Best Ever Albums

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 12 Jan 2014 12:07:50 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/12/2014 17:07

Enough debating semantics of solo versus band. Sun Ra wins, point is moot.

15-11

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:37:31 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/08/2014 03:37

Sun Ra was pretty incredible, and I'd like to thank Kool Keith Sweat for introducing him to me.

However, it's still not quite enough for me to turn my back on Zappa.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Hayden — Mon, 6 Jan 2014 20:15:26 GMT

Author: Hayden

Posted: 01/07/2014 01:15

Zappa's best work was really with the Mothers.

I'll stick with Sun Ra on this one 😄

EDIT: I accidentally voted Zappa 🫢 My bad.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

meccalecca — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:29:24 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 01/06/2014 02:29

sp4cetiger wrote:

I would love to see Sun Ra go deep in this tournament, so I guess I'm biased, but I really don't think he was any less the leader of those albums than most of the other artists we're talking about here.

I kind of regret not nominating Ennio Morricone though, since I decided he was too dependent on orchestras, but goddamn he deserved to be included, especially considering East River Pipe (who I picked in replace) is gonna be up against John Lennon anyway.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:08:21 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/06/2014 02:08

meccalecca wrote:

At this point we might as well give up that argument and focus on quality of work.

I agree with this. I actually think any album billed with a single individual's name should count, even if it says "and blah blah band" or if the band is named after the individual. If the individual didn't write the songs or leaned too heavily on backing musicians, a user can choose to consider that in their voting and/or mention it in the thread.

I would love to see Sun Ra go deep in this tournament, so I guess I'm biased, but I really don't think he was any less the leader of those albums than most of the other artists we're talking about here.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

meccalecca — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 20:35:18 GMT

Author: meccalecca

Posted: 01/06/2014 01:35

I knew the debate in regards to what is solo would drive people nuts, which is why I attempted to ask a bunch of questions in the nomination phase. It's a very very fine line. Nearly everyone nominated received help. Eno had Fripp play on the bulk of his records. PJ Harvey has John Parish. Kanye has an endless stream of guests. Eminem had Dr Dre. Waits has a fine collection of backing musicians. Look at the bracket and tell me how many of these musicians actually made albums without any contributions from other musicians. There's a few, but it's a minority.

At this point we might as well give up that argument and focus on quality of work.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 18:12:31 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 23:12

I personally think the Arkestras on the titles are nominal, especially considering that Sun Ra is the definitive band leader (in a jazz sense). He does have players that stay with him throughout his career, but each Arkestra has shifting players throughout each release the name is put on; there is no definitive backing band. BEA contains both variations of just 'Sun Ra' and Sun Ra among his various Arkestras, but most of the albums I'm concerned with are mostly just listed under 'Sun Ra' on the site. I know I'll personally be voting for him throughout the tournament given that I believe his discography is better than his opponents'.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 18:03:54 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 23:03

Tbh the vast majority of the Sun Ra I've listened to has been illegally downloaded and without having seen the album artwork I've never really known what it's been listed as. Some of the mp3s have been tagged as Sun Ra, some have been tagged as some variation on the Arkestra, and many haven't been tagged at all. It was only upon looking at this thread that I saw some of the covers of albums I'm familiar with for the first time and thus realised what name they were released under. I'm all in favour of Sun Ra being in this tournament, I voted for him and I'm sure he's more of a 'solo artist' than many of the other nominees. So yeah, ignore me.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:48:48 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 22:48

I think someone (either nutso or the person nominating) should list all of the eligible albums up front. Sun Ra's best work was almost all credited to some variation of his Arkestra and I would choose to abstain had I known those albums were all ineligible. It looks like most of the early voters were also considering ineligible albums, so Frank Zappa may have already been unfairly eliminated from the tournament.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:14:36 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 22:14

nutso42 wrote:

People, please, enough debating over the rules. If it's credited to a solo artist, it's eligible.

So the album you give in the lead post is ineligible?

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

drakonium — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:06:52 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 01/05/2014 22:06

lethalnezzle wrote:

It's all based on what name the album is listed under. I believe that anything listed under "Sun Ra" is eligible, but anything listed under "Sun Ra & (any variation on his Arkestra)" is not.

That's what I think too.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:03:06 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 22:03

sp4cetiger wrote:

Hmm... if his wiki discography is to be believed, then none of his albums that have been mentioned so far are eligible (other than Lanquidity) and most of his votes so far are based on ineligible work. I feel like the formal rules are coming up against common sense here...

It's all based on what name the album is listed under. I believe that anything listed under "Sun Ra" is eligible, but anything listed under "Sun Ra & (any variation on his Arkestra)" is not.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Jasonconfused — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:53:28 GMT

Author: Jasonconfused

Posted: 01/05/2014 21:53

Voted Frank Zappa, but I agree with anyone saying that his best work is with The Mothers. But Hot Rats alone...

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:46:32 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 21:46

sp4cetiger wrote:

People, please, enough debating over the rules. If it's credited to a solo artist, it's eligible.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

drakonium — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:41:42 GMT

Author: drakonium

Posted: 01/05/2014 21:41

Kool Keith Sweat wrote:

compositions and arrangements are always by Sun Ra alone

Hegarty has written and composed I Am A Bird Now alone, too, but there are still the Johnsons 😕

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:11:27 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 21:11

compositions and arrangements are always by Sun Ra alone

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:08:10 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 21:08

lethalnezzle wrote:

Those shouldn't be taken into account in this tournament because they aren't listed under Sun Ra as a solo artist. But yeah, another vote to Sun Ra here.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 15:56:57 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 20:56

sp4cetiger wrote:

I'm pleasantly surprised by the results so far. Sun Ra all the way. Two special favorites:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Jazz In Silhouette by Sun Ra And His Arkestra

(^This was before he got really experimental, but it's still a masterpiece, IMO.)

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Secrets Of The Sun by Sun Ra

Those shouldn't be taken into account in this tournament because they aren't listed under Sun Ra as a solo artist. But yeah, another vote to Sun Ra here.

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 15:03:18 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 20:03

I'm pleasantly surprised by the results so far. Sun Ra all the way. Two special favorites:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Jazz In Silhouette by Sun Ra And His Arkestra

(^This was before he got really experimental, but it's still a masterpiece, IMO.)

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Secrets Of The Sun by Sun Ra

Re: BSAT Round #1: CLOSED - Sun Ra def. Frank Zappa

Anonymous — Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:30:14 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 01/05/2014 19:30

Sun Ra