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Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

maxperenchio — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:30:45 GMT

Author: maxperenchio

Posted: 04/22/2010 21:30

dude telefunker quit making fun of crystal wands...you just don't get it

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

telefunker — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 05:31:19 GMT

Author: telefunker

Posted: 04/21/2010 09:31

i find studying psychology and the nature of reality to be running towards the truth, not away from it.. if anything it's more depressing

of course some people such as the new-age 'love and light' brigade probably assume a little too much wisdom for themselves and live in a delusional fantasy land of angels and crystal wands..

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

Elston — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 01:39:28 GMT

Author: Elston

Posted: 04/21/2010 05:39

This sounds like Plato's Theory of Forms.

I'm not sure how I feel about it though.

Part of me thinks it's an actual recoiling from the drudge of reality by creating a romanticized fantasy-world. But isn't that what art is for?

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

maxperenchio — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 20:42:39 GMT

Author: maxperenchio

Posted: 04/21/2010 00:42

Huxley was a wonderful writer- thats what makes "doors" a more enjoyable read than, say, an online "trip report". But in essence, I think its just about the same thing, but articulated by the guy who wrote Brave New World, instead of a guy who just got out of a Widespread Panic show.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 15:05:25 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/16/2010 19:05

albummaster wrote:

One of my favourite books which is kind of related to this is The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. It changed the way I think about the nature of reality. Interesting interview with the author here

That was a great interview! Found the last part interesting about the mind controlling reality. I will have to read this, sounds like something up my lane of interest! Thank you albummaster!

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

albummaster — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:52:24 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 04/16/2010 13:52

One of my favourite books which is kind of related to this is The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot. It changed the way I think about the nature of reality. Interesting interview with the author here

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:40:31 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/15/2010 18:40

badfaith wrote:

I still haven't read Prometheus, nut someone suggested it to me, and I'll get round to perusing it soon hopefully.

As far as the doors of Perception are concerned, there are a couple of analogeous (spell that right? hmmm) conditions of being that equate to the state described there. Namely AUTISM, where, depending on the acuteness of the sufferers condition, such filtration of reality does not exist, or the lack of narrowing (mind focus) of the perceptive range effectively paralyze the mind, and overwhelm it with reality information, and the condition of a newborn baby, which has not yet learned to distinguish parts of reality, and assign them labels, values, qualities and juxtaposition in relation to each other, except that which has been passe as a predisposition or function of the emerging mind through heredity or genetics.
The peak of my first LSD trip was like mentally stepping out into a blizzard of reality as I recall, with so much info and awareness battering my poor brain that I am left with only a vague impression of the experience, unable to retain a distinct and complete memory of what my mind was not designed (in a general sense) to bear witness to in so complete a manner.

Like you, it did prompt me read more in diverse fields, or 'pick at that scab' as it were.
This first led me to Jung and psychology of his description, which I found placed a suitable 'frame' around the other texts I read or context in which to see hallucinagenic experience, spirituality, religion etc etc.
The context of the human mind, the prism through which all this other light shines.
But I have to say (not sure if I have before, but I'll say again at the risk of being boring!) that Being and Nothingness by Jean Paul Sartre was a real eye opener (and brain melter).
From there, take another look at the bible, the Koran, I ching (and other Taoist texts), Buddhist and other religious documentations and everything begins to fit together in a new way.
It's not that these things are incompatable, just viewed rom a different angle of reality.

...or to paraphrase Shakespeare in Julius Caesar:

"the problem is not in our stars, but in ourselves"

I'll get back in my box now and shut up.

Hm, that's very interesting. I've always wondered about the perceptions of the mentally ill, and especially autism. I will have to read Being and Nothingness, thanks for the suggestion!

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

badfaith — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:38:40 GMT

Author: badfaith

Posted: 04/15/2010 16:38

I still haven't read Prometheus, nut someone suggested it to me, and I'll get round to perusing it soon hopefully.

As far as the doors of Perception are concerned, there are a couple of analogeous (spell that right? hmmm) conditions of being that equate to the state described there. Namely AUTISM, where, depending on the acuteness of the sufferers condition, such filtration of reality does not exist, or the lack of narrowing (mind focus) of the perceptive range effectively paralyze the mind, and overwhelm it with reality information, and the condition of a newborn baby, which has not yet learned to distinguish parts of reality, and assign them labels, values, qualities and juxtaposition in relation to each other, except that which has been passe as a predisposition or function of the emerging mind through heredity or genetics.
The peak of my first LSD trip was like mentally stepping out into a blizzard of reality as I recall, with so much info and awareness battering my poor brain that I am left with only a vague impression of the experience, unable to retain a distinct and complete memory of what my mind was not designed (in a general sense) to bear witness to in so complete a manner.

Like you, it did prompt me read more in diverse fields, or 'pick at that scab' as it were.
This first led me to Jung and psychology of his description, which I found placed a suitable 'frame' around the other texts I read or context in which to see hallucinagenic experience, spirituality, religion etc etc.
The context of the human mind, the prism through which all this other light shines.
But I have to say (not sure if I have before, but I'll say again at the risk of being boring!) that Being and Nothingness by Jean Paul Sartre was a real eye opener (and brain melter).
From there, take another look at the bible, the Koran, I ching (and other Taoist texts), Buddhist and other religious documentations and everything begins to fit together in a new way.
It's not that these things are incompatable, just viewed rom a different angle of reality.

...or to paraphrase Shakespeare in Julius Caesar:

"the problem is not in our stars, but in ourselves"

I'll get back in my box now and shut up.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:55:57 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/14/2010 22:55

telefunker wrote:

yeah, i haven't read this book but it's alright lit the match for me.. i'll have to check it out

i do read an awful lot about psychology, neurology, mysticism etc in some kind of long-shot attempt at discovering some kind of objective truth

it is true that the brain filters out virtually everything from your experience, obviously if every incoming signal were conveyed to your awareness, you'd be overwhelmed and incapable of doing anything

the filters can even extend to your belief system, i.e if an incoming signal is incongruent with your internal 'model of reality' it may be filtered out at hence invisible to you. we see this with hypnotists who can become literally invisible to their subjects. there's a great derren brown video of this on youtube somewhere!

i would recommend robert anton wilson's 'prometheus rising' as one of the most interesting and enlightening reads in this field. it basically takes all of the classic models of the mind (freud, jung etc) and shows their components or levels in a very simple, easy to understand model, which is in fact timothy leary's 8 circuit model of the brain.

one really whacked out book i'm re-reading at the moment is 'in search of the miraculous' which is about gurdjieff. again, his model of the mind is structurally very similar to that of western psychologists, up unto a point that is. his theories extend to this 'law of octaves' that permeates the entire universe and results in all life on earth being mere 'food for the moon' which is a living being and we can only escape this pitiful fate by transcending our current basic mind and attaining consciousness (he argues we are all otherwise completely unconscious machines).

personally, i believe, like robert anton wilson and leary, that all of these 'peak states', 'enlightenments', 'kundalini awakenings' etc are the higher brain circuits being activated where they were previously dormant. it appears certain drugs stimulate the relevant neurotransmitters, but the mere act of self-observation seems to be what the traditional methods all boil down to.

watch yourself now if you're still reading this, be aware that your brain is right this second constructing an image in your mind of what is before your eyes. notice how it feels, what thoughts come up etc and remember to put yourself in the picture.

repeated doses of that should apparently work, but hey, i'm still a work in progress..

Wow, thanks for the suggestions! That's exactly what I was looking for! Prometheus Rising will have to be the next book I pick up.

I think you'd love this essay though. It also mentions hypnosis as a form of reaching a higher reality so you'll have some common ground with it. Most copies of the book I've seen also includes his essay "Heaven and Hell," in which he discusses the relationships of art, color, natural architect, and higher reality--basically an analysis of reality and the higher reality. Mostly the good (Heaven), but also skims the surface of the bad (schizophrenia/Hell.) I just finished it and it was alright. You might find it interesting!

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 18:39:14 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/14/2010 22:39

Bork wrote:

mikeyskywalker wrote:

Plus, there really isn't any source, that I've come across, that discredits this idea.

There isn't any source that discredits Bertrand Russell's "theory" of the microscopic tea-pot orbiting earth either, but that is poor proof and most, including Bertrand Russell, accept it as preposterous. With all the attempts at reaching a higher reality it must be considered more suspicious that there is no source crediting it...much like another illusion that has kept reality from the people of the world since the beginning of mankind.

I'm not using that as proof, just as a fact that it's still credible.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

telefunker — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:36:46 GMT

Author: telefunker

Posted: 04/14/2010 21:36

yeah, i haven't read this book but it's alright lit the match for me.. i'll have to check it out

i do read an awful lot about psychology, neurology, mysticism etc in some kind of long-shot attempt at discovering some kind of objective truth

it is true that the brain filters out virtually everything from your experience, obviously if every incoming signal were conveyed to your awareness, you'd be overwhelmed and incapable of doing anything

the filters can even extend to your belief system, i.e if an incoming signal is incongruent with your internal 'model of reality' it may be filtered out at hence invisible to you. we see this with hypnotists who can become literally invisible to their subjects. there's a great derren brown video of this on youtube somewhere!

i would recommend robert anton wilson's 'prometheus rising' as one of the most interesting and enlightening reads in this field. it basically takes all of the classic models of the mind (freud, jung etc) and shows their components or levels in a very simple, easy to understand model, which is in fact timothy leary's 8 circuit model of the brain.

one really whacked out book i'm re-reading at the moment is 'in search of the miraculous' which is about gurdjieff. again, his model of the mind is structurally very similar to that of western psychologists, up unto a point that is. his theories extend to this 'law of octaves' that permeates the entire universe and results in all life on earth being mere 'food for the moon' which is a living being and we can only escape this pitiful fate by transcending our current basic mind and attaining consciousness (he argues we are all otherwise completely unconscious machines).

personally, i believe, like robert anton wilson and leary, that all of these 'peak states', 'enlightenments', 'kundalini awakenings' etc are the higher brain circuits being activated where they were previously dormant. it appears certain drugs stimulate the relevant neurotransmitters, but the mere act of self-observation seems to be what the traditional methods all boil down to.

watch yourself now if you're still reading this, be aware that your brain is right this second constructing an image in your mind of what is before your eyes. notice how it feels, what thoughts come up etc and remember to put yourself in the picture.

repeated doses of that should apparently work, but hey, i'm still a work in progress..

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

Bork — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:00:07 GMT

Author: Bork

Posted: 04/14/2010 20:00

mikeyskywalker wrote:

Plus, there really isn't any source, that I've come across, that discredits this idea.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:50:44 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/14/2010 19:50

Bork wrote:

Some try to call the effects of drug use, deprivation of sleep, starvation and dehydration "heightened reality". Most would refer to it as hallucinations though.

Yes, but the point is that instead of it being something that the mind just conjures, what if it is a heightened sense? I understand that most just go straight to that assumption, but you have to give it some "what if" thought.

For instance, I was thinking about animal's perception of the universe, their brains seem more prone to stressing survival, what if they see/hear/feel less than us? (This is just my cheap philosophy though...)

Plus, there really isn't any source, that I've come across, that discredits this idea.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

Bork — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:24:05 GMT

Author: Bork

Posted: 04/14/2010 19:24

Some try to call the effects of drug use, deprivation of sleep, starvation and dehydration "heightened reality". Most would refer to it as hallucinations though.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:02:01 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/14/2010 19:02

an_outlaw wrote:

I have not read this book. Does that quote some up what he's trying to say or is there more to it?

I suppose the part I'm talking about is his theory of "Mind at Large" where your mind filters information based on what it thinks you need to survive. So, when the "filter" is removed you will be able to experience an infinite universe. Among the components needed to survive are the linguistic system, the need to be logical, and basic needs to live (food, sleep, etc.) It's interesting, because in ancient cultures, meditation and fasting was used to reach this heightened sense of reality which involved escaping from these survival components. Huxley gets to this point though through the usage of mescaline.

Re: The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:37:18 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 04/14/2010 18:37

I have not read this book. Does that quote some up what he's trying to say or is there more to it?

The Doors of Perception/Book suggestions

mikeyskywalker — Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:59:15 GMT

Author: mikeyskywalker

Posted: 04/14/2010 17:59

So what do you all think of Aldous Huxley's theory? At first I read the book, because I've always loved The Doors. Now I can't get the theory out of my head! Wouldn't it be interesting if it were true, and we were just viewing a fraction of what really was? Of course, his theory is not backed up by any fact whatsoever, but it's fun to still take it into consideration. I thought the essay rambled on a bit though, but now I have a greater understanding of William Blake's quote at least (in the context of the 50s/60s):

"If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite. For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thru' narrow chinks of his cavern."

On the other hand, does anyone have any book suggestions (of any genre?)