Best Ever Albums

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Robert Anton Wilson — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:57:19 GMT

Author: Robert Anton Wilson

Posted: 10/25/2012 21:57

This is by far my favorite thread in a forum in a long time if not ever either here at BEA or anywhere. I feel like writing a treatise just based on the comments I read from you. Nearly every other line sets me a reeling. A pleasure my dear children, a real pleasure.

Youth is more open minded and old-age is more experienced. These are not subjects to debate these are facts but the interpretation and the meaning you give to those facts is itself subject to debate. (Yes there is a physiological basis to this which is called brain plasticity). Being open minded or experienced are neither necessarily good nor bad, they can be both or neither - as long as you are open minded about it and have experience enough to understand it of course.

Youth is more open minded because it is easier to fill an empty vessel and old-age is more experienced because by pure mathematical calculations I have been listening to music in my life for more hours than some of you have been born.

I think that people who love music and who bother to stop in a site like BEA and to comment on the forums and listen to new albums because they see them on a list or hear comments on this site are highly likely to be both more open minded AND more experienced about music than the average person - or are working towards becoming it.

Dang time flies ...

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

lightmyway — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:23:32 GMT

Author: lightmyway

Posted: 10/25/2012 21:23

I admit I am probably biased towards the music of my middle and high school years, but I like newer music just fine and continue to investigate new bands regularly. It's the older stuff that I have a hard time getting into for some reason.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

gussteivi — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:10:18 GMT

Author: gussteivi

Posted: 10/25/2012 21:10

Norman Bates wrote:

That's stretching it a bit!

Well I agree that her music isn't exactly a spitting image of The Beach Boys', but:

Quote:

Inspired to pursue pop music after discovering the Beach Boys’ Pet Sounds, Margo Guryan, a schooled jazz pianist, crafted brilliant pop gems

I'd say it's not unfair to say she was influenced by them.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Norman Bates — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 17:02:19 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 10/25/2012 21:02

gussteivi wrote:

I was referring to the bands/artists that were influenced by The Beach Boys, not The Beach Boys themselves.
(...)
Margo Guryan

That's stretching it a bit!

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

gussteivi — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:57:50 GMT

Author: gussteivi

Posted: 10/25/2012 20:57

Jhereko wrote:

You do realise as a 23 year old who makes a point of listening to incredibly obscure 60s albums and who makes a point of rolling his eyes at the majority of modern music, you fit that word more than most on here? :)

Of course I do, I will never deny the fact that I'm a hypocrite of gargantuan proportions.

My only defence is that I never listen to obscure music for obscurity's sake. I've listened to many obscure albums that I think are shit and I would never have them anywhere near any of my charts.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:20:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 13:20

gussteivi wrote:

Beach Boys was also just an example, I'm far from the biggest fan of them on the site, but their influence was undeniable.

This.

They were almost as influential as Rakim.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 08:18:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 12:18

gussteivi wrote:

I think you all know by now which word I use to describe that phenomenon.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

gussteivi — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:48:56 GMT

Author: gussteivi

Posted: 10/25/2012 08:48

Polythene Pam wrote:

That's not to say the great music is only made by younger people, because it obviously isn't. Still I would assume most people would agree the a greater portion of the music enjoyed is written by younger people?

Well, I think this has to do with the fact that rock music becomes unmodern so quickly. A rock musician has to re-invent himself every 5-10 years or else his music is rendered irrelevant, and that's not an easy thing to do apparently.

But if we talk about classical music, most composers had their creative peak in the latter stages of their lives (Beethoven!).

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

gussteivi — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:42:43 GMT

Author: gussteivi

Posted: 10/25/2012 08:42

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Although I do think, having listened to them, Panda Bear isn't all that spectacular,

Me neither, quite the contrary, it was just an example, because I gave Person Pitch a re-listen today.

Quote:

I think most of the members on here are aware of The Beach Boys... and I assume you're alluding to Pet Sound or The Smile Sessions.

I don't think you read my post right (or maybe I didn't express myself properly, being swedish and all), I was referring to the bands/artists that were influenced by The Beach Boys, not The Beach Boys themselves.

Stuff like:
Billy Nicholls
Sagittarius
The Pleasure Fair
The Critters
Peppermint Trolley Company
Picadilly Line
Kaleidoscope UK
Margo Guryan
The Millennium

I know people like Norman Bates or NowaxJim or Mind Movie (what happened to him) are familiar with several of these artists, but they're in the very big minority. Plus, as far as I know, they're not a part of the younger generation here.

Beach Boys was also just an example, I'm far from the biggest fan of them on the site, but their influence was undeniable.

So I'll try to repeat my point: Many members spend a lot of time listening to as much as they can of what's released every year, but when it comes to music from the sixties, they only hear the stuff on RS500 and then claims to "know" sixties music.

For example, Hayden has even written this in his chart description:

Quote:

... I gave your generations music a try. Now it's time for you to give mine a try.

Well, he wrote in some thread that he hadn't even heard of The Hollies 😮
That's like me saying that I know todays music and then don't even know who The White Stripes are (ok, that analogy is not great, but you get my point).

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:30:26 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 08:30

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Thanks, Magenta (the member formerly known as Manc Soul Sister?).

I guess I need to find myself an appropriate symbol... 🤣

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Mr. Shankly — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 00:07:54 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 10/25/2012 04:07

Thanks, Magenta (the member formerly known as Manc Soul Sister?). I'm looking forward to your recommendations. You are clearly:

Link

😉

Uh, don't read too much into the fact that it's Frank Sinatra. 😨 🤣

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:57:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 03:57

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Fair enough. I totally admire and respect your viewpoint on this. I guess I'm just speaking from personal experience, and I'm not saying I'm closed minded. I'm just being honest about where I'm at in life. Since you're about my age, what do you recommend highly from the last couple of years? What has challenged you at first and then later embraced?

Who knows? In a year or so, I may be in a different place and totally reassess this theory... and I have found some new things to challenge me. I've been checking out Brian Eno, for example.

I'll PM you a list as it would drag this thread way off topic if I were to post it here...

😁

Of course it changes though... there are also times when emotionally all I want is a comfortable old Smiths, Joy Division or Cramps shoe to make me feel happy and whole again... but I don't think that has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my age. The only thing that points to my age is what I choose as my comfy shoe, not the fact of the shoe 😁

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Mr. Shankly — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:46:56 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 10/25/2012 03:46

Magenta wrote:

Sorry Shankly but from my own personal experiences I can't agree with your assessments of post 30 musical listening at all.. you make us sound like a right bunch of old fuddy duddies.... 😕

Speaking as an old lady, being musically challenged is what I live for... I love listening to stuff that I don't know and seeking out new experiences. I buy on average 5 albums a week and usually at least 3 of those are by bands or artists that I didn't previously know or didn't know well. They might not be 'new' artists in the just released sense, but they are unknown to me which means for my brain they are new. The music that I listen to now may never become as personally treasured as what I listened to in my teens and twenties because of the associations I have with it - but I don't know - the jury is still out on that one for me as I keep being surprised.

I actually think Pam may be onto something with the brain theory though. One of the techniques to stave off some age related brain diseases (like dementia), that I have heard of, is to aim to experience something new as often as possible - it can be as simple as changing the route you walk to work to listening to a new album (for example). I am not sure how well founded that is scientifically but I can kind of see how that might stimulate your brain in the same way as all the new experiences you have when you are young do during your youth.

But Shanks... you definitely need to start challenging yourself more musically... trust me it is fun :lol:

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:41:20 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 03:41

Sorry Shankly but from my own personal experiences I can't agree with your assessments of post 30 musical listening at all.. you make us sound like a right bunch of old fuddy duddies.... 😕

Speaking as an old lady, being musically challenged is what I live for... I love listening to stuff that I don't know and seeking out new experiences. I buy on average 5 albums a week and usually at least 3 of those are by bands or artists that I didn't previously know or didn't know well. They might not be 'new' artists in the just released sense, but they are unknown to me which means for my brain they are new. The music that I listen to now may never become as personally treasured as what I listened to in my teens and twenties because of the associations I have with it - but I don't know - the jury is still out on that one for me as I keep being surprised.

I actually think Pam may be onto something with the brain theory though. One of the techniques to stave off some age related brain diseases (like dementia), that I have heard of, is to aim to experience something new as often as possible - it can be as simple as changing the route you walk to work to listening to a new album (for example). I am not sure how well founded that is scientifically but I can kind of see how that might stimulate your brain in the same way as all the new experiences you have when you are young do during your youth.

But Shanks... you definitely need to start challenging yourself more musically... trust me it is fun 🤣

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Mr. Shankly — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 23:18:16 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 10/25/2012 03:18

The Development of the brain = an interesting hypothesis. How about we just call it development of music taste, which for a music lover, I think is connected to personal development. Pitchfork has an interesting feature where they ask artists what they were listening to heavily at certain ages. There's sort of a development subtext to this feature.

Here's one featuring one of my heroes, Johnny Marr:

http://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/8808-johnny-marr/

Here's my development theory:

Preteen-19: You're being introduced to a variety of music from the radio, MTV, or all those internet sources (probably more likely nowadays) and you're starting to figure out what you like. You're also starting to shape your identity and music plays a big part.

20-30: The exploratory years. These are the years, I think most music listeners do their most exploring. This is the time, where your musical palate will probably broaden the most. You're also developing your listening skills and learning how to pick out specific elements of a composition and listening more closely and critically to music. By age 30 though, you also start to get a really firm idea what musically fits into the like and don't like categories.

30-40: You're interested in hearing new things occasionally but you're probably not going to seek them out as much as in the past. You're also revisiting familiar sonic territory, and in some ways, you're appreciating the music that shaped your musical identity even more. For example, in 2009, when the remasters came out, I became a Beatlemaniac all over again, returning to where my love of music first started and in some ways appreciating the albums and songs on a deeper level. Also, you're starting to get a bit jaded because more often than not, you hear something, and think, "I've heard this before, and it's been done better." There's very little that sounds actually new to your ears anymore. It's sad in a way. I want my 20's back. 🙁

40 +: I don't know yet... but I sense my exploration is declining somewhat. I'll be honest and say most often, if I have the choice between putting on something that I know I'm going to enjoy... music that makes me relaxed, happy, etc. and being challenged, more often I'm going to opt for the former over the latter. This has to do with the stress of life and the time constraints that come with getting older. Even in your 20's, you probably have a job and are starting to get a sense of this.

But then there's John Cale, who apparently was a Snoop Dogg fan at age 65. 🤣 Interesting:

http://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/8959-john-cale/

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 22:38:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 02:38

Just taking a guess here 😁

This idea of age affecting the way people explore music possibly has a lot to do with the development of the brain. For example a child's capacity to learn a foreign language is far greater than that of a fully developed adult. Perhaps it is possible that the ability for someone to expand their musical horizons is easier and more natural at a time when their mind is still developing?

There is also something to be said about the people who write music (this is getting more subjective but w/e) when are most bands writing their best music?

The Beatles
Joy Division
Oasis
Nirvana
The Clash
Bob Dylan
The Rolling Stones
My Bloody Valentine
The Strokes
Coldplay
The Velvet Underground
etc etc

That's not to say the great music is only made buy younger people, because it obviously isn't. Still I would assume most people would agree the a greater portion of the music enjoyed is written by younger people?

The main thought I have on this is that younger people seem to have a greater capacity for music, especially if it is challenging in nature (and i don't mean challenging in some wanky avant garde manner) I mean challenging in that it is something new for the individual.

I am not sure any of that makes sense 🤣

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Mr. Shankly — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 22:07:09 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 10/25/2012 02:07

gussteivi wrote:

So my point is, since so many of you enjoy derivative stuff like Panda Bear, why not listen to the bands that ripped off The Beach Boys 45 years ago aswell?

Although I do think, having listened to them, Panda Bear isn't all that spectacular, I think most of the members on here are aware of The Beach Boys... and I assume you're alluding to Pet Sound or The Smile Sessions. 🤔
Bates, who's my age, probably got it right, in his assessment.

thejoj96 wrote:

There's probably some bias with some people.

Again, I don't think we're talking about "bias" so much as we are talking about preference and personal experience. What I don't like about the word bias is, it implies a conscious decision rather than an emotional connection and an unconscious feeling that motivates someone's actions.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

RFNAPLES — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:59:46 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 10/25/2012 01:59

Everybody is biased.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

Anonymous — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:53:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/25/2012 01:53

There's probably some bias with some people.

Re: Music, Age and Personal Preferences

gussteivi — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 13:02:12 GMT

Author: gussteivi

Posted: 10/24/2012 17:02

So, I'm 23 and did not grow up listening to (almost) any rock music, therefore I would claim that my musical tastes are completely unbiased.

...

That's of course not true, I've been influenced by many sources, most notably BEA (which means I've been influenced indirectly by RS500 and P4k and maybe even Scaruffi 😨 ) and Georgiy Starosti, who is the only music reviewer I've come across who seems to be looking for the same things in music as me (his ratings are often dead wrong, though). Anyway, the latter definetily gives me a bias towards the "oldies".

Regarding age bias on BEA, I'd say the music discussed in the forums is by a big margin dominated by the more recent years, except for the "big names" of the past: Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and some more.

However, taking BEA on the whole, including the many members who may not partake in many discussions, but do vote in polls and such I think it sort of evens out. I have however noticed a slight trend that people feel it's not cool to vote for the most "obvious" choice in the tournament, I think you all know by now which word I use to describe that phenomenon.

I read somewhere that it's scientifically proven that you're more open-minded towards new music when you're younger (I think it was Cracked, so it must be true).

I think todays technology and availability etc has given birth to a new kind of music fan, one that wants to listen to everything so he can claim that he "knows" music (I definetily belong in that category to some extent). But I think there's something being lost with that approach. As Mr Shankly said in another thread:

Quote:

It's almost overwhelming the amount one can acquire and listen to, and it can be really hard to devote the "right" amount or degree of attention to a piece of music nowadays. I hate to sound like a Grandpa Shankly, but in the old days, there weren't as many distractions, and basically there was only one way to get music, to go to the store and buy it. Since this required more of an investment in both time and money, I think people would necessarily take the time to listen to and absorb albums.

Anyway, one thing that surprises me is that many members here spend a lot of time listening to every single album released this year, but have not taken the time to also explore what's beyond what's on RS500 from the 60's. Because with the internet it's actually not that hard, there are heaps of psychedelic music blogs who have gathered a substantial amount of albums that would otherwise be impossible to encounter (one of many benefits with modern technology in regards to discovering music). So my point is, since so many of you enjoy derivative stuff like Panda Bear, why not listen to the bands that ripped off The Beach Boys 45 years ago aswell?
This also leads to the older teams in the BYT to be "classic" and "boring", because if the repective captains would include non-classic albums chances are nobody has heard them, which usually means death in these tournaments.