Best Ever Albums

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

albummaster — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:38:42 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/13/2012 12:38

Surprised how close it was, but the best team definitely won!

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 07:18:01 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/13/2012 12:18

Didn't realise there was such a large Milli Vanilli/Proclaimers fanbase on the site, well done to team '88 for gaining 15 votes from such a brave selection �'�

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Mr. Shankly — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 06:09:47 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 11/13/2012 11:09

�'� Thanks to my co-captain, Joy of Division and thanks to the BEA voters and albummaster for this great match. Looking forward to round two. 😁

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Mr. Shankly — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:55:03 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 11/13/2012 05:55

Saoirse wrote:

Im sorry, but saying "It's a Man's world" is in anyway feminiist is almost as bad as calling "I Kissed a Girl" feminist (or pro-GLBT). There are different ways in which that classification is totally false and maybe the comparison is a bit extreme ("I Kissed a Girl" is just a tawdry and juvenile wannabe sex-tease), but it's one of the worse ways to try and praise that song. "It's a Man's world" is looking at women through a man's eyes and ultimately suggesting that their needed to "complete" the man's world and deserve praise from, yep, Men. Even though you can argue about all the nuances and sub-meanings, ultimately it is a song that suggests women are there to complete Men... and even if the song is meant as female "praise" it only argues that through how they act towards Men... it doesn't have any female voice or look outside it's own deeply-rooted masculinity to try and achieve a truly balanced view of how women and men act towards each other in this world. From a purely Musical perspective it's a great song, but what it actually tries to say is in no way a forward-thinking stance on gender relations...

Fair enough. You make a strong argument, and I can see your point. It's not a progressive song. I don't feel that strongly about the song's lyrics enough to argue about it anymore. My original intent was not to offend anyone, just to offer an alternative viewpoint, but it wasn't meant to be ruffle people's feathers so much, and I certainly wasn't trying to argue for/from a sexist position and standpoint... Should we talk about abortion next? 🤣

Purple: I'm sorry a disagreement about the interpretation of a song got personal. It didn't need to be, but your response to my interpretation did make it sound like you thought I was a sexist and was projecting my own sexism into my interpretation when nothing could be further from the truth. I'm willing to drop it now.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:54:24 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/13/2012 05:54

1
9
6
6
WINS!

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Tue, 13 Nov 2012 00:19:11 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/13/2012 05:19

Im sorry, but saying "It's a Man's world" is in anyway feminiist is almost as bad as calling "I Kissed a Girl" feminist (or pro-GLBT). There are different ways in which that classification is totally false and maybe the comparison is a bit extreme ("I Kissed a Girl" is just a tawdry and juvenile wannabe sex-tease), but it's one of the worse ways to try and praise that song. "It's a Man's world" is looking at women through a man's eyes and ultimately suggesting that their needed to "complete" the man's world and deserve praise from, yep, Men. Even though you can argue about all the nuances and sub-meanings, ultimately it is a song that suggests women are there to complete Men... and even if the song is meant as female "praise" it only argues that through how they act towards Men... it doesn't have any female voice or look outside it's own deeply-rooted masculinity to try and achieve a truly balanced view of how women and men act towards each other in this world. From a purely Musical perspective it's a great song, but what it actually tries to say is in no way a forward-thinking stance on gender relations...

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Jackwc — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:53:06 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 11/13/2012 04:53

LOL, JAMES BROWN, FEMINIST ICON.

Also, if we're gonna talk feminist anthems, I submit the entire discography of Ani DiFranco. Not A Pretty Woman is a feminist anthem of an album if ever there were one.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Mon, 12 Nov 2012 23:50:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/13/2012 04:50

(1) just be glad I voted for your team, based largely on that single... I'm beginning to regret it.

(2) I've independently believed it was a chauvinistic song since I first heard it, and simply used others points-of-view to back mine up; this doesn't mean it still isn't a great single. It also doesn't mean that my interpretation is the only one; the great thing about art is that almost any interpretation is valid, but you should know that you're in the minority.

(3) I see where you're going with the Huckleberry Finn analogy, and the difference is this: Mark Twain was a vocal comedian of racism, and explicitly stated elsewhere that it did no good; James Brown is a known chauvinist, through his other songs and his relations (look at his marriage record: he was married four times, one of which was on-going through at least two of his other marriages, yet he was discomforted by the fact that his fourth wife married him without a proper annulment for her first husband). I don't believe any art should be banned, but I'm saying that when James Brown sings "the world ain't nothin without a woman", I think he only cares about coming back to that ass after a hard day's work. I mean, look at the rest of his work, it's almost ALL sex.

(4) I indirectly pointed out in my previous post that the song may or may not have been written by a woman; it doesn't matter, it's still chauvinistic. For modern analogies, look at Twilight or 50 Shades of Grey for chauvinism written by women; gender doesn't matter, content and reputation of the author do.

(5) whatever "Attack" you perceive was not personal whatsoever, but my argument was against your asinine argument for the single as a "feminist anthem." I will say, though, that the more I learn of your shit on BEA, the less I respect you. Good day, sir.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Mr. Shankly — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 04:43:22 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 11/11/2012 09:43

purple wrote:

maybe it's just Korea and Yugoslavia, but the rest of the world recognizes its chauvinism. And chauvinism is chauvinism no matter what time or location. It doesn't even matter that the song my have been completely written by a woman, the message is chauvinism. Shankly, your interpretation literally sounds like telling a woman thank you after telling her to make you a sandwich, and calling that feminism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Man's_Man's_Man's_World

I don't believe you read or thought much about my interpretation at all. You had already judged the song, and now you're judging me based on the fact that I offer an alternative explanation that doesn't fit with your worldview. Just to make it clear, I totally believe in equal rights for women; I believe they are the equal of men and should be treated equally in the workplace and otherwise; I'm a democrat, for Chrissake! I was just offering up an alternative interpretation of the song based on historical context and the way the song is written and performed. Wow! Is this why the vote is actually close? 😨

Purple, do you think the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is a racist book that should be banned? Because that would be an equally similar analytically myopic conclusion one could come to.

Edit: Interestingly, the lyrics to the song appear to have actually been written by a woman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_a_Man%27s_Man%27s_Man%27s_World

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Mr. Shankly — Sun, 11 Nov 2012 04:25:52 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 11/11/2012 09:25

Magenta wrote:

If you want to put some extra context into this, maybe you need to read up about your 'feminist icon' James Brown and his behaviour towards women and his wives in particular... The attitude was anything but enlightened and feminist! Maybe the song was written as an apology to one of his wives for his behaviour.. Who knows?

I don't dislike the song, and I agree it is no more or less chauvanistic than many other macho hits from the dark ages that we call the 60s...

But 'feminist anthem' - absolutely no way! I'd stop trying to read to much into it and enjoy it for the song it is...

Although 'feminist anthems' might be an interesting idea for a thread in itself.. :-k

Speaking of semantics, "feminist anthem" probably is the wrong wording and probably isn't accurate.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 22:41:40 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/11/2012 03:41

Any song I feel I have to defend is probably a bit off in some way. 'It's A Man's World' fits that description,

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Facetious — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:01:37 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 11/10/2012 18:01

RFNAPLES wrote:

1988

😲 You're joking. Or albummaster did something to you!

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

RFNAPLES — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:41:28 GMT

Author: RFNAPLES

Posted: 11/10/2012 17:41

1988

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

19loveless91 — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:23:41 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 11/10/2012 17:23

Maybe it is. Around here we don't (yet) get too politically correct for everything I guess. You can refer to Rolling Stone to prove the song's chauvinism all you want, I still agree with this:

Mr. Shankly wrote:

He is saying it is a fact of life that men rule the world economically and otherwise (in 1966), but women are just as important and men are incomplete and can't make it without them.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:57:41 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/10/2012 16:57

maybe it's just Korea and Yugoslavia, but the rest of the world recognizes its chauvinism. And chauvinism is chauvinism no matter what time or location. It doesn't even matter that the song my have been completely written by a woman, the message is chauvinism. Shankly, your interpretation literally sounds like telling a woman thank you after telling her to make you a sandwich, and calling that feminism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Man's_Man's_Man's_World

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:52:31 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/10/2012 15:52

polls open

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

19loveless91 — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 04:01:11 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 11/10/2012 09:01

Well I disagree about it being a feminist anthem and the song hinting at "equal rights" and that BS, but otherwise I agree with Shankly's interpretation. At the very least I don't see how this song could be seen as "blatant chauvinism". Especially when you consider the time it was made in.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:13:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/10/2012 06:13

If you want to put some extra context into this, maybe you need to read up about your 'feminist icon' James Brown and his behaviour towards women and his wives in particular... The attitude was anything but enlightened and feminist! Maybe the song was written as an apology to one of his wives for his behaviour.. Who knows?

I don't dislike the song, and I agree it is no more or less chauvanistic than many other macho hits from the dark ages that we call the 60s...

But 'feminist anthem' - absolutely no way! I'd stop trying to read to much into it and enjoy it for the song it is...

Although 'feminist anthems' might be an interesting idea for a thread in itself.. 🤔

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Mr. Shankly — Sat, 10 Nov 2012 00:02:45 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 11/10/2012 05:02

Magenta wrote:

:-k

I interpret it as... Man goes out into the big wide world and earns all the moola he can, because he is the economic power house. But hey wouldn't life be crap if he didn't have a sweet little wifey at home to ease his poor overworked fevered brow... When he comes home with his hard earned cash. We'll keep wifey in her place economically by telling her that the world wouldn't be the same without her... But please woman never ever think of leaving the house because it is a men's world after all...

So as a woman I find it incredibly insulting to even infer (even in jest) that this is a 'feminist anthem'! It's just another fairly chauvanistic song from the 60s.. Nothing more nothing less!

Fair enough. No insult intended. I think the song is open to interpretation though. But what about the last two lines? What do those mean to you? Also, I can think of songs by Otis Redding and The Rolling Stones and others around this time that are more blatantly chauvinistic and mysogynist than this one. To clarify just a bit more, the prison I'm talking about is an emotional prison, which is to say yes, men have created all these achievements, but they are emotionally devoid and lacking without women. They are incomplete. It's an interesting song. Interpret it how you want, but you also have to keep in mind the historical context too. Men weren't really writing up with women type songs at the time. But this could possibly be one, albeit in a very subtle but macho way. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit. 🤔

Also, the way the music swells during the final line of each verse suggests that that is the important line and message of the song.

Re: [CLOSED] BYT - GROUP C|FIGHT 9: 1966 DEFEATS 1988 (21-15)

Anonymous — Fri, 9 Nov 2012 23:53:36 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/10/2012 04:53

🤔

I interpret it as... Man goes out into the big wide world and earns all the moola he can, because he is the economic power house. But hey wouldn't life be crap if he didn't have a sweet little wifey at home to ease his poor overworked fevered brow... When he comes home with his hard earned cash. We'll keep wifey in her place economically by telling her that the world wouldn't be the same without her... But please woman never ever think of leaving the house because it is a men's world after all...

So as a woman I find it incredibly insulting to even infer (even in jest) that this is a 'feminist anthem'! It's just another fairly chauvanistic song from the 60s.. Nothing more nothing less!