even here at worse was just a case of some aggressive false-equivilancy politics and Applerill doing the usual neversurewhenserious Trolling.

There has been some unequivocal misogyny with that book reference from Applerill. Not saying I was properly offended because it was more bizarre than anything. Gowi talking about scarlet letters is not exactly great though either. I know it’s not the worst or even close, but still.

The case that hate has been advocated towards Rowling is pretty clear though.

Also, thanks for your posts. Very helpful indeed to have had these perspectives.

Once again, your accusation is horribly puritanical at best and downright transphobic at worse, as it implies that I’m not a woman myself, AND that lots of women (and people of all genders) don’t have sexual fantasies of being raped in their personal lives* that don’t harm anyone else. I personally find the Crane book to be mostly cartoonish and funny more than actually erotic (though I often DO fantasize about humans doing those things to me), but a cishet man called a trans woman misogynist for joking about it is… not a good look…

*I hope I don’t have to explain how this is vastly different than “asking for it” rhetoric, since this is personally based on my consensual desires towards my own body at VERY specific times.

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 08:04:58 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2023 12:04

cestuneblague wrote:

EyeKanFly wrote:

I don't remember anytime when users here were saying we need to give Rowling equal voice or respect for her bigotry in contrast to the voices of the Trans community. I guess Blueboy not being full convinced of her transphobia came across as defending her in some sort even if he was genuinely unaware of the depths of a lot of her not-so-cryptic takes on gender, and I certainly have little doubt of her views on the subject as it fits very much into the dog-whistle-through-a-bellhorn TERF exclusionary rhetoric, but again I think there were some better ways to handle that. Again my problem has been moreso the small vocal minority online have shown their opposition to Rowling have handled the release of Harry Potter IP by taking it out on the consumer strawman, regardless of whatever views they've actually shown, and no Marginalized Status does not make it okay for personal attacks or borderline sketchy harrasment campaigns. And (hold the fuck on) I did not say that put them anywhere near the level of Rowling & those she now pals around with. Now Gowi and Applerill weren't doing that here (well I mean Applerill was just being Applerill, it's kind of live and let live at this point) and clearly much of it is born about the entirely understandable issue that letting Rowling in some shape or form back into a visibile, mainstream space can cause problems even if she's just "there in spirit", but I can still see how it also negatively came across as if there were declerations that Blueboy was either supporting Rowling's politics automatically by his consumption of Harry Potter or that he was feigning ignorance to knowledge about her transphobic views- which my time around his forums he has always come across as a very sincere person. Again, there are always better ways of communication if you want to try and get people who aren't in your lived experience to fully see your side of things.

Yeah thanks, I wasn’t feigning ignorance at any point (except when I pretended to have not heard of Jman 🤣 )

Nobody actually asked me for my political views and I never gave them. In fact, there has been a good many manoeuvres to discourage me from speaking and discredit my views.

Well here goes, the main differences between Rowling and myself I want to stress is for one that I’m not polemical. I have no idea on the bloody answers as I see both sides of the debate. The second difference is that Rowling obviously does not care about offending transgender people. I do. Also, I’m not transphobic, but Rowling claims this as well.

Was I naive about the controversies? In hindsight, not all that much. I didn’t know anything really about all Rowling’s associations because these are not really covered in the mainstream media I have consumed. I said that I don’t see the evidence that she is transphobic (or perhaps better to say has expressed transphobic views) and ultimately that still stands. Nobody has presented any credible evidence that she is being transphobic. Of course there are all these these transphobic associations. I don’t like them at all but I don’t like the crap thrown at Rowling either.

What case could you make against JK in a court of law? I’m not going to say that someone is transphobic because they are holding hands with a transphobic person. Her behaviour is wrong and it’s offensive behaviour, it has damaged her credibility massively. But as far as I am concerned, someone is transphobic when they utter a transphobic statement. In which case, hold them to account and take them to court.

Like I said though before ad nauseam. I am prepared to learn more.

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 06:11:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2023 10:11

cestuneblague wrote:

theblueboy wrote:

EyeKanFly wrote:

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 05:06:00 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2023 09:06

RockyRaccoon wrote:

I understand tensions are a bit high here right now, but I'd appreciate it if we could reel this in - I don't gather that anyone here is going to be changing their minds anytime soon. Let's try and get back to the topic, I'd really prefer not to have to lock the thread or anything like that.

I appreciate that you are intervening in the interest of cool heads prevailing before someone says something really horrible. But I’m not really prepared to let what has gone on simply get swept under the rug. I don’t like the BEA community turning a blind eye to misogynistic posts, claims that an individual deserves a scarlet letter and other misinformation. Same goes for that interloper’s attempt to throw in some horrible transphobic language. You are right, this is probably beyond resolution at this point but people should not be discouraged from speaking out. I was always prepared to die on this hill. Still am.

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 04:59:03 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/24/2023 08:59

Applerill wrote:

theblueboy wrote:

EyeKanFly wrote:

…What violence am I practicing towards marginalized groups?

Don’t say women, because that in itself is transphobic in its assumption that Gowi and I aren’t women. Don’t say Harry Potter fans either, even if the term sometimes seems like a synonym for “older millennial”.

Well I wasn’t talking about violence to Donkeys.

Re: What are you reading lately?

Applerill — Fri, 24 Mar 2023 03:54:31 GMT

Author: Applerill

Posted: 03/24/2023 07:54

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

I'm reading "Dilla Time" by Dan Charnas which I would recommend to anybody here that is a Dilla fan, or just interested in learning what made him special.

Found a video that breaks down Dilla's timefeel that was pretty good too.

Link

I'm gonna make a thread about Dilla over in the big forum.

Ooh, that was one of the best biographies I’ve ever read <3

Re: What are you reading lately?

Tha1ChiefRocka — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 21:27:07 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 03/24/2023 01:27

I'm reading "Dilla Time" by Dan Charnas which I would recommend to anybody here that is a Dilla fan, or just interested in learning what made him special.

Found a video that breaks down Dilla's timefeel that was pretty good too.

Link

I'm gonna make a thread about Dilla over in the big forum.

Re: What are you reading lately?

cestuneblague — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 20:41:42 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/24/2023 00:41

Crystal Clear.

Anyhooz, I've been reading The Spanish Holocaust, surprisingly a really great text not just to understand the Spanish Civil War but much of Europe's tension throughout the run up and aftermath of WWII.

Re: What are you reading lately?

RockyRaccoon — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 20:25:35 GMT

Author: RockyRaccoon

Posted: 03/24/2023 00:25

I understand tensions are a bit high here right now, but I'd appreciate it if we could reel this in - I don't gather that anyone here is going to be changing their minds anytime soon. Let's try and get back to the topic, I'd really prefer not to have to lock the thread or anything like that.

Re: What are you reading lately?

mickilennial — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 18:14:44 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 03/23/2023 22:14

Link

Re: What are you reading lately?

cestuneblague — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 17:56:41 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/23/2023 21:56

Applerill wrote:

lol "aggression" "perversion"

Pro Tip: Trust multiply marginalized people about the things that make us worry for our safety. We know much more about our lived experience than you do, and expressing fragility for being called out just centers your cisness instead of focusing on what's ultimately a life-or-death situation between me and Gowi.

Well, then find a firm but eloquent way to express your concerns and experiences to someone who's not in your lived experience and maybe not aware of all the issues but who's likely more than willing to listen to what you have to say if you treat them like a human being rather than just acting like a condescending troll, that doesn't help anything and don't hide behind identity as if that somehow allows you to ignore basic decorum & respect that can actually lead to more empathy and understanding.

Re: What are you reading lately?

cestuneblague — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 17:45:39 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/23/2023 21:45

theblueboy wrote:

EyeKanFly wrote:

Re: What are you reading lately?

cestuneblague — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 17:34:05 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 03/23/2023 21:34

EyeKanFly wrote:

Re: What are you reading lately?

Applerill — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 17:08:49 GMT

Author: Applerill

Posted: 03/23/2023 21:08

theblueboy wrote:

EyeKanFly wrote:

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 16:07:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/23/2023 20:07

EyeKanFly wrote:

Re: What are you reading lately?

EyeKanFly — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 15:33:15 GMT

Author: EyeKanFly

Posted: 03/23/2023 19:33

theblueboy wrote:

I’m not really following. What’s a J Man?

bygone BEA forum drama...

This thread's come a long way off books, but I completely support Gowi and Applerill in that lived experience of marginalized people absolutely essentially needs to be listened to and not portrayed as an equal "argument" against people who wish them ostracized or harmed or worse.

The Harry Potter books were a huge part of my formative years. They were a huge part of the development of my reading comprehension, and an enormous part of the pop culture of my childhood. I think many people who enjoyed HP the way I do feel betrayed by JKR in recent years. The HP books seemed to preach inclusion and respecting those around us, but JKR has made her whole identity into a hatred of a specific group of people and amplified the hate which that group of people receives. It's disgusting, and quite frankly it's leading lots of people (myself included) to take a look-back at our love of Harry Potter and seeing things like introducing slavery in a children's book and deeming it the natural order of things (within that world), and realizing that maybe JKR had some fucked up views all along.

To bring this back on topic but also with a clear connection, I highly recommend Black Sun by Rebecca Roanhorse. It's a high fantasy novel but with its mythological basis in the culture of pre-Columbus Americas rather than European folklore (which form the basis for much of Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, Chronicles of Narnia, etc.). As part of that, queer and non-binary characters are normalized as they would have been in certain indigenous American cultures prior to European influence. I'm not just praising it because the diversity of characters, it's a great story that follows a series of characters in an epic story as some fight for or against the restoration of a foregone deity (sort of like Lord of the Rings but if Sauron was a main character and everyone was morally grey?). I'm about 40 pages away from the end of the book, and I've got the sequel lined up and can't wait to begin reading right away. Can't recommend enough.

Re: What are you reading lately?

Anonymous — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 14:50:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 03/23/2023 18:50

Applerill wrote:

theblueboy wrote:

Applerill wrote:

lol "aggression" “perversion”

You literally recommended a book about a woman being raped by a donkey.

A really great one, too. I really like your taste, BlueBoy, but the longer this conversation goes on, the more you sound like JMan in the Naked Human Body thread.

(And as I said, a big part of why I brought it up was that it was recommended to me by Keith before I even entered college. You surely aren't more sheltered than a 19-year-old homeschooler, are you?)

I’m not really following. What’s a J Man?