Best Ever Albums

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Thu, 1 Nov 2012 02:05:01 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/01/2012 06:05

If an album contains more than two or three tracks of new material, then I don't think it should be flagged as a compilation, but I guess it also depends on how many tracks there are on the album, so maybe a % might be a better way of doing it e.g. if 80%+ of the tracks are previously released, it is a compilation, but it might not always be so clear-cut.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:01:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/31/2012 18:01

19loveless91 wrote:

I think an important note should be, that the tracks on an album/compilation were previously released. For example, I don't think it's a compilation (in the way that we use this word at least) if an album is a combo of tracks by Various Artists which weren't released prior to that, but were rather made for the album.

How about if it's kind of half and half? As in various artists and some of the tracks are previously released and some aren't. This happens quite a bit on sountrack albums for example.

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:48:23 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/24/2012 11:48

lethalnezzle wrote:

Do you mean remixes of a single artist, or remixes by a single artist?

Under the above, Casino Classics by Saint Etienne *is* a compilation because the album contains remixes of tracks by Saint Etienne which mostly already exist on other releases. However, Disco by Pet Shop Boys *isn't* a compilation because the same artist is releasing it as new material (excuse the out of date examples, they are just for debate).

I appreciate the definitions are not yet totally clear cut, so anybody is still welcome to contribute amends, and I take on board the comment about new material on compilation albums. If the content is entirely (or almost entirely) new, then I agree that shouldn't be classed as a compilation (for BEA).

EDIT: Important also to distinguish 'mix' albums (as opposed to remix), typically by a DJ, containing a list of tracks by various artists (which would be classed as a compilation).

Re: Compilation albums

19loveless91 — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:10:45 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 10/24/2012 11:10

I think an important note should be, that the tracks on an album/compilation were previously released. For example, I don't think it's a compilation (in the way that we use this word at least) if an album is a combo of tracks by Various Artists which weren't released prior to that, but were rather made for the album.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:02:45 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/24/2012 11:02

albummaster wrote:

An album is NOT deemed a compilation if it is any of the following:
a remix album containing original material recorded by a single artist

Do you mean remixes of a single artist, or remixes by a single artist?

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 06:55:45 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/24/2012 10:55

I'm not sure if enough time has elapsed to cover all cases, so this will stay fluid until things have settled down more, but over the past couple of weeks a few common categorisations are emerging to help create a definition for BEA's purposes:

An album *is* deemed a "compilation" if it is any of the following:
a 'twofer' album (combination of two or more albums packaged as a single unit)
a box set
a combination of tracks by 'various artists' (all of which are previously released)
a 'greatest hits' album
a 'retrospective' of a certain time period within an artist's career e.g. 1980-88
a 'mix' album, typically by a DJ, containing tracks by 'various artists'

An album is NOT deemed a compilation if it is any of the following:
a studio album containing mostly new material
a live album recorded over one or more concerts within the same tour
a remix album released as new material

(EDIT: amended to take into account feedback)

I think the above is reasonably clear, and hopefully in line with what has been discussed in the rest of the thread. The above can be refined further/debated as more cases come to light.

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:40:12 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/17/2012 06:40

I agree, and that's why I wanted to try and draw up some guidelines so that everybody can tag consistently, otherwise people won't be able to trust the data. Under the above, I'd say Mr. Blue Sky is a compilation album because the own label states that it is, and most people would see it as such:

Quote:

"Use the 'Compilation' tag in the same way as other discographies, collectors, shops, and the general public use it; to indicate a 'Greatest Hits', 'Best Of', or otherwise themed gathering of tracks, usually taken from a variety of previously issued sources.

Re: Compilation albums

Mirek — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:05:47 GMT

Author: Mirek

Posted: 10/15/2012 14:05

Mr. Blue Sky: The Very Best Of Electric Light Orchestra by Electric Light Orchestra (2012) - it's "compilation" of 11 well known tracks (plus one unknown) but most of them are new versions, recorded again by Jeff Lynne. The versions almost the same but there are some nuances. And is it new album or compilation? IMO for the sight it is but if you think about it more and more it isn't clear.

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 03:40:00 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/15/2012 07:40

CalamityCat wrote:

I really like the idea of flagging an album as a compliation.

Could you implement a voting system of yes and no? Much like last.fm where the majority is the decider.

This will happen once tags are introduced, but not for album attributes.

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 03:36:34 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/15/2012 07:36

gtroda wrote:

I would not call Physical Graffitti a compilation because even though some of the tracks are outtake those outtakes were not previously released to the public.

Agree, don't think should be (or is)

gtroda wrote:

An interesting one that I've questioned is The Masterplan by Oasis. In Europe this is definitely a compilation as it's all previously released B-Sides. However in the US the majority of those singles and their B-Sides were never available commercially before The Masterplan was released.

This would probably be flagged as a compilation if it's previously released material.

gtroda wrote:

Another interesting one is Rattle and Hum by U2. Most of it is new songs but there are some live recordings of previously released songs. It's essentially a soundtrack album.

I don't think this should be classified as a compilation (& not classified as such on Wikipedia or Discogs)

Under the definition in a previous post, the last paragraph said, 'if in doubt, the flag should not be used' and I think that would be a sensible approach to this, because otherwise the temptation might be to go a bit mad with this, tag everything, and then lose the main benefit of having this in the first place.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:20:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/13/2012 21:20

I really like the idea of flagging an album as a compliation.

Could you implement a voting system of yes and no? Much like last.fm where the majority is the decider.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 16:30:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/13/2012 20:30

I would not call Physical Graffitti a compilation because even though some of the tracks are outtake those outtakes were not previously released to the public.

An interesting one that I've questioned is The Masterplan by Oasis. In Europe this is definitely a compilation as it's all previously released B-Sides. However in the US the majority of those singles and their B-Sides were never available commercially before The Masterplan was released.

Another interesting one is Rattle and Hum by U2. Most of it is new songs but there are some live recordings of previously released songs. It's essentially a soundtrack album.

I'm guessing on this site these two would fall into compilations.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 16:26:54 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/13/2012 20:26

I am in favor of adding the compilation tag and allowing the ability for the user to decide if they want to inact a filter or not.

I find it hard to believe that people will change what they put on their chart and believe their favorite albums to be just because there is an extra tag on it. If it's a compilation album it is right to call it as such.

I would also be in favor of adding other such tags for things like live albums and remix albums.

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:31:21 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/13/2012 19:31

this is Best Ever Albums & we don't record the date that singles were released.

So, this is the next best thing, short of changing the entire website.

Re: Compilation albums

RFNAPLES — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:01:57 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 10/13/2012 14:01

Well if it is not really a Trojan horse....

But it really doesn't fix the singles release date problem does it?

Re: Compilation albums

albummaster — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:40:01 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 10/13/2012 13:40

RFNAPLES wrote:

I disagree. I believe the filter will cause some albums to be removed from overall charts because of the perceived stigma thus reducing the rankings for same.

The overall chart will not be affected. A filter has only been added to the 'top rated' page and I don't think it should impact on a person's decision to include compilations in any of their charts (I've got Legend by Bob Marley in my own chart which I happen to enjoy very much & I've no plans to remove it).

I think most people should find this to be a helpful improvement to the top-rated page, and it shouldn't get in the way of any people that don't because the default filter is to show compilation albums (you need to explicitly change the filter to hide them). So it's the same as before, but now with more flexibility.

Re: Compilation albums

RFNAPLES — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:23:15 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 10/13/2012 13:23

Unfortunately the suggested automation is also erred but expedient.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:19:49 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/13/2012 13:19

RFNAPLES wrote:

A song's release date is not necessarily the album's release date. Historically many singles were released prior to an album's release.

True, but at the same time having 'All Along The Watchtower' in the top songs of the '80's is ridiculous. By filtering compilations you make anomalies such as this far less likely.

Re: Compilation albums

RFNAPLES — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:16:43 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 10/13/2012 13:16

A song's release date is not necessarily the album's release date. Historically many singles were released prior to an album's release.

Re: Compilation albums

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 09:03:09 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/13/2012 13:03

RFNAPLES wrote:

I disagree. I believe the filter will cause some albums to be removed from overall charts because of the perceived stigma thus reducing the rankings for same.

This is true. Whilst I don't believe compilations should be considered albums for the charts, if we are to consider them as such then flagging them up may make people more wary of including them on their charts which, whilst I disagree with it, shouldn't put people off. But I fear it will.

However, I think the pro's (like the ability to stop certain songs being involved in year and decade charts outside of their release, like albummaster's '...Watchtower' example) outweigh the con's.