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Re: The Satanic Verses

Facetious — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:39:32 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 01/11/2012 15:39

Jackwc wrote:

Well, that's one of the big issues right now.

There is this big dissent between Muslims who want to separate Church and State and those who don't. Europe went through the same thing, and there is typically quite a lot of bloodshed involved in making the transition.

You're pretty lucky however, as Pakistan doesn't fully abide to sharia, so they're having a much easier transition right now, and making a lot of social progress without violence.

So I'm lucky to be living in Pakistan, huh? I hope it does make a lot of progress. WITHOUT violence.

Re: The Satanic Verses

Jackwc — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:19:44 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 01/11/2012 15:19

Well, that's one of the big issues right now.

There is this big dissent between Muslims who want to separate Church and State and those who don't. Europe went through the same thing, and there is typically quite a lot of bloodshed involved in making the transition.

You're pretty lucky however, as Pakistan doesn't fully abide to sharia, so they're having a much easier transition right now, and making a lot of social progress without violence.

Re: The Satanic Verses

Facetious — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 10:07:45 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 01/11/2012 15:07

Jackwc wrote:

HISTORY LESSON TIEM!

Saudi Arabia, as the best example, was Christian Europe five centuries ago, essentially. Oppressive misogynistic laws? Killing homosexuals? Death by stoning? An obsession with "purifying the world"? That's what it was like in Europe just over half a century ago. The last time the Muslims Nations and European Christians clashed, during the crusades, they were both pretty like-minded in that they were striking towards the complete eradication of each other, or the "infidels". Since then, however, Europe was over-taken by a number of revolutions which lead to a separation of Church and State.

This separation of Church and State thus took archaic religious moralizing out of the scientific process, allowing for great dynamic shifts in culture and technology that shaped the Western World into a completely different world. The Middle East, unfortunately, never reached that point of separation of Church and State, so they missed out on having a lot of those cultural and technological evolutions, until about 100 years ago when Middle Eastern oil made countries which has once been of little importance on the world stage to have a new world prominence, such as Saudi Arabia, and gave them a lot of money, thus allowing people who had not had five hundred years of social change to have five hundred years of TECHNOLOGY. This lead to a lot of violence and social unrest that the area is still experiencing today.

But I digress.

Essentially, had the Middle East had the shift to divide Church and State BEFORE Europe had, they would right now have reversed roles, because the Middle East of NOW is a lot like the Europe of THEN.

🤔 Boy, I've heard about Saudi Arabia, and had a sort of idea about things like this and what happened there.......I think that some Muslims prefer Middle East to stay like this, though.

Re: The Satanic Verses

Jackwc — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:55:57 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 01/11/2012 14:55

HISTORY LESSON TIEM!

Saudi Arabia, as the best example, was Christian Europe five centuries ago, essentially. Oppressive misogynistic laws? Killing homosexuals? Death by stoning? An obsession with "purifying the world"? That's what it was like in Europe just over half a century ago. The last time the Muslims Nations and European Christians clashed, during the crusades, they were both pretty like-minded in that they were striking towards the complete eradication of each other, or the "infidels". Since then, however, Europe was over-taken by a number of revolutions which lead to a separation of Church and State.

This separation of Church and State thus took archaic religious moralizing out of the scientific process, allowing for great dynamic shifts in culture and technology that shaped the Western World into a completely different world. The Middle East, unfortunately, never reached that point of separation of Church and State, so they missed out on having a lot of those cultural and technological evolutions, until about 100 years ago when Middle Eastern oil made countries which has once been of little importance on the world stage to have a new world prominence, such as Saudi Arabia, and gave them a lot of money, thus allowing people who had not had five hundred years of social change to have five hundred years of TECHNOLOGY. This lead to a lot of violence and social unrest that the area is still experiencing today.

But I digress.

Essentially, had the Middle East had the shift to divide Church and State BEFORE Europe had, they would right now have reversed roles, because the Middle East of NOW is a lot like the Europe of THEN.

Re: The Satanic Verses

Facetious — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 07:21:04 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 01/11/2012 12:21

Bork wrote:

Islam and Christianity are pretty much the same. The difference is that in most Christian countries reason now rules instead of superstitious beliefs. Islam is pretty much where Christianity was a few hundred years ago.

(My head is reeling from reading "Brother in the Land" currently, so maybe some parts of my posts may not make sense)

Yes, they have mostly similar beliefs, so I never understood the hate and all.....
Can you, err, explain your post further? With examples and such?

Re: The Satanic Verses

Facetious — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 07:15:04 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 01/11/2012 12:15

GARY wrote:

Eggman/Walrus/Taxman wrote:

GARY wrote:

.

Well, 2 me the fact that Salman Rushdie had a death sentence given him by the Islamic leaders is just more evidence of how quite intolerant a religion it is. They have also called for the death of people just for drawing cartoons about Islam.

Have you read the book Eggman :?:

Hey, hey, hey now 🫵 Watch it. I'm a Muslim too, Gary, remember that.

Umm, no, I haven't, though I have found a PDF file of the book online. So at least my problem of trying to find a copy is solved. I can just read it off the Internet. :D

I'm not here 2 make friends at the expense of the truth Eggman.

Now, YOU need 2 REMEMBER, that the reason "You are a Muslim" is, your parents or (guardians) are.

You may decide as you get older that you do not want 2 be a Muslim.

As far as "watching it" umm...

NO

And if you want 2 know why just take a gander at all the shit I have gone through on BEA for being a Bible believing, creation believing Christian.

🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐

.

Woah, woah, woah, calm DOWN now........
Yes, my parents are Muslims, and so am I one. And I am not really sure that I will decide that I don't want to be a Muslim when I'm older. Why should I? Does it harm me? Why do people of other religions think negatively of Islam, anyway?

I'd be interested in that. You posted that in the religion forum?

Re: The Satanic Verses

Bork — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 18:20:21 GMT

Author: Bork

Posted: 01/10/2012 23:20

Islam and Christianity are pretty much the same. The difference is that in most Christian countries reason now rules instead of superstitious beliefs. Islam is pretty much where Christianity was a few hundred years ago.

Re: The Satanic Verses

Jackwc — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:48:50 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 01/10/2012 19:48

What's the difference? You're all Judeo-Christian religions, you're all basically the same...

The only difference is the political attitudes of the Middle East, which are for the most part abhorant, specifically in countries like Saudi Arabia. But keep in mind, Eggman comes from Pakistan, which is considerably more progressive than his neighbours. A lot of books are still blacklisted, and homosexuality is still illegal, but women's rights are making great strides there and they're really moving away from any semblance of archaic sharia.

Re: The Satanic Verses

GARY — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 14:36:47 GMT

Author: GARY

Posted: 01/10/2012 19:36

Eggman/Walrus/Taxman wrote:

GARY wrote:

Re: The Satanic Verses

Facetious — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 11:24:36 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 01/10/2012 16:24

GARY wrote:

Re: The Satanic Verses

GARY — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:33:43 GMT

Author: GARY

Posted: 01/10/2012 14:33

.

Well, 2 me the fact that Salman Rushdie had a death sentence given him by the Islamic leaders is just more evidence of how quite intolerant a religion it is. They have also called for the death of people just for drawing cartoons about Islam.

Have you read the book Eggman ❓

Re: The Satanic Verses

Bork — Sat, 7 Jan 2012 11:58:55 GMT

Author: Bork

Posted: 01/07/2012 16:58

Didn't read it but have been meaning to for a loooong time to find out what all that ruckus was really about.

The Satanic Verses

Facetious — Sat, 7 Jan 2012 06:51:17 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 01/07/2012 11:51

So this is one book that is banned in my country, and it's by this bloke named Salman Rushdie. So I created this thread, and it'll be like a discussion about The Satanic Verses.
Hey, I just realized that The Satanic Verses can be a great name for a band!