Best Ever Albums

Re: Reggae

RoundTheBend — Wed, 2 Nov 2016 00:06:38 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 11/02/2016 04:06

Graeme2 wrote:

I love reggae. Not that sell out crap like ub40, that real ish like early The Police and what's that bloke, aye Marley. Shame he made only one album, but it's great. The real deal though, pure trenchtown riddims aye

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Legend by Bob Marley And The Wailers
Smoke a large one with it for pure authentic vibe. Irie.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Re: Reggae

Graeme2 — Tue, 1 Nov 2016 07:53:13 GMT

Author: Graeme2

Posted: 11/01/2016 11:53

I love reggae. Not that sell out crap like ub40, that real ish like early The Police and what's that bloke, aye Marley. Shame he made only one album, but it's great. The real deal though, pure trenchtown riddims aye

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Legend by Bob Marley And The Wailers
Smoke a large one with it for pure authentic vibe. Irie.

Re: Reggae

Fischman — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 20:08:31 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 11/01/2016 00:08

Rock music largely has a heavy beat on the 2 and the 4 of each measure.

Reggae generally relies on repetitive syncopation.

In reality, the only difference between the two is the tempo of the music and the level of emphasis relative to everything else that's going on. This "off" beats here at this pace, and at a very mild level relative to the rest of the music, sound more like a 2 and a 4 than a syncopation.

Now at the 6 minute mark, things do change quite a bit. And for me, that beat becomes maddening over the long run (although the melody/improvisation being laid over the top of it is pleasant enough at times). At the 10:50 mark, that overwhelming off beat becomes even more maddening, especially after the previous song. Again, as a point of emphasis to enhance, it works great, but to do the same thing throughout an entire 4 minute song is, to me, mind numbingly repetitive, even if the soloing is great (which it isn't IMO, especially on the latter songs). Those last two songs are perfect examples of why I can't listen to reggae.

But even in the first song, which I like, although it sounds different, it's still the same beat, which goes to the core of my criticism of the genre. That's always the beat. Again, the genre is structurally narrow. The drum fills, interesting though they may be, are the frosting, but the core cake remains the same. In the end your examples all just reinforced my impression of reggae, especially after you pointed out that even the first song does indeed have the syncopated beat.

So lets be happy I like the first song and call it a day. As you say, there is something in every genre that can prick my ears. While I generally can't stand Rap or Country, there are examples I really like. Thanks to you, I now have at least one example of reggae I can dig as well.

Re: Reggae

Jimmy Dread — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 19:24:21 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 10/31/2016 23:24

Fischman wrote:

Thanks for the post there, a very good listen!

Glad you liked it.

Fischman wrote:

But that's more than just reggae. As I'm sure you know, reggae has been known to incorporate other forms, just as other forms often incorporate reggae. A lot of music is some form of hybrid. That seemed more like reggae dudes playing jazz-blues than anything. The one universally acknowledged element of reggae found in any definition of the genre is "strongly accentuated offbeat." That example really doesn't rely on that. In any case, if you want to call that reggae because it's being played by Rastafarians, so be it. I'll accept it and acknowledge that I dig it.

Interesting, because that is undoubtedly, unshakably roots reggae. Not dub (it wasn't a riddim tweaked and twisted by an engineer or producer - being a JA instrumental doesn't automatically qualify something as such), not dancehall, not any other JA 'reggae' sub-genre, not jazz (although Pablo plays a mean harmonica - Jamaicans can be techincally proficient, you know). And as something of a genre Nazi when it comes to Jamaican music I can say that without any hesitation. I mean, the second track (Java) has all the hallmarks you cite - the 'strongly-accentuated offbeat' (which can be heard throughout and the rhythm guitarist can be seen playing from the 6:20 mark onwards), that snare fill at 5:19, the time sig, the prominence of the bass - the lot. And the third track even more so.

The difference between the 'reggae' you've likely heard and subsequently dismissed (which is why I asked you to cite examples of the aforementioned stuff that bored you senseless) is that Pablo's free-form melodica here takes centre-stage, like Coltrane's sax or Davis' trumpet. It's a far cry from the over-produced saccharine bollocks of a lot of 'reggae' that was watered down for rock audiences, c.f. Island Records getting white session musicians in to make Marley's records more accessible to a foreign audience. For the record, I'm no Marley fan either - I find his 'reggae' far too bland musically in spite some of the lyrical sentimentality. Sometimes you've got to dig a bit deeper, go into the darker corners and polish off the dust to find the prize.

The fact Pablo's a Rasta (can't speak for the Soul Syndicate) is a critical point. His faith counts for nothing and everything. Nothing because from a technical point of view it would still be reggae if it were played by Eskimos dressed in grass skirts. Everything because the self-determination fed by a sense of national and spiritual pride that Rastas got from an independent Jamaica and Groundation Day (when Haile Selassie visited in '66 - won't go into Rastafari theology, sure you know all about it) directly fuels and governs the music. It's the whole desire to have their own music which drives the entire Jamaican music industry, not just Rastafari. Sure, they may borrow here-and-there (ska took from New Orleans R&B which travelling Jamaicans bought back to the island with them after working in the States - when the new sounds dried up, they took to creating their own music), but for a country of some 3 million people the rich tapestry of Jamaican music (as well as its evolution from ska to reggae to dancehall to ragga) is nothing short of remarkable, considering some in the UK/US still value hoary old rock music as the zenith of all popular music forms.

Without knowing you, and without wanting to offend, for someone who is supposedly so well-versed in such a myriad of different musical forms I was pretty surprised (and hacked off) when you described 'reggae' as one-dimensional and mind-numbing. Because, as the video in the previous post (and a whole load of others I could put up) prove, it bloody well is anything but that. As with all genres, there's wheat and chaff. Part of being on BEA is the joy of finding things that you never would have entertained listening to before you joined (don't tell anyone, but I listened to a Sun Ra album earlier and actually enjoyed it. Jimmy Hates Jazz, by the way 😁 ). The one sure-fire way to alienate yourself from the forum regulars is to come out with a misguided bombast and dismiss genres out-of-hand unless you can explain with about 100 examples (make a chart) as to why it is so shit. Take it from me - not only is there something in virtually every genre that will make your ears prick up and listen with love from time to time, but someone on BEA will unquestionably know more about music than you do and won't be afraid to let you know about it. Well, at least that was true before JMan left.

One love.

Re: Reggae

Hayden — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 18:37:31 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 10/31/2016 22:37

On a slightly more pleasant note, Jimmy, have you ever heard this album?

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Wild Suspense by Wailing Souls

(There's an alternative album cover that I prefer, but this is the one on the site so whatever)

I never see anyone talk about it, but I can't help feeling this is really one of the best reggae albums I've ever heard. It's off of Island Records, so it's slightly more accessible reggae. It reminds me a lot of The Congos and Mighty Diamonds. If you want to give it a shot, I should be able to send a link over your way.

The opening track is a cover of (or slight ripoff? I forget) of Fisherman, but it's pretty solid.

Re: Reggae

Fischman — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 18:30:10 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 10/31/2016 22:30

Thanks for the post there, a very good listen!

But that's more than just reggae. As I'm sure you know, reggae has been known to incorporate other forms, just as other forms often incorporate reggae. A lot of music is some form of hybrid. That seemed more like reggae dudes playing jazz-blues than anything. The one universally acknowledged element of reggae found in any definition of the genre is "strongly accentuated offbeat." That example really doesn't rely on that. In any case, if you want to call that reggae because it's being played by Rastafarians, so be it. I'll accept it and acknowledge that I dig it.

Re: Reggae

Jimmy Dread — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 18:05:02 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 10/31/2016 22:05

I'm just going to stick this here. Maybe it'll change a few minds (or at least give us already converted something to skank to...)

Link

Re: Reggae

Fischman — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:52:10 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:52

craola wrote:

heck, there are entire genres of jazz that have been inspired by and use reggae rhythms.

Yep. And those who use the technique judiciously, as a single element of a well rounded musical vision, are worth listening to. Those which rely on it to too great a degree, are not (for me, at least-- I make no claims about others).

Re: Reggae

craola — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:43:50 GMT

Author: craola

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:43

reggae restrictive?
rap restrictive??

i mean, rap is a technique. and when you think of reggae, you're usually thinking of that offbeat rhythm, which is really just a technique.

i could rap over your classical ass. we'll throw some bartok on, and have kendrick rhyme over it. restrictive as a box of saran wrap, eh. we'll call it symphonic rap or chamber rap.

and i can reggae out to your jazz... heck, there are entire genres of jazz that have been inspired by and use reggae rhythms.

Re: Reggae

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:40:17 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:40

Jimmy Dread wrote:

I would do Louis me old mucker, however I'm so mashed 'cos that's the only way to appreciate 'reggae' I'm lead to believe. Now excuse me whilst I get my bong out and stick Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da on.

Oops, should have figured that one out. I wouldn't want it any other way.

No worries, I might start working my way through your reggae chart instead and see what I reckon.

and light a massive dooby

Re: Reggae

Jimmy Dread — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:34:48 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:34

Puncture Repair wrote:

I actually have a very similar opinion. I'll admit I'm completely ignorant about the genre, if you've got the energy I'd love to hear your rant, regardless.

I would do Louis me old mucker, however I'm so mashed 'cos that's the only way to appreciate 'reggae' I'm lead to believe. Now excuse me whilst I get my bong out and stick Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da on.

Re: Reggae

Hayden — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:30:39 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:30

Fischman wrote:

Definitely no.
I can't listen to reggae for much the same reason I can't listen to rap or country. The genres are mind-numbingly simple and repetitive.

The same beat over and over and over and over. Maybe it helps to be totally stoned and get that whole time distortion thing going.

Fischman wrote:

Oh fuck off.

Re: Reggae

Jimmy Dread — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:29:01 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:29

dividesbyzero wrote:

I've listened to like, 4 whole Bob Marley songs. My argument's pretty much bulletproof m8

And some UB40 no doubt. Mind you, still better than listening to masturbatory guitar solos...

Re: Reggae

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:28:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:28

Jimmy Dread wrote:

Oh please do elaborate, citing examples. I could do with a good rant...

I actually have a very similar opinion. I'll admit I'm completely ignorant about the genre, if you've got the energy I'd love to hear your rant, regardless.

Re: Reggae

Anonymous — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:27:34 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:27

Jimmy Dread wrote:

Oh please do elaborate, citing examples. I could do with a good rant...

I've listened to like, 4 whole Bob Marley songs. My argument's pretty much bulletproof m8

Re: Reggae

Jimmy Dread — Mon, 31 Oct 2016 17:19:12 GMT

Author: Jimmy Dread

Posted: 10/31/2016 21:19

Fischman wrote:

I can't listen to reggae (...) mind-numbingly simple and repetitive (...) the same beat over and over and over and over. Maybe it helps to be totally stoned and get that whole time distortion thing going (...) Reggae, by its very definition, is exceedingly narrow in terms of its musical structure. There's just not a whole lot you can do with it, compared to less restrictive forms.

Oh please do elaborate, citing examples. I could do with a good rant...

Re: Reggae

Fischman — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 23:37:39 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 10/30/2016 03:37

sethmadsen wrote:

Fischman wrote:

Definitely no.
I can't listen to reggae for much the same reason I can't listen to rap or country. The genres are mind-numbingly simple and repetitive.

Fischman... Sorry by I'm going to have to call you out... mostly because I said this when I was 14 years old, and so did my whole society that wasn't what I considered trailer trash or something. There is a fantastic world out there worth discovering past your prejudice. Mind-numbing simple repetitiveness can be found in every genre/era.

I then grew up and actually listened to all three of those genres and saw wisdom, wit, fantastic story telling, and to be honest... better songwriting. Rap by far has some of the best cutting and real songwriting out there.

I had a life changing experience and somehow decided music isn't so narrow as you describe, and I also once thought. My sister calls Reggae caveman music, and she is so wrong.

Me personally - I think somehow Reggae connects to the most human part of music, and that's what I like about it.

You make a big assumption by attributing my assessment to "past prejudice." First of all, I have far broader musical tastes than 99.9% of the population. You will find both depth and breadth in my collection across classical in all its forms and periods, jazz in all its forms and periods, rock in all its forms and periods, blues, new age, funk, world music from all over the globe and many different cultures, metal, etc.

The thing is, the word "prejudice" is just the joining of the prefix "pre" and the word "judge." It literally means to pre judge. I haven't prejudged anything. I have heard tons of reggae and every bit I hear reinforces what I came to know over time rather than prejudging it.

Sure, you can find horribly simple and repetitive music in most genres, but most genres are diverse enough to be able to be more, to include more, to provide more variety and breadth. Reggae, by its very definition, is exceedingly narrow in terms of its musical structure. There's just not a whole lot you can do with it, compared to less restrictive forms.

I"m not sure what you think is "the most human part of music," but it's good that you have found something to connect to there. It certainly doesn't connect to my "humanity." I don't think there's anything universal in anything that could be called a "human part of music." Otherwise, we'd all be listening to and loving the same thing.

Re: Reggae

RoundTheBend — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 23:21:08 GMT

Author: RoundTheBend

Posted: 10/30/2016 03:21

Fischman wrote:

Definitely no.
I can't listen to reggae for much the same reason I can't listen to rap or country. The genres are mind-numbingly simple and repetitive.

Re: Reggae

Fischman — Sat, 29 Oct 2016 22:47:36 GMT

Author: Fischman

Posted: 10/30/2016 02:47

Definitely no.
I can't listen to reggae for much the same reason I can't listen to rap or country. The genres are mind-numbingly simple and repetitive.

The same beat over and over and over and over. Maybe it helps to be totally stoned and get that whole time distortion thing going.

Some rock incorporates reggae beats into them, but more for occasional accent than a total foundation. In this limited capacity, it can enhance some songs, but to carry songs from end to end? Not a chance.

Re: Reggae

Rhett — Sat, 21 May 2016 15:26:24 GMT

Author: Rhett

Posted: 05/21/2016 19:26

I love Lee Scratch Perry. I'll say "no" on reggae and "yes" on dub.