Best Ever Albums

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

MrFrogger — Sat, 8 Jun 2013 18:37:16 GMT

Author: MrFrogger

Posted: 06/08/2013 22:37

Also if anyone wants to see Cellar's old chart, I've been using this

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

drakonium — Sat, 8 Jun 2013 18:32:25 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 06/08/2013 22:32

Anyway, I won't quote anyone, but thanks a lot for all the kind comments 🫢

I really wasn't expecting the scores to be so close, I was pleasantly surprised 😄 Obviously I feel no shame losing against CellarDoor, and I wish him good luck for his next battle 😉

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

drakonium — Sat, 8 Jun 2013 18:14:53 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 06/08/2013 22:14

This time, Marseille did beat Paris.

21-24

So close xD

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Anonymous — Sat, 8 Jun 2013 05:45:30 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/08/2013 09:45

swedenman wrote:

=D> �'� �'� �'� =D>

I mean, I would clap, but I already assumed that was the general understanding (last paragraph).

As far as "stressing the positive" goes. Somewhat agreement. I mean, certain people react better to negative criticism as it gives them something to work that they might not know exist that is indeed a problem with them.

Here is what I mean. People can say you're doing with something correct, that doesn't mean you aren't doing horrid with some other aspect of it. I say improve on your worst features, your good features can stay the same.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Anonymous — Sat, 8 Jun 2013 05:01:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/08/2013 09:01

Saoirse wrote:

I think the reason the results can get some people riled is that it can be hard (thought far from impossible) to not view the matchups as a referendum on your BEA persona, and things can get personal especially when there may be some negative statements unleashed against someone, especially if it's not expected. Really though, this is a contest taking a small sample size not only of BEA users being nominated but those who are actively participating.

Yes, there is going to be a bias against not-as-or-no-longer active users, as many of the recent users likely haven't interacted with them personally, just as their is likely a bias among others against newer users, especially for the forums' veterans who have cultivated a long-standing respect for other long-time users they have gotten to know very well, and still are getting to know some of the forums' newer participants.

Really, this is just a contest that seemed to be formed only for fun, and for the most part has seemed to be handed maturely, although a couple recent ones have exposed both flaws about the contest itself (which is prevelant in any tournament, not trying to put down this particular one) as well as different ideas about how nominated users should be treated here: simply focus on the pros of each BEAer, or do we also use this to vent our somewhat harsher criticism about a particular member? The latter question will have to be answered by each participant on their own.

My only advice is to just not take this too seriously as an objective judgement about a particular user's worth against another, stress the positive and don't get too riled up about whatever the final results may be. Otherwise this tournament will only create greater divides among forum members, rather than strengthening the great little community we have here.

�'� �'� �'� �'� �'�

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Anonymous — Sat, 8 Jun 2013 04:35:48 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/08/2013 08:35

I think the reason the results can get some people riled is that it can be hard (thought far from impossible) to not view the matchups as a referendum on your BEA persona, and things can get personal especially when there may be some negative statements unleashed against someone, especially if it's not expected. Really though, this is a contest taking a small sample size not only of BEA users being nominated but those who are actively participating.

Yes, there is going to be a bias against not-as-or-no-longer active users, as many of the recent users likely haven't interacted with them personally, just as their is likely a bias among others against newer users, especially for the forums' veterans who have cultivated a long-standing respect for other long-time users they have gotten to know very well, and still are getting to know some of the forums' newer participants.

Really, this is just a contest that seemed to be formed only for fun, and for the most part has seemed to be handed maturely, although a couple recent ones have exposed both flaws about the contest itself (which is prevelant in any tournament, not trying to put down this particular one) as well as different ideas about how nominated users should be treated here: simply focus on the pros of each BEAer, or do we also use this to vent our somewhat harsher criticism about a particular member? The latter question will have to be answered by each participant on their own.

My only advice is to just not take this too seriously as an objective judgement about a particular user's worth against another, stress the positive and don't get too riled up about whatever the final results may be. Otherwise this tournament will only create greater divides among forum members, rather than strengthening the great little community we have here.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 20:13:58 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/08/2013 00:13

One word: Farfetch'd.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

MrFrogger — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 20:09:10 GMT

Author: MrFrogger

Posted: 06/08/2013 00:09

Cellardoor's old chart is probably my favorite chart ever(His new one is also amazing). So I gotta vote Cellar, sorry Drakonium, your a super cool guy though, and it made this a tougher decision than I expected.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

CellarDoor — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 17:41:40 GMT

Author: CellarDoor

Posted: 06/07/2013 21:41

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

So this is what happens when you spend a little more time IRL 😉

Very kind post from loveless, but I hardly consider myself a pioneer on BEA.
I had a definite strong post-punk inclination when I joined and a taste for indie pop, but I'm immensely grateful to The Gollux, JJ, Elston etc... for sharing some of my current favorites. The Gollux introduced me to the likes of Galaxie 500 and Slowdive, I discovered Slint and CAN on here. So there goes the Cellar myth.
My listening log has obviously expanded over 4 years thanks to this site, and my taste has grown more melancholic. And I love making charts (I'm very proud of the first color-themed chart I once made).

I'll admit to not adapting to the new blood arriving here, with less to share in the different forum topics ; and my studies coming to an end I have a lot of work on my hands.

Drakonium is one of the nicer users to emerge over the last few months and wish him a lovely stay on BEA.

EDIT : I'll abstain

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Hayden — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 16:52:37 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 06/07/2013 20:52

Jasonconfused wrote:

If Magenta were still here she would be flipping a bitch over how this matchup is turning out.

I'll gladly take her place.

Cellardoor gets my vote.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Jasonconfused — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:10:27 GMT

Author: Jasonconfused

Posted: 06/07/2013 19:10

If Magenta were still here she would be flipping a bitch over how this matchup is turning out.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 15:09:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/07/2013 19:09

drakonium is one of my favorite new users. Ridiculously polite, always full of intelligent things to say, and I've got a number of great recs from him already. He also put together this behemoth of a tournament, and that takes patience AND dedication. I have nothing against CellarDoor, but the truth is that I just don't know him all that well. Easy choice for me.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Norman Bates — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 14:29:16 GMT

Author: Norman Bates

Posted: 06/07/2013 18:29

Voted Cellar.

Drako, no hurt feelings I hope. I guess it all comes down to the fact that, me and Cellar having conversed a lot more on BEA before you were here, I just feel closer to him.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

junodog4 — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 14:07:14 GMT

Author: junodog4

Posted: 06/07/2013 18:07

"I'm twee as fuck" - CellarDoor.

Well that gets my vote...

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

drakonium — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 13:58:06 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 06/07/2013 17:58

omg drakonium is so overrated on this site lol

On a more serious note, Brandon said it well (like always, that's why he's going to win this tournament) : considering the proportions of new users, this is more a "best user at the moment" tournament than a "best ever user" one. That's also why I voted for Jason over Hayden, MrFrogger over Bork, ptaylor over Squishy or useless over Mr. Shankly. Should my vote be ignored just because I didn't have the chance to know "old" users more?

In a century, maybe people won't be listening to the Beatles anymore. Does that mean that they won't have the acclaim they deserve or that they will be "worse" than the new artists that will have appeared? Obviously not. That's just a normal thing. Users come and go, that's the circle of life (please JMan don't quote this to put a fucking Lion King video, thanks). Let's take a user like meccalecca for example. He's typically a guy I can see becoming mythic here : huge musical knowledge, interesting posts, etc. Let's suppose he leaves in a year. New users that will be there at the moment won't consider him particularly incredible or anything. They'll prefer new guys who post a lot in the forums over that BEA dinosaur who doesn't come anymore.

So what? It's how things work, isn't it? No, I'm not a "worthier" user than CellarDoor by any means, and I see how he's one of the users that have left a definitive trace on this site, but I've been much more active than him over the last couple of months. If ptaylor, or Jason, or mecca, or I-don't-know-who had been against CellarDoor in this tourney, I would have voted for them.

Oh, and also, it's a game. It's just for fun. So let's have fun 😁 (that said, the discussion between loveless and Happy was interesting and civilized, so I'm glad it happened)

Edit : last thing : the battle is not finished yet. nezzle had been dominating Nech during the whole thing, but he still lost at the last minute. Suspense...

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Jasonconfused — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 13:19:59 GMT

Author: Jasonconfused

Posted: 06/07/2013 17:19

JMan wrote:

I hardly know Cellardoor, so Drakonium.

Pretty much this. CellarDoor is a cool guy, I'm sure, but I guess he was before my time. Drakonium is a genuinely awesome dude.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Anonymous — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 13:13:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 06/07/2013 17:13

19loveless91 wrote:

It's hard to compare voting for users to voting for albums. Basically what this here is, is people voting for "albums" they know, because they don't have the option of listening to the one they don't know (unless you wanna wade through countless of threads and album/chart comments).

I guess that's a fair point to say. I mean, that's the root of it all.

People are familiar with certain albums as they are with people. You're far more familiar with Cellar than many here (or I assume that). Others are far more familiar with Drakonium here. People who are familiar with each have bias for who they are familiar with. I mean, if you've listened to an album for a good amount of your life, you'd probably vote that over an album that you have listened to maybe once or twice. now, there are albums with which people are impressed by. More impressed than those they have bias for. That's fine, but, in this case, it's really up to the captain to promote the people. If people aren't familiar with Cellar, make them familiar with what you believe to be his best. If they get impressed, then that's good, but if they're not impressed (such as myself, I'd say I'm more familiar with Drakonium), then they'll still vote for their preferred user. That being said, they could be impressed and still vote for Cellar's opponent in this case.

That being said, it's still subjective. I mean, let's be fair, this doesn't have to be compared to albums or anything remotely like albums (though one might see similarities between albums and people in certain senses) to be subjective. That being said, I still have little idea what's the difference between impact and influence, or at least where you're coming from with that statement. Perhaps that might assist in my understanding. I dunno.

Also, because I just saw your recent post, some of this might change, this post is probably gonna become incoherent or already is.

19loveless91 wrote:

Nickelback made a big impact on music world - they were massively popular, sold out arenas, were playing on the radio all the time. They were also derivative as fuck, and not really influential. I'm not saying that a band making an impact isn't also influential, but that is as a consequence of it, they're not interchangeable terms.

When I say Cellar made a big impact on this site => he had tons of great recommendations for a lot of people, some of his charts still do that part, and for several years he contributed to great discussions on the forums.
I don't really see how this would translate to "influental" in music. Obviously it's a personal opinion, but it's an opinion that was shared (and is shared) by many people that were on this site at his time. That's why I'm sad to see these results, not because there's anything wrong with drakonium, but because when I'm thinking of users that made me want to keep returning to BEA, month after month, year after year (yeah, it's been that long), Cellar is one of the first I think about

Before I start, thanks for the explanation and example. You're right, impact and "influence" aren't exactly the same thing. This might make my post seem a bit oddly worded at places, but I don't have much time to fix it and tidy it up.

Ahh. I see what you mean. Well, then the "familiarity" applies here as well. perhaps you're familiar with Drakonium as much as you are with Cellar. Now, let's take this a bit further. You claim that CellarDoor is one of the users you think of when you think of users that made you want to return. Fair enough. That goes along with the whole impact thing. Cellardoor impacted you more than Drakonium. That's cool, but considering that, what makes you think CellarDoor will impact people the same way as you or others assuming Drakonium already made his impact on them?

Once again, this goes up with my whole "personal bias" thing. Certain users, you (and others) have a bias for. Whatever the reason, that's that. See here though, I call it personal because the impact only applies to those who were there. It's more personal than anything considering it depends on a case by case type thing (if you understand what i mean, it depends on the person). Anyways, it all applies to this being subjective. More so because you think of people and voting for people the same way most do. Which one do you prefer or has made a bigger impact on you personally? That's what many people consider (though not quite as upfront about it) just like you do.

More people here (currently voting) have had a bigger impact by Drakonium. Once that exists, it's difficult to change your opinion of it to prefer someone elses "impact". Just like an album's sound. Once you're used to an album's sound and already like it, then it'd be difficult for other albums' sounds you're not used to in order to beat it. This might not make much sense, but I haven't had a lot of time to refine this response, but that's my thoughts.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

19loveless91 — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 13:02:52 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 06/07/2013 17:02

Eggman/Walrus/Taxman wrote:

I agree. The sentence "If you want to talk in music terms, a band that makes an impact can still be completely derivative." confuses me because influence and innovation aren't the same thing either.

True, I fucked that up. I meant that a derivative band will usually not be influential.. See my previous post, I think I explain what I mean more clearly.

(I'm off to see MBV now, I'll be able to continue this after I recover from the gig)

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

19loveless91 — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:59:08 GMT

Author: 19loveless91

Posted: 06/07/2013 16:59

Happymeal wrote:

Explain to me what you believe to be impact to be.

If you believe we're talking about two different things, I would like to know what you think. My opinion is that impact and influence are interchangeable, I still have no idea how they aren't, and you saying they aren't doesn't help me come to another conclusion.

Re: [CLOSED] BEUT : drakonium VS CellarDoor

Facetious — Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:57:47 GMT

Author: Facetious

Posted: 06/07/2013 16:57

Happymeal wrote:

I agree. The sentence "If you want to talk in music terms, a band that makes an impact can still be completely derivative." confuses me because influence and innovation aren't the same thing either.