Best Ever Albums

Re: This site is awesome but....

Anonymous — Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:56:52 GMT

Author: Anonymous

Posted: 09/14/2010 03:56

[quote="ffudnebbuh"][quote="Freddie55"][quote="ffudnebbuh"] Right now, Pandora is the best way to listen to music because I hear so much new music..I really like it. It is the very much like the old AM station that I listened to as a kid.[/quote]

I believe that radio's numbers must have dropped even more precipitously than music sales. Nobody that I know under the age of 30 listens to radio or even internet radio. Why bother when you have an iPod? Friends my age only listen to the CBC.... and their iPods! I listen to radio when I drive but dislike all the stations. I'm going to get an auxillary jack installed in the car for my iTouch.[/quote]

Good point[/quote]

I don't listen to it much, but I listen to Tejano radio at least an hour a week. It's more lively than most stuff, but not very diverse

Re: This site is awesome but....

Wazzup — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 10:56:13 GMT

Author: Wazzup

Posted: 09/12/2010 14:56

On the original discussion; I am a predominately Rock fan, but I also love Cool Jazz, Blues, Classical, Electronic etc. To me these really represent the pinnacle of musicianship. That's why I really consider them some of the best genres. To someone who is not educated in Rap (like myself) think Rap is focused on artists like 50-cent or Soulja Boy and that is an instant deterrent. Rap just seems lesser, musically. I know that probably isn't the case but that's the idea music listeners get. Jazz is also very heavy, and although I consider a more advanced, more musical form of.. well, music than Rock even, people just can't click with it; it's too daunting.

Although this site is called besteveralbums I would love to see more classical on the charts because I really consider Romantic music to be the very best of music.

I cannot say anything for that of Soul music because I have no knowledge in that field.

Sorry if this seems bias or dismissive, but it's just my view.

Re: This site is awesome but....

ffudnebbuh — Sun, 4 Jul 2010 11:01:42 GMT

Author: ffudnebbuh

Posted: 07/04/2010 15:01

Freddie55 wrote:

ffudnebbuh wrote:

Right now, Pandora is the best way to listen to music because I hear so much new music..I really like it. It is the very much like the old AM station that I listened to as a kid.

I believe that radio's numbers must have dropped even more precipitously than music sales. Nobody that I know under the age of 30 listens to radio or even internet radio. Why bother when you have an iPod? Friends my age only listen to the CBC.... and their iPods! I listen to radio when I drive but dislike all the stations. I'm going to get an auxillary jack installed in the car for my iTouch.

Good point

Re: This site is awesome but....

Freddie55 — Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:57:10 GMT

Author: Freddie55

Posted: 07/04/2010 14:57

ffudnebbuh wrote:

Right now, Pandora is the best way to listen to music because I hear so much new music..I really like it. It is the very much like the old AM station that I listened to as a kid.

Re: This site is awesome but....

ffudnebbuh — Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:56:26 GMT

Author: ffudnebbuh

Posted: 07/04/2010 13:56

Freddie55 wrote:

ffudnebbuh wrote:

I hate to say this, but when I was a kid, everything was on the one station in your town...Led Zep, Aretha, Beatles, Hendrix, MC5, Motown, etc...

I'm the same age as you. In Toronto we had AM and FM stations dedicated to specific genres and age groups. I listened to Chum FM and then later to CFNY for their rock album format and new edgy music respectively. Regardless, neither you nor I heard everything. We only heard whatever the label promoted or what a resilient act manager was able to place. Nielsen SoundScan says that 97,751 albums were released in 2009 alone. That's a lot of songs for one radio station to play :)

I agree, we heard what the labels were pushing, but in retrospect, there was very little that we weren't exposed to, part of the reason of course was that there wasn't nearly as much music being released as there is now. But something has to give because according to RIAA, sales are down drastically from 2000 and I blame the formats. That is the only reason that I can thing of that would explain it. There could be other explanations, though...people are able to buy one song from an album instead of having the buy the whole thing...
People just aren't being exposed to as much music today ..I was trying to make the point that there are few stations today that play the breadth of songs that the average AM station played in 1967, stations were much more diverse than the average FM station today..today there way too many genre and sub genre stations to get a good feel for everything that is out there...what is going on in music..the FM station that I used to listen to in 1977 played Led zep, Pink Floyd, Isley Brothers, Tom Waits, Randy Newman, Patti Smith, MC5, Sex Pistols, Fleetwood Mac, Kinks, Rufus,etc.
today is a led zep/pink floyd/ metallica station...there are no stations that I listen to today on a regular basis now. Right now, Pandora is the best way to listen to music because I hear so much new music..I really like it. It is the very much like the old AM station that I listened to as a kid.

Re: This site is awesome but....

Freddie55 — Sun, 4 Jul 2010 09:45:15 GMT

Author: Freddie55

Posted: 07/04/2010 13:45

ffudnebbuh wrote:

I hate to say this, but when I was a kid, everything was on the one station in your town...Led Zep, Aretha, Beatles, Hendrix, MC5, Motown, etc...

Re: This site is awesome but....

ffudnebbuh — Sun, 4 Jul 2010 08:20:49 GMT

Author: ffudnebbuh

Posted: 07/04/2010 12:20

I understand exactly what the author of this post means...to me the answer is to just create the list of your favorite music...the more different types of music is posted, the more people with different tastes will populate this site. The majority of the people on this forum are very young and haven't yet been exposed to a lot of the music that is out there. But I don't blame the kids, I blame way music is heard these day..
(off topic) Music, today, is disseminated in too many different demographically oriented clusters...you have to really search to find a "place" that plays different types of music...That is the reason why the record business revenues go down a couple percent each year since the 2000.,,,I hate to say this, but when I was a kid, everything was on the one station in your town...Led Zep, Aretha, Beatles, Hendrix, MC5, Motown, etc...

Re: This site is awesome but....

Mr. Shankly — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:50:06 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 06/26/2010 19:50

alovesupreme wrote:

Rap hasn't been mainstream since the late 70's....it didn't exist until the late 70's. it didn't come of age until the early 90's. It wasn't until "pop" rap like MC Hammer that it really was recognized by the general public.

I'm not a rap expert by any means, but I know a bit about its history. I'm pretty sure Rapper's Delight by Sugarhill Gang charted (that was the late 70's). I don't know what you mean by "came of age," but rap first went multi-platinum with Run Dmc's Raising Hell album and The Beastie Boys License to Ill to a lesser extent in the mid 80's. I know. I was a teenager then. Also, both NWA's debuts and Public Enemy's first two albums came out in the late 80's, so I would argue it started in the late 70's, started gradually moving into the mainstream in the 80's and yes, exploded in the 90's. Most cultural movements are like that--a gradual progression. They don't happen over night.

Re: This site is awesome but....

Freddie55 — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:39:57 GMT

Author: Freddie55

Posted: 06/25/2010 04:39

gptp20 wrote:

However for once I would love to see a list that doesn't include 3-4 Beatles albums in the top 10. They undoubtedly had a profound impact but... there are so many other classics from other styles

Albumaster said in another thread: "I think a better answer to the chart-size issue is to allow people to create multiple (and different types of) charts so they can pigeon hole their albums into e.g. a decade chart, a genre chart, a year chart etc. This would be a better idea than having an extra long chart which gets a bit wishy-washy or disjointed towards the end because people want to do lots of things wthin the same chart.

Basically, the next set of major features that will be developed can be summarised as: genre charts, moderation system, multiple charts per user. This will increase the user engagement (alluded to by Freddie55) and give people more to do here on BEA.

As mentioned previously on the forum, bigger/more charts means a lot more background administration work for the administrator (me!) in keeping the site working correctly, hence the proposed changes will be implemented in the above sequence to allow the site to scale better as it becomes more popular (so that it requires less administration per user).

The above was always the road-map in my head (and I have mentioned genres before and I have never ruled out bigger charts), but my 'day job' is taking up most of my time leaving not a lot enough time for BEA (although I have spent a lot of time recently creating RSS feeds to syndicate on other sites).

I really want to write these new features because the site now gets quite a lot of traffic, but on the other side I cannot afford to entirely give up my day job to do this because BEA doesn't financially allow this, so it's more a labour of love to me than a proper business that I have to fit into my spare time.

The above roadmap requires a lot of development work (probably several months of my 'free' time which I need to find outside of my day job) to develop the new features. I really value everybody's feedback and these changes *will* get done, it just takes a bit of time to do some of these things. So, please be patient and understand."

That will open up discussion of a greater variety of genres if the interest is here.

http://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=861

Re: This site is awesome but....

gptp20 — Fri, 25 Jun 2010 00:24:19 GMT

Author: gptp20

Posted: 06/25/2010 04:24

exactly and I didn't mean to come here and criticize this site because I think this site is really cool... and kind of prefer it to rate your music

I agree that music criticism is very focused on rock and there are obviously many reasons for that. Maybe more than anything I hoped maybe there could be an effort at this site to aggregate some lists that could be inclusive of other styles and could create a better list more representative

Obviously music is subjective but creating these lists is really fun and makes for good discussion. However for once I would love to see a list that doesn't include 3-4 Beatles albums in the top 10. They undoubtedly had a profound impact but... there are so many other classics from other styles

Re: This site is awesome but....

alovesupreme — Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:13:52 GMT

Author: alovesupreme

Posted: 06/25/2010 01:13

Rap hasn't been mainstream since the late 70's....it didn't exist until the late 70's. it didn't come of age until the early 90's. It wasn't until "pop" rap like MC Hammer that it really was recognized by the general public.

and yes, there is a serious lack of diversity. but that's not a problem with just this site. it's an issue with music criticism in general.

like the other poster said, rateyourmusic will have more jazz but it will basically be only davis, coltrane and mingus so it won't really be a fair representation.

jazz is a bit intimidating to those who mostly listen to rock and pop. it helps (but isn't necessary) to have a knowledge of music theory and composition and it's mostly instrumental and difficult to tell the difference between stuff and understand why its so good. the pieces are generally longer too.

Re: This site is awesome but....

Mr. Shankly — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 13:10:51 GMT

Author: Mr. Shankly

Posted: 06/22/2010 17:10

gptp20 wrote:

To me if you are going to make a "best albums" of all time list and barely consider albums of other genres you might as well be straightforward from the beginning and state your list is specifically for Rock music.

As far as more worldly participation, I guess I could have provided some examples there as well. I am predominantly a rap fan but I enjoy music from Latin America as well. What about samba and bossa nova from Brazil, Tango from Argentina, Bachata, Salsa, Cumbia? I wouldn't consider myself an expert on Asian music but it would be interesting to try and include classics from China, South Korea, Japan. Sitar music from India. How about Fela Kuti or other classic African musicians?

I do see the importance of these rock albums but it is clear that these albums are the albums that are most important to Americans and British listeners of a certain age and musical taste. I think it would be fun if we could put together an effort more representative of different musical tastes from different nationalities and viewpoints.

You make some interesting points. As far as rap goes, you have to keep in mind that rap has only been in the mainstream since the late 70's, so rock has about a 20 year head start. I know Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions is usually on those lists along with Tribe Called Quest's Low End Theory and NWA's Straight Outta Compton, but more could stand to be recognized. The "official" lists usually come from publications with predominantly baby boomer and generation X staffs. Rolling Stone is a great example. That might be why.

There are two reasons why I think the music list don't represent the global village yet: The most obvious is language and cultural difference. The other has to do with accessibility and what's promoted and made widespread in a given country. Although the internet certainly helps with accessibility. That is, if you want to find samba music or music from China. It's easy to find. But the average person might not seek it out, unless they hear it somewhere first or a friend recommends it to them. There are members on this site though that have albums outside the cultural mainstream. I know bossa nova is appreciated by a bunch of people. Also, there was a poll a while back about music with lyrics in another language. Most members said that they occasionally listen to it and enjoy it.

Re: This site is awesome but....

gptp20 — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 12:42:33 GMT

Author: gptp20

Posted: 06/22/2010 16:42

haha while I would admit that I am a fan of jazz and rap... i don't quite get why those music forms are considered second rate to 70's rock. As a rap fan I understand why some see it as inferior, but it undoubtedly means a lot to those who listen to it who grew up in a different environment and see the world in a different light. People who probably wouldn't and couldn't relate to The Beatles but find meaning in songs by Jay-Z. I think Jay-Z's string of bestselling albums is testament to that.

I don't have so much of a problem with the member's polls but rather with the "official polls" of publications such as rolling stone where there is an obvious bias towards 60's and 70's rock. One of the qualifications of a "recognised chart" on this site says "3. The chart is not limited to a particular music genre," yet every one of the official charts considers The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Smiths, Radiohead, and Nirvana as the pinnacle of music. All, at least to a rap, soul, and jazz fan, very similar types of music. To me if you are going to make a "best albums" of all time list and barely consider albums of other genres you might as well be straightforward from the beginning and state your list is specifically for Rock music.

As far as more worldly participation, I guess I could have provided some examples there as well. I am predominantly a rap fan but I enjoy music from Latin America as well. What about samba and bossa nova from Brazil, Tango from Argentina, Bachata, Salsa, Cumbia? I wouldn't consider myself an expert on Asian music but it would be interesting to try and include classics from China, South Korea, Japan. Sitar music from India. How about Fela Kuti or other classic African musicians?

I do see the importance of these rock albums but it is clear that these albums are the albums that are most important to Americans and British listeners of a certain age and musical taste. I think it would be fun if we could put together an effort more representative of different musical tastes from different nationalities and viewpoints.

Re: This site is awesome but....

cartoken — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 07:15:19 GMT

Author: cartoken

Posted: 06/22/2010 11:15

40footwolf wrote:

cartoken wrote:

is it jazz or rap that you call adding diversity !? what a joke !

What's wrong with jazz and rap?

i'm not saying that jazz and Rap are not good style. i have several rap albums in my chart and i love jazz too. actually when i started reading his post i founded it interesting i thought that he wanted to included more styles from the world (european, african asian ...etc), and non english albums... but he concluded in saying including rap and jazz, both mainstream styles and like usual, american ones (like 98% of the music styles in this website). i don't call that trying to be more worldwide ! but another rap fan who is frustrated to see the predominance of rock !

Re: This site is awesome but....

Richie Hunt — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:20:04 GMT

Author: Richie Hunt

Posted: 06/22/2010 10:20

I know what you are saying, but why cant the best music be made in the US & UK? Maybe that's just the way it is...

'rateyourmusic.com' rates/ranks music seemingly with less regard of the country of origin and genre - if you havent checked it out already you probably should.

I wonder if as the US economy loses its dominance of the globe and Europe struggles if this will impact music in the sense of the nationality of the bands? Maybe China could significantly increase their contribution to music since they are expected to become the largest producer of goods in several years time taking over the US.

Re: This site is awesome but....

40footwolf — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 06:12:02 GMT

Author: 40footwolf

Posted: 06/22/2010 10:12

cartoken wrote:

is it jazz or rap that you call adding diversity !? what a joke !

What's wrong with jazz and rap?

Re: This site is awesome but....

cartoken — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:44:26 GMT

Author: cartoken

Posted: 06/22/2010 09:44

is it jazz or rap that you call adding diversity !? what a joke !

Re: This site is awesome but....

40footwolf — Tue, 22 Jun 2010 02:07:24 GMT

Author: 40footwolf

Posted: 06/22/2010 06:07

I don't really know-this website attracts a pretty specific type of user, largely Generation Xers that have deep worship for "canonically" great music. They aren't the loudest in terms of forum posts, but in terms of chart makeup they are the vast majority, it seems.

This site is awesome but....

gptp20 — Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:23:51 GMT

Author: gptp20

Posted: 06/22/2010 03:23

I have been thinking about trying to make a site like this and just stumbled across this today. Compiling these lists is always fun and makes for good discussion.

My main problem with the lists is the lack of diversity in both musical styles and in country of origin. Obviously most of us are probably Americans or British but it would be fun to see an attempt to list more music from different genres and countries. I don't know the best way to do this on the site other than maybe incorporating major lists that focus more on maybe jazz or rap.

Is anyone else aware of lists like that or just frustrated that out of the top 50 albums of all-time include no groups outside of the us or england and only 1 (miles davis) outside of rock?