Best Ever Albums

Re: Eras of Music History

SuedeSwede — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:43:46 GMT

Author: SuedeSwede

Posted: 11/26/2013 10:43

Defago wrote:

Wait so there was no music before 1900?

I think that yes, we can divide music into eras, but you'd need to allow for some overlapping. Yeah, sure, post rock was big in the 90's, but that doesn't mean hip-hop, grunge and bripop weren't having a boom in the near years as well. The progressive years, the disco years and the punk years definitely overlap at some point.

If you're talking to me, I was just expanding on Listmeister's original list rather than saying what it should be.

Re: Eras of Music History

Defago — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 01:03:18 GMT

Author: Defago

Posted: 11/26/2013 06:03

Wait so there was no music before 1900?

I think that yes, we can divide music into eras, but you'd need to allow for some overlapping. Yeah, sure, post rock was big in the 90's, but that doesn't mean hip-hop, grunge and bripop weren't having a boom in the near years as well. The progressive years, the disco years and the punk years definitely overlap at some point.

Re: Eras of Music History

Listmeister — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:46:17 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 11/26/2013 03:46

an_outlaw wrote:

My best guess at all this:

Pre 1963 - All music was awful
1963 - 1969 - The 60s
1970 - 1976 - Post Beatles
1977 - 1980 - Loads of dirty untalented bands/artists anyone can make it time.
1981 - 1985 - Golden Age of Music
1986 - 1989 - Era of Cassettes
1990 - The year of mostly subpar albums.
1991 - 1993 - Era of Nirvana
1994 - 1996 - The Drunk Years
1997 - 2000 - The Great Rock N Roll Misery Mire
2001 - 2004 - The Second Coming of Indie
2005 - 2007 - The Third Coming of Indie (Or the years the UK slapped 'Indie' onto any cheap Kinks/Blur imitation band.)
2008 - 2010 - Era of the Fork
2011 - present - Era of the Something Awesome Will Happen Real Soon We Promise

LOL. That was awesome. "Era of Cassettes", wait a second, yes, I did have a lot cassettes between 1986 and 1989. How did you know that?

Re: Eras of Music History

Patman360 — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 19:01:28 GMT

Author: Patman360

Posted: 11/26/2013 00:01

benpaco wrote:

You sound like the guys from High Fidelity ...

Link

Re: Eras of Music History

benpaco — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:39:47 GMT

Author: benpaco

Posted: 11/25/2013 23:39

Listmeister wrote:

I don't see the point of dividing rock history into eras. Its not a clear cut division so much as it is an evolution. A crescendo.

Listmeister wrote:

Besides which, it's a LIST. A list doesn't have to have a point, The List is the point.

You sound like the guys from High Fidelity ...

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:36:35 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 23:36

I like the After Beatles one. �'�

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:33:12 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 23:33

DarkSideOfTheComputer wrote:

BB and AB

Best interpretation = Before bebop, after bebop

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:15:16 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 23:15

DarkSideOfTheComputer wrote:

BB and AB

Please tell me you aren't referring to The Beatles.

Re: Eras of Music History

DarkSideOfTheComputer — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:00:58 GMT

Author: DarkSideOfTheComputer

Posted: 11/25/2013 23:00

BB and AB

Re: Eras of Music History

MrFrogger — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:00:10 GMT

Author: MrFrogger

Posted: 11/25/2013 23:00

We should spend less time on Listmeisters ridiculous opinions, and more time on Outlaw's even more ridiculous ones.

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:58:38 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 22:58

Listmeister wrote:

Is Reggae a variation of Rock? That's an interesting question, that I would love to hear some discussion about.

No, it's not. You can certainly argue that early rhythm and blues and soul had a big impact on rocksteady (as did jazz, obviously), and particularly the vocal harmonies and the image of many of the artists (nobody can understate Curtis Mayfield's influence, not just on Bob Marley's music but on reggae as a whole) but, more so than rhythm and blues, it was really ska which was the leading precursor to rocksteady and eventually reggae, and ska's lilting rhythms - whilst still obviously indebted to the R'n'B that was coming through on the radios of young Jamaican musicians - were really born out of mento and calypso music more than anything else, not too mention the very Jamaican, very un-rock, traditional Nyabinghi chanting and drumming (for a great example of these more traditional Jamaican musics continuing to bear influence well into the 1970s, just check out any of Lee Perry's production from around that time, particularly Heart of The Congos and his own Super Ape).

Re: Eras of Music History

Listmeister — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:43:37 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 11/25/2013 22:43

Mod wrote:

I'm going to clip your post into a few quotes to answer your points.

Point 1: I don't think anybody should discuss how rock is divided.

You can't tell the history of anything without dividing it up into sections. You need chapter breaks. You need context, you need a story going through it. I'd thought you didn't like my chapter breaks, but I guess you don't want any chapter breaks. That's fine, but I'm trying to get at the outline of the story.

Mod wrote:

In fact, I'm not even sure if rock is divided. I'm not even sure if music is divided. Bob Marley, for instance, where does he come in rock? Is he rock? Is he dance? Is he pop? Yes, he's reggae, but in terms of rock, what is he? Nothing, music is not divisional, there are many crossovers

Genre names and definitions are nothing more than useful tools for talking about what we're talking about. Except for when a band defines itself as belonging to a certain genre, I don't think they have any objective definitional meaning. Is Reggae a variation of Rock? That's an interesting question, that I would love to hear some discussion about. Myself, I'd want to do some research into its origins if I had to make a determination. For the purposes of the outline, however, I don't, because reggae sort of sits off by itself.

Mod wrote:

dividing rock music in particular would be a very bad mood, especially on this forum.

Oh, we divide rock music all the time on this forum. We divide good stuff from bad stuff. We divide this genre from that genre. What's so bad mood about dividing things chronologically?

Mod wrote:

Point 2: Lists need a point. If I made a list of my favourite brands of condoms to a 6-year-old and didn't tell him why I needed this list, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't look up at me and say, "You know what, I don't fully understand what this list means, or what purpose it serves, but you know, thanks for the list you just gave me," my opinion is you're trying to fulfill the role of 'Listmeister' a bit too pretentiously.

I explained the point of this list, and you responded to my explanation in Point One. You didn't like my reason for making the list, that's fine. I still say lists don't need to have a point if they are interesting.

You see, Listmeister is not a role, it's who I am. It's what I do. I'm gonna make lists, sure as the frog is gonna jump. If I make one that's interesting, I'll post it, and I thought this one was interesting.

I don't post every list I come up with. I made a list today of the top 20 albums by Crosby Stills Nash and/or Young. Turns out, 12 of the top 15 are by Neil Young. I decided it wasn't interesting enough to post, so I didn't post it.

Mod wrote:

Point 3: This is a forum of free-speech, and you're entitled to that free-speech, but now you're just talking out of your shitter mate.

You have this as a footnote where I said "2014 I can hear the shift in the wind..." It has been mentioned on this forum, by others, that 2013 has been a good year for albums, much better than 2012. That is one of the signs that the music world is readjusting. It's a calm before the storm, genres are in flux, new ones are starting to gel, but before they do, there's a wild experimentation in the air.

Any prediction about the future is going to have an element of talking out of one's shitter. I think I can hear the wind shifting, but it might just be my imagination. But I truly believe that this is the Era Of Something Awesome Will Happen Real Soon We Promise.

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:13:04 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 22:13

My best guess at all this:

Pre 1963 - All music was awful
1963 - 1969 - The 60s
1970 - 1976 - Post Beatles
1977 - 1980 - Loads of dirty untalented bands/artists anyone can make it time.
1981 - 1985 - Golden Age of Music
1986 - 1989 - Era of Cassettes
1990 - The year of mostly subpar albums.
1991 - 1993 - Era of Nirvana
1994 - 1996 - The Drunk Years
1997 - 2000 - The Great Rock N Roll Misery Mire
2001 - 2004 - The Second Coming of Indie
2005 - 2007 - The Third Coming of Indie (Or the years the UK slapped 'Indie' onto any cheap Kinks/Blur imitation band.)
2008 - 2010 - Era of the Fork
2011 - present - Era of the Something Awesome Will Happen Real Soon We Promise

Re: Eras of Music History

Necharsian — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:26:59 GMT

Author: Necharsian

Posted: 11/25/2013 21:26

Mod wrote:

If I made a list of my favourite brands of condoms to a 6-year-old

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Re: Eras of Music History

SuedeSwede — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 16:07:25 GMT

Author: SuedeSwede

Posted: 11/25/2013 21:07

I'm going to clip your post into a few quotes to show how I'm not fully comprehending your point.

Listmeister wrote:

The point is to generate discussion about dividing rock history into eras. [Point 1]
Besides which, it's a LIST. A list doesn't have to have a point, The List is the point. [Point 2]

Let me try again, with slightly different era divisions, no genres listed, and an explanation of boundaries.

2001 September 11 dumps cold water on all art forms, music included. What emerges is different.
2009 Jay-Z pronounces Death of Auto-tune; auto-tune use ceases.
2014 I can hear the shift in the wind..... [Point 3]

Point 1: I don't think anybody should discuss how rock is divided. In fact, I'm not even sure if rock is divided. I'm not even sure if music is divided. Bob Marley, for instance, where does he come in rock? Is he rock? Is he dance? Is he pop? Yes, he's reggae, but in terms of rock, what is he? Nothing, music is not divisional, there are many crossovers and dividing rock music in particular would be a very bad mood, especially on this forum.

Point 2: Lists need a point. If I made a list of my favourite brands of condoms to a 6-year-old and didn't tell him why I needed this list, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't look up at me and say, "You know what, I don't fully understand what this list means, or what purpose it serves, but you know, thanks for the list you just gave me," my opinion is you're trying to fulfill the role of 'Listmeister' a bit too pretentiously.

Point 3: This is a forum of free-speech, and you're entitled to that free-speech, but now you're just talking out of your shitter mate.

Re: Eras of Music History

MrFrogger — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:59:10 GMT

Author: MrFrogger

Posted: 11/25/2013 20:59

Listmeister wrote:

Jay-Z pronounces Death of Auto-tune; auto-tune use ceases.

Please don't tell me you're serious.

Re: Eras of Music History

alelsupreme — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:57:43 GMT

Author: alelsupreme

Posted: 11/25/2013 20:57

Listmeister wrote:

2009 Jay-Z pronounces Death of Auto-tune; auto-tune use ceases.

lol

Re: Eras of Music History

Listmeister — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:54:47 GMT

Author: Listmeister

Posted: 11/25/2013 20:54

Mod wrote:

I don't see your point here by the way.

MrFrogger wrote:

This. What's the point of oversimplifying music into short sentences, while totally excluding tons of genres?

The point is to generate discussion about dividing rock history into eras. The point of listing some genres was to provide a tiny bit of context. I didn't exclude any genres on purpose (and just because they aren't listed doesn't mean they're excluded), but you can't include everything when you're trying to simplify.

Besides which, it's a LIST. A list doesn't have to have a point, The List is the point.

Let me try again, with slightly different era divisions, no genres listed, and an explanation of boundaries.

1955-1963
1964-1969
1970-1976
1977-1983
1984-1990
1991-1996
1997-2001
2002-2008
2009-2014(?)

Boundaries. Music is changing rapidly on both sides of a boundary, the event highlighted is the tipping point. Usually it goes unnoticed at the time, and can only be seen in retrospect:

1955 Rock Around the Clock
1964 Beatlemania
1969 Abbey Road, Beatles break up
1977 Studio 54 kicks Disco into mainstream
1982-1983 Michael Jackson, Lionel Ritchie vs. 1984 Springsteen, Madonna
1991 Nevermind
1997 OK Computer
2001 September 11 dumps cold water on all art forms, music included. What emerges is different.
2009 Jay-Z pronounces Death of Auto-tune; auto-tune use ceases.
2014 I can hear the shift in the wind.....

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:43:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 20:43

While I agree with those who say this is horribly oversimplifying music history, we could still do a lot better here. The dominant genres of music vary dramatically from one part of the world to another, especially in the early periods. I'm going to assume that you're referring to American popular music, since that's what your list is focused on. I'm also going to focus on the most popular music, since it would be pointless to sit and argue about the "best" music of any era.

Listmeister wrote:

1888-1911 Wax cylinders (not enough data to determine generational styles)
1912-1919 Barbershop

The dominant styles of music included ragtime and cakewalk, as well as various novelty music coming out of Tin Pan Alley. Jazz and blues were being developed in New Orleans and the Mississippi delta, respectively.

Quote:

1920-1932 Two generations of Minstrals and Vaudeville

Jazz! The first jazz recording was in 1917 and young people all over America were into the craze. Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington each got their start during this period. The blues, while not terribly popular, were being recorded during this time as well, laying the groundwork for later styles (rock, R&B, soul, etc.).

Quote:

1933-1939 Big Band
1940-1946 World War II

Big bands (specifically, swing big bands) played a subgenre of jazz that was developed by band leaders like Count Basie and Chick Webb and popularized by Benny Goodman with his 1938 Carnegie Hall performance. Its popularity continued into the '40s and during WWII.

Quote:

1947-1954 Post WW II

Towards the end of the '40s and into the '50s, the popularity of jazz declined as its biggest proponents began to focus on making art music (specifically, bebop). What remained at the top of the charts were offshoots of the big band craze sometimes sometimes popularly referred to as "crooners." It was essentially big band music, except that the focus was on the vocalist rather than the band. This included people like Ella Fitzgerald, Doris Day, and Frank Sinatra. The post-war era was also notable for its experimentation -- this is when the seeds were laid for free jazz and electronic music.

Quote:

1955-1963 Rock and Roll

Rock and Roll dominated the charts in the mid-to-late '50s, spearheaded by a country-tinged spin on R&B known as "rockabilly." By the early '60s, however, many thought that rock and roll was dying. Meanwhile, the folk/blues revival was in full swing, with artists like the Kingston Trio, Joan Baez, and Peter, Paul and Mary achieving success. Artists like Muddy Waters also helped popularize the electric blues during this period. Finally, the most popular musical fad prior to the British invasion was the girl groups, the success of which continued later in the decade.

Quote:

1964-1970 Beatles and the British Invasion

This period saw a rapid growth in the sophistication of rock music. The Beatles and Beach Boys kicked it off in 1963 and 1964, but things really took off from there. Various subgenres of rock began to emerge, the most popular of which were psychedelic rock, blues rock, and folk rock.

The other style of music that was both developing and extremely popular was soul music. The most well known source of this music was the Motown record label, which laid claim to most of the highest-charting soul musicians of the time.

That's as far as my music history project has gone right now, so my knowledge of the later periods is more limited, but still...

Quote:

1977-1984 Disco, MTV and Punk
1985-1991 Big hair metal, early rap

Electronic and New Wave music were very popular in this period. Post-punk and alternative music were also developing in the underground, setting the stage for '90s rock. Also, some consider the late '80s and early '90s to be the golden age of hip-hop. It didn't become a major player on the charts until the mid-to-late '90s.

Re: Eras of Music History

Anonymous — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 14:28:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 11/25/2013 19:28

Listmeister wrote:

2000-2008 Not sure what to call these years

Indie rock and post-grunge? And I agree with Patman. Blues and Jazz deserve a spot. And I'd say hair metal was also kind of early 80's thanks to KISS, Motley Crue, and Dokken. But yes, most got success in the mid-80's, like GNR, Def leppard, Bon Jovi, Cinderella, and Ratt.

I don't see a rap generation here.

EDIR: also, I know I bitch a lot, but some people just don't want to explore new kinds of music. I get why music buffs like us wouldn't like genre seperation, but not everyone's a music buff who's heard 1,000 albums, let alone 300.