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Re: Gender Equality

alelsupreme — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:55:41 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 09/07/2013 18:55

Quote:

Nah, you obviously can't prevent rape, but there ARE things you can do to help - raising awareness and changing social attitudes towards the victim/victimizer relationship could in effect drastically reduce its occurrence.

Well I can't really argue that cos I don't know whether that'd work or not.

Quote:

I understand what you're saying, but no one's born a killer or rapist. They're a product of their culture.

Well, that is true. After all, there were a great number of rapes carried out by Soviet troops in Germany, and it'd be insane to suggest that they were all born rapists.

Re: Gender Equality

meccalecca — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:47:34 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/07/2013 18:47

alelsupreme wrote:

Wasn't there huge riots in India over that though?

Yes, there were riots, and fortunately the Indian government has made movements towards new laws.

but...stories like this remind us they're a long way away from a nation that treats women fairly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/0...75754.html

Quote:

Though I'm still not sure how you could prevent rape, seems a bit like trying to prevent murder.

I understand what you're saying, but no one's born a killer or rapist. They're a product of their culture. A lot of people do not comprehend the irreversible damage that sexual abuse can have on a victim. For example, studies have found that a large portion of child rape victims suffer from eating disorders for the bulk of their life after the abuse. Theories suggest that this is the victims attempt to control their body and deprive it of nutrition. anorexia usually effects menstruation, and therefore, there is ultimately an attempt to return to childlike innocence by controlling once's body. The greek myth of Persephone has been interpreted by many scholars as a reflection of rape and anorexia.

Re: Gender Equality

Jackwc — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:38:09 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 09/07/2013 18:38

alelsupreme wrote:

Yeah, that's messed up. Though I'm still not sure how you could prevent rape, seems a bit like trying to prevent murder.

Re: Gender Equality

alelsupreme — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 14:12:19 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 09/07/2013 18:12

meccalecca wrote:

just because we don't hear a lot of reports of it in other countries doesn't mean it's not a problem. recents events in India have shined a bright light on how far the world still has to come in regards to gender equality. Just imagine being raped in a foreign country and not only do the perpetrators get away with it, but you're a criminal for committing adultry

Wasn't there huge riots in India over that though?

Quote:

That doesn't matter; to this day "she was asking for it" is a very popular reply to a rape charge, the onus of preventing rape is put entirely on the victims, and to make matters worse, the way society treats rape victims seems to be to make them feel as if they themselves are the guilty ones.

Yeah, that's messed up. Though I'm still not sure how you could prevent rape, seems a bit like trying to prevent murder.

Re: Gender Equality

Jackwc — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 13:53:03 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 09/07/2013 17:53

alelsupreme wrote:

The attitude to rape in most countries seems pretty damn against it.

Re: Gender Equality

Jackwc — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 13:49:22 GMT

Author: Jackwc

Posted: 09/07/2013 17:49

Puncture Repair wrote:

personality-void women.

They weren't personality void, one of them had a sheep!

Re: Gender Equality

meccalecca — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 13:04:07 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/07/2013 17:04

alelsupreme wrote:

The attitude to rape in most countries seems pretty damn against it.

Re: Gender Equality

alelsupreme — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 12:48:11 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 09/07/2013 16:48

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

And yes, cultural attitudes towards gender have a pretty much direct impact on attitudes to rape.

The attitude to rape in most countries seems pretty damn against it.

Re: Gender Equality

meccalecca — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 08:20:31 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/07/2013 12:20

swedenman wrote:

Um, no. I agree with most everything else you've said, but you can't actually mean this.

I'm not saying that men should be hated. What I meant by this is that these are usually women who suffered really tragic events at the hands of men, so I can sympathize with them. The truth of the matter is that you almost never hear of women committing hate crimes towards men, despite how men have treated them.

Quote:

Sorry, only that first sentence was meant in response to you. And I'm not trying to say he's not misogynistic, I'm trying to say the lyrics in no way condone rape or anything close to it. However I will say being sexually frustrated and objectifying women are entirely separate things.

yeah, i don't think the lyrics condone rape either. There's not enugh substance to them to really complain. but a video of topless women mindlessly dancing around is certainly objectifcation

Re: Gender Equality

bongritsu — Sat, 7 Sep 2013 02:48:41 GMT

Author: bongritsu

Posted: 09/07/2013 06:48

sexually dimorphic race!

:0)

should this not be in politics/religion?

Re: Gender Equality

AlexZangari — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 23:19:40 GMT

Author: AlexZangari

Posted: 09/07/2013 03:19

meccalecca wrote:

I didn't say rape culture. but rather a culture of objectification of women. Have you seen that video? Sure the lyrics are about his sexual frustration, but why's he frustrated because she won't have sex with him. she is the object in this scenario. Are you really referring to a lyric like "Not many women can refuse this pimping" as not being misogynistic?

Plus isn't this the same guy who probably just cheated on his wife?

Re: Gender Equality

Anonymous — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 23:00:43 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/07/2013 03:00

meccalecca wrote:

most man haters have pretty good reasoning.

Um, no. I agree with most everything else you've said, but you can't actually mean this.

Re: Gender Equality

HigherThanTheSun — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 21:28:06 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 09/07/2013 01:28

meccalecca wrote:

The Blurred Lines song/video is some serious misogynistic crap. And anyone attempting to defend it as just being a harmless pop song is oblivious. The cultural problem of objectification of women is really everywhere in pop culture, and by being everywhere, it feeds the problem by convincing people that it's okay.

Well, yeah. People who are upset by Blurred Lines should also be offended by a whole load of other stuff in pop culture and particularly pop music besides. It's undoubtedly misogynistic but so is a whole load of other pop music, seems dumb to me to boycott this one song while endorsing others which are as bad. A lot of misogyny in pop offends me, not just this song, but mostly not enough to make me stop listening to a tune I like. Lyrics are ambiguous also, I don't see that it necessarily promotes rape culture.

As for the parody I think it's pretty dumb, some feminists don't help their cause by coming across as hating all men, that's not the way to make men sympathise with the cause. Obviously should say that I understand most feminists aren't the militant type who hate men and I have a lot of sympathy for gender equality, could even call myself a feminist.

And @alelsupreme, the treatment of women in our society relative to other countries is not relevant, treatment of women relative to men in society is what is important. That women are treated worse in Saudi Arabia does not make gender equality in say, the UK, any less important. And yes, cultural attitudes towards gender have a pretty much direct impact on attitudes to rape.

Re: Gender Equality

meccalecca — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 21:21:20 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/07/2013 01:21

AlexZangari wrote:

What's outrageous is you coming into a gender equality thread and defending sexism.

What's also outrageous is the implication that "Blurred Lines" has anything to do with rape at all. Thicke has stated that "Blurred Lines" refers to "the good-girl/bad-girl thing and what’s appropriate." The lyrics are clearly about a woman who is portrayed as a "good girl" who acts like a "bad girl."

"But you're a good girl
The way you grab me
Must wanna get nasty"

With this as the base, the song deals with the narrator's (I say "narrator" because Thicke and T.I.'s lyrics are both from the same perspective) sexual frustration caused by this woman - and even clearly states that he's waiting for her to consent to sex with him.

"So I'm just watching and waitin'
For you to salute the true big pimpin'
Not many women can refuse this pimping"

I really don't know how much clearer it can be that this song isn't promoting "rape culture."

Re: Gender Equality

AlexZangari — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 20:59:02 GMT

Author: AlexZangari

Posted: 09/07/2013 00:59

meccalecca wrote:

most man haters have pretty good reasoning. they've suffered a lifetime of abuse from male figures. what's the number like 1/3 of women are sexually abused? can you even comprehend that number? that's outrageous.

Re: Gender Equality

meccalecca — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 19:43:09 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 09/06/2013 23:43

alelsupreme wrote:

I didn't even bring up Miley Cyrus!

And like I said before, how can feminism prevent rape? If someone is fucked up to the point they would actually rape someone, what makes you think that they wouldn't do it regardless?

And yes, not all feminists complain about trivial shit. But I've seen a lot that will get up in arms about things that don't really matter. Like Blurred Lines for example!

I'm not against feminism for obvious reasons (how could you be against equality?) But modern feminism has quite a few problems. Although maybe my perception of it has been poisoned by all the awful extremists I've seen online (you know the sort, the ones that downright hate anything with a Y chromosome)

what you think of as trivial is certainly not trivial to others. segregation seems trivial relative to slavery, but god knows that it isn't trivial at all.

similarly a culture of objectification seems trivial to some Middle Eastern cultures where women are practically servants, but it's certainly not trivial.

most man haters have pretty good reasoning. they've suffered a lifetime of abuse from male figures. what's the number like 1/3 of women are sexually abused? can you even comprehend that number? that's outrageous.

I understand that it seems extreme to connect a pop song/video like Blurred Lines with rape, but it really does perpetuate the serious issue of objectification of women. I feel similarly about violent movies and games contributing to the overall violent culture. i still watch violent movies, and i don't think they're directly responsible for a tragedy like Aurora, but they contribute to a certain mentality.

Re: Gender Equality

alelsupreme — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 18:17:39 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 09/06/2013 22:17

swedenman wrote:

Um, am I missing something? Trivial shit? Just because rape and domestic abuse and gender inequality exists elsewhere in the world, maybe even in greater quantities, doesn't make it less of an issue here. Rape awareness is decidedly NOT a trivial issue, and I'm not entirely sure what you're even talking about when you say that. Are you implying that feminists are only concerned with Miley Cyrus twerking at the VMAs? It's true, that did piss a lot of feminists off (for non-trivial reasons, I might add, but that's a separate issue, I think), but it's a little disingenuous to imply that that's all they care about.

Re: Gender Equality

Anonymous — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 18:01:18 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2013 22:01

alelsupreme wrote:

Oh I'm all for feminism in places like India. God knows those places could use a whole bunch. That's what annoys me about the majority of western feminism, they focus on trivial shit while women in Saudi Arabia aren't getting the right to vote on their own until 2015.

Re: Gender Equality

alelsupreme — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 17:39:07 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 09/06/2013 21:39

meccalecca wrote:

And in the case of countries like India, making rape criminal would certainly help

Re: Gender Equality

Anonymous — Fri, 6 Sep 2013 17:24:56 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/06/2013 21:24

alelsupreme wrote:

Also, rape? how can feminism stop that? It's not as if feminism can fix the sort of fucked up mind of a rapist.