Best Ever Albums

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

jlsfourth — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:46:03 GMT

Author: jlsfourth

Posted: 08/22/2014 12:46

The only 2 that Sabbath win are Paranoid over II and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath over Houses of the Holy. The rest, Zeppelin kills

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

mickilennial — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:45:53 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 08/15/2014 17:45

Mies wrote:

Gowie's comparison was in order to explain how metal formed during the 70s like rock formed during the 50s.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 10:31:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/15/2014 14:31

RepoMan wrote:

...Sabbath as they are arguably still the most influential band in metal. You didn't readily hear Chuck Berry's influence on the rock bands of the 70s & 80s whereas Sabbath's dark shadow looms large over the metal landscape of the 90s and noughts.

Completely agree about that.
I guess Gowie's comparison was in order to explain how metal formed during the 70s like rock formed during the 50s.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 09:27:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/15/2014 13:27

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Sad Wings Of Destiny by Judas Priest

I'm sorry but this is 100% metal. Nothing Chuck Berry about it. 😎

Link

edit: I'd also argue about the Chuck Berry comparisons where it concerns Sabbath as they are arguably still the most influential band in metal. You didn't readily hear Chuck Berry's influence on the rock bands of the 70s & 80s whereas Sabbath's dark shadow looms large over the metal landscape of the 90s and noughts.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 08:39:29 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/15/2014 12:39

Gowienczyk wrote:

You could consider the NWOBHM era the redefining era which can be attributed to records like The Number of the Beast, The Last Command, Crystal Logic, Don't Break the Oath, Operation: Mindcrime, Screaming for Vengeance, Keeper of the Seven Keys, Hall of the Mountain King, and many other staple records that deviated from the Deep Purple-esque Hard Rock and progressed it into what is commonly referred to as traditional heavy metal. The 1970s were the formative years just like they were for the 1950s with rock music. They went through a process that melded it from the Deep Purple (Chuck Berry for Rock) and fleshed it out into bands like Iron Maiden (The Rolling Stones for Rock). It is not imaginary and the line is not very thin. As for records that broke the line you could cite perhaps Wheels of Steel, Borrowed Time, Court in the Act, and so forth.

Yes, yes, you exactly got me with this! 😄
That's why I wouldn't consider Black Sabbath's debut as creation of metal, or that BS literally invented metal. That's why, to get back where I started.
As you said, Iron Maiden and generally NWOBHM are like the end of that process.
As for records that broke the line, I can totally agree on "Wheels of Steel". And... could this count?

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Iron Maiden by Iron Maiden

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 01:31:05 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/15/2014 05:31

Le_Samurai wrote:

Also, I'll use this as a chance to plug "Changes" off of Vol. 4. I don't know why, but I love this song. It shouldn't work, but Ozzy is surprisingly great here and it's actually moving.

Haha! I've had this same thought countless times. It really shouldn't work, but I love it.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Fri, 15 Aug 2014 00:37:07 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/15/2014 04:37

Black Sabbath. While I've come around to really liking Zeppelin's first 3 records, they quickly dropped off after that. I like about 1/2 of IV's songs and Houses of Holy is a near disaster in my book. Physical Graffiti is a bit of a step up from the previous 2, but it doesn't match up well with the first 3. Sabbath, one the other hand, really held it together well for their first 6 records. Master of Reality is my favorite (and their masterpiece in my book), but you can't go wrong with any of them. Also, I'll use this as a chance to plug "Changes" off of Vol. 4. I don't know why, but I love this song. It shouldn't work, but Ozzy is surprisingly great here and it's actually moving.

Link

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Captain_Dude — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 13:21:21 GMT

Author: Captain_Dude

Posted: 08/14/2014 17:21

BLACK SABBATH. It will always be Black Sabbath. They were the true pioneers of heavy metal. Their sound, look, subject matter, style...just everything about them was metal.

Led Zeppelin just played blues...really LOUD, distorted blues. But, still, at their bases, the first few Zeppelin albums were all just interpretations of the blues.

Don't get me wrong. I love Zeppelin. I love Jimmy Page. But, I also love the blues and I know it well when I hear it.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

WindowAbove — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:51:48 GMT

Author: WindowAbove

Posted: 08/14/2014 16:51

Sabbath all day

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

mickilennial — Thu, 14 Aug 2014 10:25:34 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 08/14/2014 14:25

Mies wrote:

Well I'm sorry if you can't even perceive my view. But the fact itself that you put here many albums and songs instead of 1 or 2 already confirms what I was saying. I already know some of them, and I agree that they are proto-metal, some of them I'd consider properly metal, too. But the line of difference between proto-metal and metal (heavy metal) is very thin, and there is not a single album or a single song that broke that line. That's what I was meaning.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:50:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/14/2014 02:50

Gowienczyk wrote:

Quote:

there aren't really groundbreaking albums or songs

Disagree, in fact I could write paragraphs and paragraphs why I can't even perceive such a view; if we're talking about proto-metal (which is a term I think works a lot better than early metal or w/e)

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

mickilennial — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:16:05 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 08/14/2014 02:16

Quote:

there aren't really groundbreaking albums or songs

Demons & Wizards by Uriah Heep

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Sad Wings Of Destiny by Judas Priest

Vol 4 by Black Sabbath

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Rising by Rainbow

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Never Turn Your Back On A Friend by Budgie

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:04:17 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/14/2014 02:04

Gowienczyk wrote:

You can disagree, but Black Sabbath is one of the factually given formative bands for the genre of heavy metal. What Sabbath created was traditional doom metal even though they still had trappings of psychedelic rock and blues-rock. When Stoner Rock came out it was this sort of "retro" throwback to a lot of bands, including Sabbath but I'll cover that in the genre extravaganza. But it's an objective fact that the following bands INFLUENCED and MADE THE BASIS for early metal:

Sir Lord Baltimore
Black Sabbath
Deep Purple
Rainbow
Uriah Heep
Led Zeppelin
Judas Preist

Well, you somehow got my point! Indeed, I tend to think it was more a GROUP of bands, coming from blues rock / hard rock and psych rock. Also, what we now define as "heavy metal" was more like a work-in-progress in my opinion: there aren't really groundbreaking albums or songs, I think. As I said, I think, anyway, that BS created something really unique and new, differently from bands like Led Zep or Deep Purple. And they are prob the most influencial band for stoner.
Yeah, those Sir Lord Baltimore did some pretty heavy music in the 1970. Didn't know about them, thanks!

PS: From a year, I discovered and went deeply into stoner rock. I also offered myself as a volunteer in the GE thread. I'm happy, anyway, you will do that, Gowie, but if you need any help, I'm here. 😄

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

mickilennial — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:58:01 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 08/14/2014 01:58

RepoMan wrote:

You know I have heard them referenced in a bunch in things I read back in the day, but I never got the impression that they were this great. The focus was always on Blue Cheer who I love, especially their first two albums. But, this is much more metal so I take your point.

Interestingly, I think the internet, sites like RYM, and streaming services where you can immediately check out albums are causing almost a revisionist telling of rock history. Which is totally, completely cool, just interesting.

I don't think I would call revisionist history as "completely cool" personally, "interesting" yeah.

Though, yeah, Sir Lord Baltimore played a louder looser version of the heavy psych movement at the time. It was an influential record, but it wasn't as heard as say Master of Reality, Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, or Sad Wings of Destiny. Shame though, really awesome stuff; and ironically christian lyrically.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:43:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/14/2014 01:43

Gowi wrote:

Their debut; you know the first record to be described as metal.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

mickilennial — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:31:14 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 08/14/2014 01:31

RepoMan wrote:

Completely agree!

But, who is Sir Lord Baltimore? And which album should I check out?

Their debut; you know the first record to be described as metal.

Link

Quote:

Coincidence or do you think Deep Purple were fans, Gowi?

I'm guessing coincidence, but it wouldn't surprise me; there was a lot of shared influence in those days (Lucifer's Friend and Led Zeppelin for example).

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:08:30 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/14/2014 01:08

Gowienczyk wrote:

Completely agree!

But, who is Sir Lord Baltimore? And which album should I check out?

edit: Checking out their s/t release from 1970. Incredible stuff (to put it mildly).

The riff from the second track reminds me of and predates Woman From Tokyo. Coincidence or do you think Deep Purple were fans, Gowi?

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

mickilennial — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:02:49 GMT

Author: mickilennial

Posted: 08/14/2014 01:02

Mies wrote:

I tend to enjoy more Led Zeppelin, and I think their music is somehow richer, but I think Black Sabbath have been much more important for rock music.
Led Zeppelin did something very heavy with their first albums, but that's all, and all in all they kept a way that was already being carried by many other bands: Cream, Blue Cheer, only to mention the most famous.
Black Sabbath are supposed to having invented metal: I tend to disagree, but the horror lyrics of their debut were a very innovative thing in rock. And that's not all. With albums like MOR and Paranoid, they created a style which, later, will be followed and developed as stoner rock. I tend to think it wasn't properly stoner yet, but anyway everytime I listen to a good stoner rock bands - no matter if 90s, 00s, or 10s - I clearly hear Black Sabbath influences in.

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:54:03 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/14/2014 00:54

Mies wrote:

😁

I agree with most of your take. (except for the fact that I enjoy Sabbath way more than Zeppelin.) Which bands do u think invented metal?

edit: And Sabbath is totally stoner rock. ( 😜 )

Link

Re: First 6 Match: Led Zeppelin Vs. Black Sabbath

Anonymous — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:40:40 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 08/14/2014 00:40

I tend to enjoy more Led Zeppelin, and I think their music is somehow richer, but I think Black Sabbath have been much more important for rock music.
Led Zeppelin did something very heavy with their first albums, but that's all, and all in all they kept a way that was already being carried by many other bands: Cream, Blue Cheer, only to mention the most famous.
Black Sabbath are supposed to having invented metal: I tend to disagree, but the horror lyrics of their debut were a very innovative thing in rock. And that's not all. With albums like MOR and Paranoid, they created a style which, later, will be followed and developed as stoner rock. I tend to think it wasn't properly stoner yet, but anyway everytime I listen to a good stoner rock bands - no matter if 90s, 00s, or 10s - I clearly hear Black Sabbath influences in.