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Re: MLB 2023 season

cestuneblague — Fri, 3 Nov 2023 23:04:14 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 11/04/2023 03:04

No, we definitely don't need everything to be seven-game series like the NBA, whose playoffs take forever and feel like nearly half a season at this point. The five-game format in the first round was better because it was not only quicker and more motivating but allowed for better chances at upsets, as Romanelli I'm sure knows when the 8th seed Nuggets infamously beat the top Sonics nearly 30 years ago. I agree [the MLB plyoffs are] flawed in many ways, not just in the ways mentioned, but certainly better than the one-game play-in and unlike the NBA losing teams haven't got in (well... so far, looking at the AL central that could be a possibility soon) so at least the teams that are competing generally played quite well. The MLB playoffs are just kind of an odd beast, not only health is a major deciding factor but mainly how you emphasize preventing runs over trying to score as many as possible, though the more free-swinging Rangers kind of bucked that trend this year. I donno, I mean the continuing adding of wild card teams was obviously a money decision (like everything) cause they want more fanbases invested throughout the season, and has made the home stretch of the regular season more exciting but yeah so far not the playoffs. It also has to go along the sad fact that baseball has really receded as a national sport in the 21st century and just doesn't seem to have the cultural dominance (or shared dominance) it did as nearly a quarter of a century ago, though the ratings need to be taken with a grain of salt because all sports have seen broadcast ratings go down just like every former television station.

Anyways I guess on to the offseason, where I can expect Mariners to do fuck-all with any decent oppurtunity.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Thu, 2 Nov 2023 21:44:02 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 11/03/2023 01:44

Romanelli wrote:

That isn't 100% true. The TB Rays were a 99-win wild card, so they played and lost their series 2-0 between Oct 2nd and Oct 7th. The other three teams had byes. Nevertheless, that could be flaw in and of itself. Why is a 99-win team with the second-best record in their league forced to play a best-of-3? Under an NBA style format, they would have had a bye. However, if this happened between 2012-21 (just two seasons ago), the Rays would have been forced to play a one-game wild card, and that's just asinine. I would say the current best-of-3, while flawed, is better than what it used to be.

Romanelli wrote:

In 2007, the Rockies won 26 of 27 games to win the pennant...and then they had to wait 9 days for Boston to win the ALCS. What happened? The Red Sox had all the momentum and swept the Rockies.

True. But at the same time, the NL was incredibly weak in 2007. The Rockies didn't play a legit opponent until the Red Sox in the World Series. The Red Sox were far superior and they showed it. Still, momentum and one team getting hot, the other cold, played a part.

Romanelli wrote:

1) 4 playoff rounds in baseball is too many. 3 rounds is really pushing it.

I don't think I agree. MLB would have to cut the # of playoff teams down to 8, the way it was from 1995-2011. And that wasn't exactly fair. Many good teams in that era didn't even have a shot.

Romanelli wrote:

2) The first round best of 3 is too short. No MLB playoff series should be less than best of 7. Baseball learned that lesson more than 20 years ago.
3) The Division Series best of 5 is still too short. Should be best of 7.

I agree with these points. Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. Ideally, best-of-7 is the way to go. However, if every round was best-of-7, the World Series would go almost to Thanksgiving. That's no good. Too cold in late Nov to play baseball. Plus the players deserve their off-season to rest and be with their families. For every round to be best-of-7, I think the regular season would have to be trimmed by about 20 games. I would not oppose that at all. In fact, I would totally trade a shorter regular season for a few more playoff games, but good luck getting the owners to sign on.

Romanelli wrote:

4) Byes in baseball do not work.

Between 2012 and 2021, #1 seeds who had to wait 4-5 days for their wild card opponent, went 9-9 against them in the division series. On paper, they probably should have won more. So yeah I agree momentum and hot/cold streaks had something to with that. As for 2022 and 2023, #1 and #2 seeds received 1st-round byes. And their wait times between end of regular season and division series is 6 days now instead of 4-5. Does that extra day or two off really make them even rustier? Do wild cards build even more momentum now that they play a best-of-3? I don't think two seasons is enough to definitively say. #1 seeds and #2 seeds, who received byes, are 3-5 in the division series in 2022 and '23. It's a bad showing, but it's also a small sample, and could be a fluke. We'll see that happens in the coming years.

Romanelli wrote:

5) Too many wild cards. Yes, it makes for better regular season races. But it also aids the disadvantages that the division winners have because they can mostly coast while wild card spots are fought for, usually until the very end. There is no disruption of momentum...but four of the 6 division winners won by at least 9 games.
6) The strange obsession we have with needing more playoff teams is giving us what we ask for...unbalanced and crappy playoffs. The NBA playoffs last year were comical in their predictability and bad play from losing teams. Too many teams does NOT make the playoffs better. The NBA playoffs are a joke. The NHL at least has enough of a competitive balance to make it work...but the other sports do not. Especially the NBA and MLB.

I am absolutely not in favor of the way the NBA has set it up. Throwing divisions out of the mix has done nothing to improve the quality of the postseason. You want to make the playoffs? Win your division is a guarantee, then beat the other second place teams to make it if you didn't get the division. You may have had a better record than another team, but does that mean you get to make the playoffs even though you finished 6th in your division? The Mariners need to play better than the teams in their division. Play in spots are garbage. 20 teams making the playoffs is an absolute joke. It's only 12 in MLB...and that's too many.

This ties in with earlier points. I agree more playoff teams don't make playoffs better in any sport. At the same time, I don't believe there are too many teams in the MLB playoffs. I think 12 just about right. I was not proposing MLB should expand playoffs to 20 teams like the NBA (which is so freaking stupid). Rather, I was proposing what if there were only 12 playoff teams, but they were seeded purely based on W-L record (like the NBA)? It would have given the Mariners a shot this year, and I think they earned it more than the Twins, Marlins, and Diamondbacks. As for the division winners who can coast while the wild card teams keep fighting...I don't see how that's a total disadvantage. The manager's job is to keep their teams fresh and focused, and ready for the playoffs. If their teams fail in the playoffs, I don't think you can entirely attribute that to a momentum gain/loss. They don't have to rest their starters in the home stretch if they don't want to. They can choose how many practices and simulated games they have during their 1st-round bye. Thus, a good portion of the blame for defeat has to be owned by the division winners who allowed themselves to get rusty, and played like shit in the playoffs, such as the Dodgers this year. However, if momentum does directly correlate to the playoff outcomes, then what can be done to reward the team who played superior in the regular season? What if division winners who earned 1st round byes started their first playoff series with an automatic 1-0 lead in the series? That may sound crazy, but believe it or not, that's exactly what they do in Japanese baseball.

Re: MLB 2023 season

Romanelli — Thu, 2 Nov 2023 17:15:23 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 11/02/2023 21:15

CA Dreamin wrote:

A few closing thoughts on the 2023 season:

- Good for the Rangers, I suppose. I mean, they've never won the WS but I can't think of any team I could care less about. They had a good team though, and they earned it.

- It seems America at large couldn't care less. This will be by far the least watched WS in history in TV ratings (I didn't watch it either).

- The 84-win Diamondbacks nearly completed their Cinderella Run. If they had won the WS, that would have marked the second time in three years a team won the WS with a worse regular season record than the Mariners, who missed the playoffs. (Braves in 2021 won 88, went on to win the WS; Mariners in '21 won 90, missed the playoffs).

- So what does that say about the playoff format? Clearly it's not perfect, but no system is perfect. MLB increased the # of playoff teams from 10 to 12 a couple years ago, to be more inclusive, and to encourage more competitive baseball down the stretch. I would argue it's more interesting that way. And yet, decent teams still miss the playoffs, while average teams can sneak in. Should MLB adopt an NBA approach to playoff seedings, by downplaying divisions and make playoff seedings purely based on W-L record? Furthermore, there has been outcry from fans that the MLB playoff format disadvantages teams who play well in the regular season, and favors the weaker ones. They may have a case. After all, the four titans of the regular season this year...TB, LAD, ATL, and BAL, who won between 99 and 104 games (the next closest team won 92), all went down in their opening round, with a combined record of 1-11. Is there a flaw in the format, that put them at a disadvantage? Or was it just a fluke?

- Anyway, it's over now. Onto NFL football.

The playoff format is absolutely flawed.

The regular season ended on October 1st. The 4 teams you mentioned above each played that day. But then...the first round commenced. None of those 4 teams played a game between October 2nd and October 7th, while the wild card teams were in full playoff mode. Any idea what a full 5 days off can do to a baseball team's momentum when they have to come back and play a team that just won a playoff series? Those teams went 1-11 because they had zero momentum and had to play teams that had all the momentum.

In 2007, the Rockies won 26 of 27 games to win the pennant...and then they had to wait 9 days for Boston to win the ALCS. What happened? The Red Sox had all the momentum and swept the Rockies.

Here's what's wrong:

1) 4 playoff rounds in baseball is too many. 3 rounds is really pushing it.
2) The first round best of 3 is too short. No MLB playoff series should be less than best of 7. Baseball learned that lesson more than 20 years ago.
3) The Division Series best of 5 is still too short. Should be best of 7.
4) Byes in baseball do not work.
5) Too many wild cards. Yes, it makes for better regular season races. But it also aids the disadvantages that the division winners have because they can mostly coast while wild card spots are fought for, usually until the very end. There is no disruption of momentum...but four of the 6 division winners won by at least 9 games.
6) The strange obsession we have with needing more playoff teams is giving us what we ask for...unbalanced and crappy playoffs. The NBA playoffs last year were comical in their predictability and bad play from losing teams. Too many teams does NOT make the playoffs better. The NBA playoffs are a joke. The NHL at least has enough of a competitive balance to make it work...but the other sports do not. Especially the NBA and MLB.

I am absolutely not in favor of the way the NBA has set it up. Throwing divisions out of the mix has done nothing to improve the quality of the postseason. You want to make the playoffs? Win your division is a guarantee, then beat the other second place teams to make it if you didn't get the division. You may have had a better record than another team, but does that mean you get to make the playoffs even though you finished 6th in your division? The Mariners need to play better than the teams in their division. Play in spots are garbage. 20 teams making the playoffs is an absolute joke. It's only 12 in MLB...and that's too many.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Thu, 2 Nov 2023 13:56:42 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 11/02/2023 17:56

A few closing thoughts on the 2023 season:

- Good for the Rangers, I suppose. I mean, they've never won the WS but I can't think of any team I could care less about. They had a good team though, and they earned it.

- It seems America at large couldn't care less. This will be by far the least watched WS in history in TV ratings (I didn't watch it either).

- The 84-win Diamondbacks nearly completed their Cinderella Run. If they had won the WS, that would have marked the second time in three years a team won the WS with a worse regular season record than the Mariners, who missed the playoffs. (Braves in 2021 won 88, went on to win the WS; Mariners in '21 won 90, missed the playoffs).

- So what does that say about the playoff format? Clearly it's not perfect, but no system is perfect. MLB increased the # of playoff teams from 10 to 12 a couple years ago, to be more inclusive, and to encourage more competitive baseball down the stretch. I would argue it's more interesting that way. And yet, decent teams still miss the playoffs, while average teams can sneak in. Should MLB adopt an NBA approach to playoff seedings, by downplaying divisions and make playoff seedings purely based on W-L record? Furthermore, there has been outcry from fans that the MLB playoff format disadvantages teams who play well in the regular season, and favors the weaker ones. They may have a case. After all, the four titans of the regular season this year...TB, LAD, ATL, and BAL, who won between 99 and 104 games (the next closest team won 92), all went down in their opening round, with a combined record of 1-11. Is there a flaw in the format, that put them at a disadvantage? Or was it just a fluke?

- Anyway, it's over now. Onto NFL football.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 00:21:49 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 10/13/2023 04:21

The Division Series are over. So...

For all that talk about how good the AL East was this year, their teams went 0-7 in the playoffs. Not sure what happened there. I suppose the Rays were too injured; the Orioles, too inexperienced; who knows about the Jays.

Perhaps while fans and analysts were hyping up the AL East, they were overlooking the AL West, who have two solid teams, plus a third decent team who just missed the playoffs. Once again, for the seventh straight year, the Astros are in the ALCS. Could be a back-and-forth fight against the Rangers. The Rangers are solid, we'll see if Scherzer returns to the club in time for this series.

The Dodgers, ugh. Same problem as last year...they're a team with several good hitters but they lack leadership. They don't have that guy who can carry them when other hitters are struggling, that guy who intimidates opposing pitchers, that guy other teammates rally around. A guy like Corey Seager or Justin Turner, who've moved on to other clubs. Tack on the loss of 4 of last year's starting pitchers, and the Dodgers really weren't prepared for the playoffs this year. Their formula is successful in the regular season, but these past two playoffs demonstrate they're missing something. I don't know if it's management or the roster, but when you routinely win 100 games and then get embarrassed in the playoffs; when you only score 6 runs over 3 games and your best two hitters go 1-21 in the series, while your starting pitchers have an ERA over 25...something needs to change.

Lastly, on a positive note, how about the fightin' Phils ousting the Braves again! Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos with incredible performances this series. The team in general looks great right now. They look focused. Keep it going in the NLCS!

Re: MLB 2023 season

Romanelli — Sun, 8 Oct 2023 15:19:22 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 10/08/2023 19:19

With the Rockies finally notching their first 100 loss season in history, here's all I care about this postseason:

1) I don't care who does it, but somebody please beat the Dodgers.

2) Nolan Arenado. It pleases me to no end to see that this traitorous clown, 3 years after screwing over the Rockies with that player option in the contract they gave him because he "wanted to play for a winner" has still played in fewer postseason games with St. Louis than he did with Colorado...and that he continues to sport a career .152 postseason average and a .385 OPS. May he forever be on the losing side, and may his offense continue to lowly fade.

Re: MLB 2023 season

cestuneblague — Sun, 8 Oct 2023 12:54:25 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 10/08/2023 16:54

Yeah I really don't care who wins, and that's not just because the M's pulling an M's during the season. Maybe the Twins, just because I lived on the border between MN and ND and they've been long suffering, but they kind of fell into the playoffs by default. It's probably going to be the Braves, but ya never know, though nobody in the American League look like a true world series team otherwise so they're best competition is probably the Dodgers. How original.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Sun, 8 Oct 2023 12:47:44 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 10/08/2023 16:47

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

Quote:

And their fans' chant is obnoxious and arguably racist.

Yep, I've never known anyone or any other sports franchise to do that chant. Definitely not. Never heard it. 8-[

Haha, I guess you're not a Florida State fan. That's where the Tomahawk Chop originated, and it spread to the Braves and KC Chiefs fan-bases since. Last year during the Phillies-Braves NLDS, Phillies fans did it at their home games as a way to mock the visiting Braves. So we had to hear it every game, not just the ones in Atlanta. It's just a dumb and annoying chant. As for this year's Phillies-Braves NLDS, great start by the Phils yesterday. I only heard the chop once, during the top of the 4th inning with two outs when Braves fans were cheering on Spencer Strider to get out of inning unscathed. And well, in that moment, Bryson Stott hit a single, scoring Bryce Harper from second, giving the Phils a 1-0 lead. That shut up the Braves fans :D. I didn't hear the chop again for the rest of the game. And as it turned, that was the only run we needed!

Lastly, terrible gm 1 for the Dodgers yesterday, ugh

Re: MLB 2023 season

Tha1ChiefRocka — Sun, 8 Oct 2023 00:34:34 GMT

Author: Tha1ChiefRocka

Posted: 10/08/2023 04:34

Quote:

And their fans' chant is obnoxious and arguably racist.

Yep, I've never known anyone or any other sports franchise to do that chant. Definitely not. Never heard it. 😨

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Sat, 7 Oct 2023 18:39:00 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 10/07/2023 22:39

Mercury must've disliked his predictions so much, he struck them from the record 🤔 . 2/4 IIRC

The remaining teams in my order of preference:

1. Phillies - My A team
2. Dodgers - My B team, in my new home city since '14
3. Orioles - They haven't won in 40 years. Love how they succeeded in the toughest division in MLB.
4. Twins - Indifferent, but feel bad for them. 18 straight playoff losses, and hadn't won a playoff series since '02. At least those droughts are now over.
5. Astros - I respect Dusty and Verlander, but they just won last year, and have been the most successful playoff team in recent years. Time for someone else to win.
6. Rangers - I just don't like them.
7. Diamondbacks - Why are they in the playoffs, again?
8. Braves - Respect, but would never root for my team's biggest rival. And their fans' chant is obnoxious and arguably racist.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:30:41 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 10/02/2023 16:30

CA Dreamin wrote:

Now that the trade deadline dust has settled, these are my playoff predictions.

AL division winners - Rays, Twins, Rangers
AL wild cards - Orioles, Astros, Blue Jays
NL division winners - Braves, Cubs, Dodgers
NL wild cards - Giants, Phillies, Brewers

I later rescinded my 'Rays winning the East' prediction when McClanahan got hurt, but not bad. Got all AL teams right, with 2 mixed up division winners and wild cards. 4/6 on the NL teams.

It sucks the playoffs will be without the Cubs and Mariners. It was all looking bright for the Northsiders a few weeks ago. They were 76-64, several games ahead in the wild card, with a legit shot at winning the NL Central. They went 6-14 over their next 20, including 1-6 against Arizona (one of the teams who passed them in the standings). Blown leads by their bullpen and horribly-timed fielding errors that cost them wins. A brutal choke job.

As for the Mariners, they went 11-16 over the last month of the season, dropping from 1st in the West to 3rd, and just missing the wild card by one game. I'm sure it's a tough pill for cestuneblague to swallow. However I wouldn't call it a choke because A. They never had a big lead in the standings anyway, and B. Their Sept schedule was totally ruthless. Their 11-16 stretch included 7 games against the Rangers, 4 against the Rays, 3 against the Dodgers, 3 against the Astros (all those teams finished with 90+ wins and made the playoffs). I don't think it's a case of the Mariners regressing from last year. On paper, they seemed about equally good this year as last. The issue, I think, was other teams in the AL simply got better, such as the Rangers, Orioles, and Rays. In those crucial games in Sept against the Rangers and Rays, the Mariners went 4-7, 3-7 if you discard the final meaningless game after they were already eliminated. Hard to deny that made a difference. Again, the AL is tough, and teams gotta keep up with their rivals. Of course, the Mariners can still be competitive going into 2024, but they should (and likely will) pursue a big-name free agent this off-season.

Anyway, it's playoff time! Who do you all think will win?

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Wed, 20 Sep 2023 13:56:49 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 09/20/2023 17:56

The whole Angels/Ohtani situation could not have gone any worse. 12-32 since the trade deadline, losing their star for the season, who will not be able to pitch again until 2025. Poor Angels fans. And poor Ohtani. His long-term longevity as a two-way player is now in serious question. I was thinking he may receive the first ever $500M contract this off-season. But if I was a GM, I wouldn't offer him that. Thus, this second major elbow injury is gonna cost him money in free agency, unless some team is crazy enough to offer him $500M anyway. Ohtani should consider choosing pitching or hitting, but not both. It's clear performing at an elite level in both causes wear-and-tear on his body, and these injuries could become cyclical.

How about the 2020 World Series teams? The Rays keep winning despite losing pitchers left and right. I don't know how they do it, but it's pretty cool. The Dodgers also keep winning despite a gutted rotation that's seen May, Gonsolin, Urias, and now Buehler shut down for the season. That's 4/5 of last year's rotation. It would be neat if they had a WS rematch this year, but I don't think many fans expect that. There are other great teams out there who are also healthier. Sure, the replacement pitchers on the Rays and Dodgers are performing very well, but they lack the experience of the guys they're replacing, which could be a weakness come playoff time. We'll see. So far, so good. However, I think a likelier WS rematch would be that of 2021. The Braves and Astros are looking solid.

And for the obligatory Phillies and Mariners note...they're doing fine. Keep up the good work, and they'll make a wild card. I think the Phillies got this. 3 games up with 11 to play, and three teams would have to catch them...it would take a total collapse to miss the playoffs (however, they have one the most notorious late-season collapses in MLB history, so this Philly fan won't take it for granted until they're officially clinched). Ironically, the Mariners are one game better than the Phillies, yet they're a bubble team at the moment. Just goes to show how the AL is full of haves and have-nots, plus they feature the worst division in MLB by far, making it likely a non-division winner will miss the playoffs with a better record than a division winner (the Twins). Between the Jays, Astros, Rangers, and Mariners, one of them will miss. I think the Mariners are good enough to not be the odd man out. It's too bad MLB got rid of Games #163 in case of a tie. Hypothetically, I would like to see that if two of these four teams tied for the last wild card spot. That would be fun, but head-to-head record will be the determiner.

Anyway, should be a fun home stretch! Go Phillies!

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Sat, 12 Aug 2023 13:38:15 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 08/12/2023 17:38

McClanahan's injury is a devastating blow to the Rays. I don't think they're a WS contender anymore; I don't think they're winning the East anymore. Question is, will they hold onto a wild card spot? They still have talent and a 5-game lead, so there's a reasonable chance, but then again there are everal teams fighting for 3 wild card spots. How about the Mariners and Phillies? Looking good in recent weeks. Their respective divisions may be out of reach but wild card probabilities are on the rise.

Re: MLB 2023 season

cestuneblague — Tue, 8 Aug 2023 20:51:54 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 08/09/2023 00:51

I'm feeling better about the Mariners than I was just a week ago, seems like the roster (especially some under-the-radar re-enforcements) is peaking at the right time. Too bad they have to climb the hump in the American League- where everybody but the A's in the east and west are basically contenders (though the Angels are backsliding- haha not trading Ohtani seems more genius by the day) but someone is going to tumble into the playoffs by default in the Central. In the National League it seems more balanced, with three teams in each division still in it and two definitely out. Wonder if Juan Soto (or Xander Bogearts. or Manny Machado) are going to be on the Padres roster to start 2024.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Wed, 2 Aug 2023 13:53:59 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 08/02/2023 17:53

So after all that noise about the Mets going into 2023...they trade their two best pitchers. It was cool that Verlander won his 250th game in last Mets start. But now he's back where he came from. Meanwhile Scherzer was traded to the Rangers. Teammates turned into AL West rivals. Not sure who's gonna win that division but I think it's safe to say both will at least make the playoffs.

Now that the trade deadline dust has settled, these are my playoff predictions.

AL division winners - Rays, Twins, Rangers
AL wild cards - Orioles, Astros, Blue Jays
NL division winners - Braves, Cubs, Dodgers
NL wild cards - Giants, Phillies, Brewers

Other than the Braves winning the NL East, every other prediction was a tough call. There are so many playoff-bubble teams. Should be an interesting, exciting final two months.

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 21:13:34 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 07/28/2023 01:13

Angels announce they won't trade Ohtani. He then pitches a 1-hit shutout in game 1 of a double-header but goes 0-5 at the plate. But then in game 2 of the double-header, he goes 2-3 and hits 2 HRs...then leaves the game with an apparent injury. Quite a day for the young star.

But it sounds like he's fine, and it was only a cramp. As much as he works being a two-way player, cramping is likely bound to happen from time to time.

Anyway, I totally understand why the Angels GM considered trading him, but I also understand why nobody wanted him. He's too talented and too risky for any team to go after mid-season. Makes more sense for teams to pursue him in the offseason. The pressure is now on the Angels to get a wild card, and make a playoff run to perhaps give Ohtani enough confidence to re-sign with them. Or at the very least, the Angels make a few more bucks off him this season if he decides to leave.

Re: MLB 2023 season

cestuneblague — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 18:58:53 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 07/27/2023 22:58

Link

... and literally a day later he gets injured. Times like these make me realize why I believe in stranger forces out there pulling all the strings.

Re: MLB 2023 season

cestuneblague — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:38:07 GMT

Author: cestuneblague

Posted: 07/27/2023 16:38

Yeah unless they got the godfather offer for Ohtani, he wasn't going to be traded. It wouldn't have been realistic to expect a deal the size of Juan Soto's, but they clearly wanted something like an MLB-ready piece and at least two blue-chip prospects plus a lower-level lottery ticket, which no teams would be willing to give up for only three guaranteed months of Ohtani regardless of the initial excitement he would generate. I guess the Angels are going all in on the hope & prayer of a playoff spot, but that's going to be tough in the American League- I know, considering how big of a hump the Mariners still have to climb. Maybe the draft pick they recieve will be another slept-on Mike Trout type, who knows?

Re: MLB 2023 season

CA Dreamin — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 12:10:26 GMT

Author: CA Dreamin

Posted: 07/27/2023 16:10

The Angels will not trade Ohtani.

Well I said the Angels would have to 'go on a blazing hot streak before Aug 1' to justify keeping him. They've won 6 of their last 7 so that must be hot enough. They're still 4 GB in the wild card standings, but I agree with the author of this article that the bigger reason they're keeping Ohtani is because no team was willing to meet the Angels's asking price. Furthermore, he generates too much revenue for the team. We'll see if acquiring Giolito and the return of Trout can push them into a playoff spot. It's gonna be tough, though.

Re: MLB 2023 season

Romanelli — Mon, 10 Jul 2023 19:24:23 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 07/10/2023 23:24

CA Dreamin wrote:

Romanelli wrote:

IF the Angels trade Ohtani (despite losing 9 of 10, they are still just 5 games out of a playoff spot with half the season to go. Very much in contention.), it would most likely be to an NL team. But it would pretty much guaranteed not be to the Dodgers. Angel fans would burn down the stadium if that happened. The two teams very rarely trade between each other as it is...sending Ohtani to the Dodgers would be the biggest PR nightmare in Angels history. Also, the Dodgers would have to give up far too much in the way of prospects...something they do not like to do. Especially for a guy who may turn out to be a 3 month rental.

The Dodgers would have to get him in free agency. But that price tag is gonna be really high.

And as talented and unique as Ohtani is, it's important to note that his talents have not yet translated to winning. He has 6 years in MLB and has never played a single postseason game. With Mike Trout and Albert Pujols (for most of it), two guaranteed first ballot HOF'ers as teammates. As much as people like to compare him to Babe Ruth, by the time Ruth was 28 (Ohtani's current age), he had been to the World Series 6 times and won 4 championships.

Fair point about the hypothetical Angels-Dodgers trade. However, I don't see the Angels getting into contention. The Trout injury already seems to be damaging, as they skidded hard this past week. So what to do with Ohtani? If I was the Angels GM, I'd consider trading him unless they go on a blazing hot streak between now and Aug 1. There isn't any point in keeping him if they're not playoff bound, and unwilling to sign him to a mega-deal after the season.

I don't compare Ohtani to Ruth for a couple reasons. 1. Ruth basically quit pitching when he was in his early-20s, so he wasn't the two-way threat for most of his career. In that regard, Ohtani is much more versatile. And 2. Ohtani's stats are nowhere near as good as Ruth's. However, as a contributor to his team, I think Ohtani is absolutely a winner who has arguably increased his team's chances of winning more than any other individual player in MLB so far in 2023 (largely due to the dual hitting/pitching threat). He just has the misfortune of playing on a team with a lackluster supporting cast (unlike Ruth who had great teammates his entire career).

Fair enough about Ohtani's lack of surrounding talent. And yeah. Ruth was a different era...and a different franchise.

I will bring up here the fallout that my team, the Rockies, have suffered the last few years...

They were basically forced to trade Nolan Arenado. That they were forced to trade him by Arenado himself is beside the point. (Nolan turned out to be a real turd. He was advertising himself as a willing trade piece to the Cardinals before he even signed that deal with Colorado. He talked his way into a player option knowing he was going to opt out, and knowing the Rockies would suffer because of it. Adam Wainwright put that out there. The fallout has been that not only are the Rockies still paying that traitor, but also the fans took his side. For that, Nolan's an asshole. But that's not the point...)

The point is that the Angels should consider their immediate future. The chances of getting a great return for Ohtani are slim. Baseball trades for prospects are not a sure thing, and no one is going to give up players in a trade that are going to be needed to get to the postseason this year. The Arenado trade netted Colorado a 3B prospect who hasn't been able to figure it out at the MLB level (Montero), and a starting pitcher who has proven himself nothing more than a 4th starter (Gomber). And that's really fortunate for Colorado. Unless they trade him in the offseason, the Angels won't get any established MLB'ers. At least if they let him leave via free agency, they'll get an extra first round pick of their own. And if they DO wait and allow that to be the worst case scenario, then at least they can try to sign him in the offseason. Trading him says that they give up. And it's not like the Angels are small market...they should be in the hunt to resign him.

Angel fans. I think. would see a trade of Ohtani as the team giving up and settling for a long rebuild. Never a good way to hold onto a fanbase. Especially when you have a more successful team they can turn to in the same market.