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Languishing in Finnegan's Wake

badfaith — Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:06:29 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/03/2009 14:06

Well folks, I've decided to have a Go at the big one... Finnegan's Wake has been sitting pristinely unread on my shelf for about four years now, but now I'm going to to have a crack at it.
It had a big reputation in my own mind before I bought it, and I've only built it up even more since... to the point that it's become a terrifying prospect. Like the scene at the begining of 2001, with the apes, It sits on the shelf staring out at me like an inscrutable monolith, daring me to try.
It wouldn't be so bad if I was what you'd call by any academic standard an intelligent person, but the best I can say is that I'm a glutton for mental punishment. To draw an analogy, I'm no opera singer, but I can just about hold a tune. Will book my padded cell in advance, just in case it all goes wrong, and my stupid little brain pops a fuse.

Re: Books

badfaith — Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:50:38 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/03/2009 00:50

If i'm honest, the only link it's helped me establish is betwwen my arse and my elbow... and I'm not convinced about that... my elbow has five toes, not four and a thumb!

Re: Books

Richie Hunt — Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:15:02 GMT

Author: Richie Hunt

Posted: 10/03/2009 00:15

haha, thats forward thinking for you. Badfaith, I can only think reading those books has helped solve this link between fame and crime. I bid you good luck on your journey as you search for literature which may be used to hasten the downfall of modern man.

Re: Books

badfaith — Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:27:23 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/02/2009 13:27

We could then infer, that anyone seeking fame is therfore seeking immunity for a criminal predisposition.

By jove you've cracked it!.... we can arrest anyone who appears on tv talent shows and charge them with conspiring to commit crime.

We may just bring Cowell and his cronies down yet!

Re: Books

telefunker — Fri, 2 Oct 2009 06:38:54 GMT

Author: telefunker

Posted: 10/02/2009 10:38

hah! yeah, 99.9% of criminals do fall at the first hurdle..

Re: Books

Richie Hunt — Fri, 2 Oct 2009 05:32:04 GMT

Author: Richie Hunt

Posted: 10/02/2009 09:32

telefunker wrote:

Quote:

the moral of the story folks? ..get famous!

IMORTANT!

get famous... before becoming involved with any of the previously mentioned social indiscretions.

Re: Books

telefunker — Fri, 2 Oct 2009 04:52:01 GMT

Author: telefunker

Posted: 10/02/2009 08:52

yeah, i think it's quite self-evident that fame (elevated social status to the point of being a cultural idol) offers considerable leeway for eccentricity and even criminal activity.. as far as i can see this appears to hold true across cultures

if an mp/congressman steals money from the taxpayer to fund his daughters college or home renovation project, the most he's likely to receive by the way of punishment would be a slap on the wrist or the negative publicity of the incident itself.. if a guy in the street steals the equivalent amount from a cash register he's hauled before the criminal courts and invariably prosecuted, fined, jailed, whatever

if a president or prime minister kills innocent people in the name of war, it's collateral damage and again, the worst he can hope for is a bit of damage to his reputation.. if a street gang leader follows suit, he's a monster, animal, menace to society etc and a prime candidate for the electric chair

so, much as i love michael jackson's music, it's bleedingly obvious that if he were a window cleaner or a bank clerk, he would have been signing the sex offenders register a long time ago - even if he were indeed innocent - as the threshold for his idiosyncracies is stretched even at the level of demi-god..

the moral of the story folks? ..get famous!

Re: Books

badfaith — Thu, 1 Oct 2009 10:18:48 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/01/2009 14:18

Had Gary Glitter made better albums, perhaps he'd be in the clear!

Re: Books

badfaith — Thu, 1 Oct 2009 10:17:41 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/01/2009 14:17

Actually, I don't know what to make of it all, I'm bewildered by the fact that what with current levels of hysteria about Paedophilia, and the merest suggestion of it, people are practically forming lynch mobs (not defending kiddy fiddlers you understand), we have cases like R Kelly, Michael Jackson, Gary Glitter, and now Roman Polanski' situation has come to a head, Where Glitter may as well be Hannibal Lecter in the public's eyes, and his music is all but erased from cultural history, but jackson is defended with a passion by his fans, Kelly is able to dissolve into the scenery, and the main defence of Polanski is that he's a brilliant man, and should be left alone.
While I know One of these cahps is a convicted pederast, and the last has admitted the incident, the thing that gets me, iis that if such a suggestion were made about an ordinary bloke, he could probablly expect total ostracision from society, no question.

The message I take from it is that the degree to which society will overlook a crime, is in direct corelation to the degree to which you have entertained us.... "it's OK that you've killed the pope, because you made a cracking work of art once, we'll forgive you"

People soon forget their morals when it suits them to do so...hypocracy!

Re: Books

Elston — Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:59:13 GMT

Author: Elston

Posted: 10/01/2009 13:59

Hehe, no, I'm sure Roman can afford better. Although we do go way back: he used to send me the most intriguing pictures. We share very similar aesthetic tastes. But I remember now, once he sent me this rather gruesome picture of (what looked like) Sharon Tate, and said that if I was into that sort of stuff he could have me flown to a Gothic castle in Czech Republic for 3 weeks, no charge, but that I'd have to bring my "own prepubescent victim" (quotes added). I wasn't quite sure what he was getting at, but in any case, it's horrible what they're doing to him.

Re: Books

badfaith — Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:20:25 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 10/01/2009 13:20

Elston wrote:

Richie Hunt wrote:

Elston, you were doing so well and then... your penis took over

My goodness Richie, do refrain from such vulgar language. It appears I've been grossly misunderstood. My admiration for youthful beauty is purely an aesthetic vice, and is no cause for concern. Does one not pause in awe of the spectacles of nature: the setting sun, a blossoming garden, the luscious thighs of an enterprising boy? One is only saying Yes to God's creation, one is affirming his devotion to God in the highest sense imaginable.

Are you defending Roman Polanski in upcoming trial?

Re: Books

Elston — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:28:43 GMT

Author: Elston

Posted: 09/30/2009 15:28

Richie Hunt wrote:

Elston, you were doing so well and then... your penis took over

Re: Books

badfaith — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:13:14 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 09/30/2009 13:13

I will have a look at that!

Re: Books

telefunker — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:03:14 GMT

Author: telefunker

Posted: 09/30/2009 09:03

i've already mentioned it in another thread, but i would strongly recommend checking out "prometheus rising" by robert anton wilson

he synergizes the mind models of freud and jung - which do appear to be fundamentally similar, draws direct comparisons with buddhism and the occult, considers the mind-body connection, speculates on the future of human neurological development and dabbles in a bit of quantum mechanics..

sounds like a mixed bag of oddities i know, but they do all seem to be brushstrokes of the same picture.. which i think is the point of the book.. a bit like one of those magic eye optical illusions..

Re: Books

Richie Hunt — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:38:47 GMT

Author: Richie Hunt

Posted: 09/30/2009 01:38

Elston, you were doing so well and then... your penis took over

Re: Books

badfaith — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:27:19 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 09/29/2009 23:27

Well there are Greeks- a frickin army of em!

But for that you'll have to read the highly unsettling Death in Venice by Thomas Mann... I'm not sure I like the direction of this conversation though!!!!!!

Re: Books

Elston — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:04:06 GMT

Author: Elston

Posted: 09/29/2009 14:04

Hmm, sounds pretty interesting. But I was sort of expecting some riveting man-boy love. Are there any scenes with sexy children perchance?

Re: Books

badfaith — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:45:10 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 09/29/2009 13:45

I think Sartre looks at painstaking detail in an effort to position us in time and space, and capture the uncapturable, but I actually came away from the experience with a more spriritual set of conclusions, than philosophical sophistry bizzarely... God in us, and us in god. Though I certainly couldn't explain it to you adequately.

On the subject of fate, The Illiad is a great read, I think that because it's the first book of western culture, paople think it's going to be like reading shakespeare or something... it's a ripping yarn with childish petulant gods screwing around with the little people, the tale of a city's fall, but really about Achilles, the embodiment of the almost superhuman hero and Hector, a brave man defending his home, hampered by his stupid countrymen, and all with the full knowledge he cannot possibly win... but he does so anyway despite such overwhelming odds that he actually emerges as the greatest hero in your mind.
There's sex, gore violence, humour, everything a growing boy needs. Paticularly funny I thought was that despite having a battle raging around them, two guys often stop to have a chat before taking turns lob spears at each other.

Also like the I Ching view of fate... that we have a constant choice of fates rather than an absolute one.

Will have a mosey at that site though, thanks.

Re: Books

Elston — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:50:36 GMT

Author: Elston

Posted: 09/29/2009 01:50

The biggest problem with Freud, I think, is his writing style, which is incredibly dry. He is quite possibly the most misunderstood writer of all time and I urge anyone to take a look at him. Although it might sound ridiculous, Jung and Freud have more in common than any other psychologists and their differences seem to be grossly exaggerated by their followers. But nonetheless, I also find that Jung's theories make more sense to me. He makes more sense than anyone else that I'm aware of, well until I discovered Nietzsche anyway. Like I say, Freud's writing is very dry, but it is not hard to understand (like Sartre). The best book of his I'd recommend is A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis, which outlines his idea of the unconscious (which was a huge inspiration for Jung), the idea of neuroses, among other things. In terms of actual texts he wrote, I'm not particularly well versed, nevertheless: Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality is fascinating and Civilization and it's Discontents and the Psychopathology of Everyday Life have some intriguing ideas. What is nice about Freud is that he wrote about a great many things and his system of though is surprisingly diverse. People make such a tasteless blunder when they reduce him down to ridiculous theories. He had ideas on just about everything. I always found this website to be helpful.

As for Sartre, I have tried to read him on a number of occasions and always found it to be a maddening experience. I also don't find any of his ideas particularly insightful. Existence before Essence, for example, seems incredibly narrow minded when genetics, heredity, evolution etc. are taken into account. In many ways, I do believe in fate and destiny, and I don't think people really have much control over their lives. But then again they do...What bugs me most about Sartre is his academic approach to philosophy, which makes it very hard for a general audience to ingratiate themselves with his ideas. Personally I find him incredibly overrated and I remain puzzled why he was so highly regarded.

Re: Books

badfaith — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:18:05 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 09/29/2009 01:18

Have Read Beyond Good and Evil, Thus Spoke Zarathustra, and am quite keen on jungian Psychology (have some of the Routledge complete works editions)... kind of sets a frame in which philosophy makes sense to me.

Freud always seemed to suck ass to me, so never bothered to read any of his stuff... WE ARE NOT MECHANICAL ANIMALS!!!

But I have been thinking recently of perusing some Freud, perhaps as a comparitive study... possibly motivated by the desire to have my worst fears about him confirmed... but would be pleased to accept advice on where to start.

Being and Nothingness I found to be a real brain bender... my head actually hurt reading it... but it was all the more rewarding for having made the effort.