Best Ever Albums

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:53:34 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/18/2013 23:53

albummaster wrote:

Thanks for the post. I'm just trying to cover all the bases before implementing anything.

I completely understand. As an active user, I hope you take your time and don't do anything until you feel comfortable about it. I am glad you have been doing just that.

albummaster wrote:

Tying this feature to charts means people will have to work with multiple lists of recommendations, which could be difficult for people to manage & keep on top of, so I think there also needs to be a single view containing all of a person's recs somewhere else (but the recs specific to the chart could remain listed on the chart, so we could have both).

Makes sense to me. I think I find this agreeable.

albummaster wrote:

There also needs to be some list management features (e.g. some way of removing items from the list once they've been checked out)

IMO, it would be useful to keep them there, even after being added as "listened". It's a way to keep track of who recommended what to you. There were some posts sort of recently in random chat about which albums on your chart were thanks to specific BEA users (link: http://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/vi...start=3450, starts at the end of that page). Some people had trouble remembering, so the dropbox feature could be a decent way to keep track of those things.

However, having the option to remove the rec from the dropbox could be useful, especially if that rec was spam.

albummaster wrote:

I don't know how we could ever prove the item was listened by the receiver

Is it necessary to prove this?

albummaster wrote:

Maybe the receiver of a rec could just have a thumb up to say 'thanks' or a thumb down to say 'no thanks!'.

I'm still unsure about the feeling of being directly judged when sending out a rec, though that's just my personal view. I don't know how others would feel, I could be in the minority. STILL, users always have the option to rate the album normally (/100 on album page).

albummaster wrote:

I've only ever tried RYM a handful of times, so I don't know how the system works on that site.

On profile pages, in the section that says "music", on the bottom, it simply states: Recommendations: Received: x | Given: x | Automatic | User Stats | Visualize .

Each word is a link, for example clicking on "received" shows you all the album recs received. A simplistic system, "automatic" may show some statistics (like genre), but I think that's as far as it goes. I've never used this rec system myself.

albummaster wrote:

I'm a little unsure about, if someone is leaving recs on a particular chart, should their recs just be visible to the chart creator, or should they be visible to other people as well?

I think it should automatically be visible to all, but optional to have the full list/box private.

albummaster wrote:

Maybe people can choose when they leave the rec, whether it is public or private to the creator (could encourage spam), or perhaps the recipient can decide if they should be visible e.g. by only listing the 'thumbs up' recs. A block list would also be useful to stop recs from unwanted people (the person being blocked wouldn't know they are being blocked).

I think all of this is agreeable to me, except the thumbs system (what if the receiver feels uncertain but wants to acknowledge that they've now heard the album?).

albummaster wrote:

Finally, if people don't want to use this aspect of the site, it should be easy enough for people to turn the feature on and off from a user preference.

Agree.

One thing not mentioned here was about the mod point/reward system thing. I just want to be sure: do you still feel against it?

EDIT: I think I changed my mind about thumbs up/down. That could work, but maybe it should be optional and NOT required by the receiver to make the decision. Perhaps have it a separate indicator from adding an album as "listened".

Also, if adding mod points are still in the air (which I'd argue: if mod points can be given for rating albums and submitting a chart - essentially any basic contribution to the website - why not for giving recs?), then maybe mod points should only be given to the giver if the receiver added a "thumbs up" (indicating positive contribution).

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

albummaster — Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:40:40 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/18/2013 17:40

Romanelli wrote:

I didn't have time to read through everything, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

Could there be an option to deny the individual rec? That way if you do get something you already know you don't want, you can just kick it back. When the rec request is denied, it would send a notification back to the sender. So if someone did spam a terrible album out to a large number of people, and they got it all back to them in the way of denials, they might think twice about doing it again.

I hadn't thought about notifications, but it sounds a good idea to have them (but able to be switched on and off like the other emails etc). It should be possible to do something like the above, but we need to be careful of spam (even if it might be warranted).

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Romanelli — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 13:14:38 GMT

Author: Romanelli

Posted: 11/17/2013 18:14

I didn't have time to read through everything, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

Could there be an option to deny the individual rec? That way if you do get something you already know you don't want, you can just kick it back. When the rec request is denied, it would send a notification back to the sender. So if someone did spam a terrible album out to a large number of people, and they got it all back to them in the way of denials, they might think twice about doing it again.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

albummaster — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 11:26:32 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/17/2013 16:26

Thanks for the post. I'm just trying to cover all the bases before implementing anything. Tying this feature to charts means people will have to work with multiple lists of recommendations, which could be difficult for people to manage & keep on top of, so I think there also needs to be a single view containing all of a person's recs somewhere else (but the recs specific to the chart could remain listed on the chart, so we could have both).

There also needs to be some list management features (e.g. some way of removing items from the list once they've been checked out), plus the ability to add notes (like you mentioned). I don't know how we could ever prove the item was listened by the receiver, or even if it was useful to the receiver. Maybe the receiver of a rec could just have a thumb up to say 'thanks' or a thumb down to say 'no thanks!'. I've only ever tried RYM a handful of times, so I don't know how the system works on that site.

I'm a little unsure about, if someone is leaving recs on a particular chart, should their recs just be visible to the chart creator, or should they be visible to other people as well? Maybe people can choose when they leave the rec, whether it is public or private to the creator (could encourage spam), or perhaps the recipient can decide if they should be visible e.g. by only listing the 'thumbs up' recs. A block list would also be useful to stop recs from unwanted people (the person being blocked wouldn't know they are being blocked).

Finally, if people don't want to use this aspect of the site, it should be easy enough for people to turn the feature on and off from a user preference.

(sorry for repeating some of this, just assembling things together for future reference).

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 16:25:51 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/16/2013 21:25

albummaster wrote:

I suppose there also needs to be some way of a user providing feedback once they've checked the album out (or it could be a group of people if the rec has been to multiple people).

I omitted that because I'd rather not feel that I am under judgement when giving a rec. Also, people might give over-generous feedback to their friends as to not make them feel bad.

albummaster wrote:

This then brings up the issue of how to leave a rec and who the rec would be for. Do we allow people to leave a rec for more than one person, or people at large? The danger with the second option is that people rec Justin Bieber to everybody and your inbox fills up with crud from trolls, so recs would probably need to be between two or more individuals.

I'm not sure I understand the first question. In my initial post, I said that a rec would be made by leaving it in an individual's drop box, which my idea was also that it would be located on their charts. And IMO the same rec should be allowed to be given to multiple people, BUT one would have to literally visit each chart to do so. I was thinking the mechanics of adding a rec would be similar to adding an album on a chart (type in the album, here's a space for a comment).

As for spammers, I think swedenman has a pretty nifty solution: "users should have the option to block recs from certain users, or to block recs in general."

albummaster wrote:

I also don't think points should be awarded for recs as I think that could just lead to a lot of misuse (spamming other people with recs that they don't want etc).

I think the mod point is the most important part of my suggested idea here, so I'm going to be a bit strong about keeping this. The reason is that the mod points/ranking system of BEA is something that separates BEA from RYM. Without it, the dropbox would turn into a simple "received/given" statistic like on RYM. I think mod points add an extra flavour and also gives people an incentive to use it. Also, I'll emphasize that mod points are ONLY given once the album has been listened to. If the receiver considers it spam, then they can simply block the user (like swedenman suggested) and delete the rec, no reward for the giver of that rec.

However, this does give me second thoughts on the idea that both people should be given mod points after adding the album as "listened". I'm now thinking that only the giver of the rec gets mod points, so that receivers of spam don't habitually add albums as "listened" just for the points.

albummaster wrote:

The way I'd originally envisaged this was having a separate recommendations tab where a list of rec's would appear from other people (personally, I think recs should be listed separately from charts as charts are cluttered enough as it is & they don't really 'belong' to a chart I don't think), and also recs could be more free-form without having to be tied to a year or decade etc. I'm in favour of doing something with this, but it's important to work out the right mechanism before anything is implemented and the devil is always in the detail.

Maybe they could be put separately from charts, I'm not sure if that is a big deal to me. People often check on their own charts though. Maybe it could be put on the "My Charts" page instead...? But, if it IS possible to put it in each chart page (and I'll explain why in a second), and the only problem is the cluttering thing, then here's a way it could be less cluttered: make each section (composition/changes/similar charts/ratings/favourites/comments) automatically minimized. Maximize them by clicking on each section. The rec drop-box would also be minimized.

So anyway, here's a possible benefit of locating rec dropboxes on chart pages. Often times, when a member makes a specific chart (year/decade/custom), sometimes members will leave recs in the comments for that specific theme, maybe saying "such-and-such album would be really good for this list". Same thing can happen for year and custom charts.

Buuutt, I don't think it's a problem to have rec drop-boxes placed somewhere else if people agree that it is more convenient. IMO, we should at least be careful not to place it somewhere where it appears out of the way. New members should be able to notice it without direction.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Defago — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 15:45:11 GMT

Author: Defago

Posted: 11/16/2013 20:45

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give Dropbox

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Cymro2011 — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 14:58:14 GMT

Author: Cymro2011

Posted: 11/16/2013 19:58

Ohhh I love this idea.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 05:16:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/16/2013 10:16

I don't think we need mods to check every rec, but users should have the option to block recs from certain users, or to block recs in general.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Patman360 — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:36:03 GMT

Author: Patman360

Posted: 11/16/2013 09:36

To combat trolling could moderators be put in charge of what goes into the dropbox and who puts it in?
There's no need for points to be given out either, that should save people from exploiting it to a certain extent.

Love the overall idea by the way.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

albummaster — Sat, 16 Nov 2013 04:10:25 GMT

Author: albummaster

Posted: 11/16/2013 09:10

I've been thinking of this for a while too but not had time to do anything. I like the general idea of recommendations. I suppose there also needs to be some way of a user providing feedback once they've checked the album out (or it could be a group of people if the rec has been to multiple people).

This then brings up the issue of how to leave a rec and who the rec would be for. Do we allow people to leave a rec for more than one person, or people at large? The danger with the second option is that people rec Justin Bieber to everybody and your inbox fills up with crud from trolls, so recs would probably need to be between two or more individuals. I also don't think points should be awarded for recs as I think that could just lead to a lot of misuse (spamming other people with recs that they don't want etc).

The way I'd originally envisaged this was having a separate recommendations tab where a list of rec's would appear from other people (personally, I think recs should be listed separately from charts as charts are cluttered enough as it is & they don't really 'belong' to a chart I don't think), and also recs could be more free-form without having to be tied to a year or decade etc. I'm in favour of doing something with this, but it's important to work out the right mechanism before anything is implemented and the devil is always in the detail.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

benpaco — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:15:01 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 11/16/2013 02:15

Kind of love this idea.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

HigherThanTheSun — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 21:12:53 GMT

Author: HigherThanTheSun

Posted: 11/16/2013 02:12

I love this. Also the option to make the rec private would be pretty cool.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:21:58 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/15/2013 23:21

Two more things:

1. Recs are automatically rejected (or just non-able to submit) if the receiver had already added the album as "listened" prior to that rec being submitted.

2. If the drop box also appears in decade and year charts, then obviously the only recs that can be given are for that specific decade or year (like an 80s chart can only be given a rec from an album released in the 80s).

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

SuedeSwede — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 18:08:13 GMT

Author: SuedeSwede

Posted: 11/15/2013 23:08

I would use this often, would be useful to me and clearly others.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:32:14 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/15/2013 21:32

I like this.

Re: Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:29:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/15/2013 21:29

This idea is genius.

Recommendation Drop Box on Chart Pages

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Nov 2013 16:25:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/15/2013 21:25

My site suggestion:

A place where users can drop recs to each other without having to make a comment about it. It's use is to have an organized and easy way to both give recs and check on recs that have been given to you. Have it be a section separate from comments and ratings and such, but below the chart itself.

I think this is the way it should look… have there be four columns:

- First column, a miniaturized version of the album cover appears with the title in blue text (as a link to the album page).
- Second column, the name of the user who is giving the rec.
- Third column, an OPTIONAL place for a comment by the giver of the rec (to add details about the album if they want, perhaps with limited characters to keep a cleaned, evenly spaced look).
- Fourth column, an empty square. The square will have a checkmark through it when the receiver of the rec adds the album as "listened".

To add something extra to it (as maybe a way to encourage people to give recs), mod points are given to both the giver and the receiver of the rec once the album has been added as "listened". Although this could possibly be abused with some teamwork between two people, it is something that could easily be noticed by other members anyway because the drop box shows the names of the giver of the rec (so people will notice if that rec is suspiciously always given by the same person).