Guns/Gun ownership. - Politics & Religion - Forums : Best Ever Albums

alelsupreme
Awful.

Gender: Male
Age: 27

Random chat wasn't the place for this so I'm making a thread here.

BrandonMiaow wrote:

Yeah like, arming oneself in response to violence isn't unprecedented and isn't morally wrong. I mean...think of the Black Panthers. They armed themselves so they could protect their communities. Melting the guns is never gonna happen, and even if it somehow did you can't expect people to hold out for that hope while they face real danger.

This makes up most the reason I support it. Ownership allows marginalised and oppressed groups a very real opportunity to organise and defend themselves from violence (plus I don't like the idea of the state having the monopoly on power).

That said mass shootings/gun crime absolutely matter. I ain't gonna act like I know the answers or anything, but I think that they'd lie in funding for mental health treatment, background checks and perhaps restrictions on some types of weapons.

This probably isn't a particularly popular opinion and tbh I'm not fully convinced myself but fuck it, worth starting the conversation here.
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Romanelli wrote:

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BrandonMiaow

yeah sorry for talking so much in random chat. maybe someone/a mod should delete those? I know for a lot of people now is not the time for this conversation. I'm even kinda reluctant to talk so much in this thread but I guess I will since this is the place for it.

The thing about gun ownership is that it's a power play. Talking with someone who owns guns is different than with anyone else since they have that leverage over you - they are making themselves dominant - they could shoot you. It is why a lot of people own guns. Its really disgusting. Every little immature individualist whim has power behind it. And although I feel like with most of these people its just posturing sometimes it becomes action.

With regards to people with mental disorders, they need more resources absolutely but they're just one of the scapegoats for these events. Just like Muslims. They are the "other" that makes it seem like everything is alright in paradise. Its like the Charleston shooter - he was a racist - but people always like to say "oh he was mentally ill" to put off responsibility for the racist rhetoric they're always spouting off. "Oh we just talk about shooting black people, he actually did it!"

I don't really see there as being solutions in the conventional sense if I'm honest. Like I don't think you can "fix" the power structures that create this environment from within the power structures themselves. Laws, the courts, the police, they are not on LGBT people's side, though of course every little victory you get should be celebrated. To me the way to do it would be to form outside communities of resistance, and I think there is a lot of history to look back on for ideas. People already do this I'm sure. idk. its just exhausting isn't it? You just have to remember that for every evil there are people struggling against it with everything they have.

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

Think we once had a pretty lengthy gun control thread here, has it been locked already?

Re: the posts in Random chat - while I can get why somebody would think of arming themselves or their community for protection, you have to keep in mind: if YOU (the nondescript second person) can get a gun, everybody else can, too. It's rather illusory to expect that more guns on the street will actually help lower the violence against the oppresed - if it's systemic oppression, then it will exist regardless (or even reinforce it), if not, then those "oppresors" are just as capable to purchase the same weapons and possibly more likely to use them anyway. Also, who's to say the oppresed will use those weapons only for a "good cause", if we're mentioning Black Panthers, weren't they also known for some rather unpleasant shit as well?

Maybe somebody with a gun in Pulse or Bataclan could save some lives in that situation, but mostly it would just make all the other daily situations rather unsafe.

That's not to say it's easy to implement gun control laws.

alelsupreme
Awful.

Gender: Male
Age: 27

BrandonMiaow wrote:

yeah sorry for talking so much in random chat. maybe someone/a mod should delete those? I know for a lot of people now is not the time for this conversation. I'm even kinda reluctant to talk so much in this thread but I guess I will since this is the place for it.

Yeah that was a dickhead move of me but cats out the bag now so figured I may as well make this.

Quote:

I don't really see there as being solutions in the conventional sense if I'm honest. Like I don't think you can "fix" the power structures that create this environment from within the power structures themselves.
Laws, the courts, the police, they are not on LGBT people's side, though of course every little victory you get should be celebrated. To me the way to do it would be to form outside communities of resistance, and I think there is a lot of history to look back on for ideas.

This is basically what I'm about. I don't think the ideal solution to violence should come from the state, cos that leaves all power with them, and god knows that isn't ideal. You don't want to leave yourself defenseless, I think the aim should be to take power into your own hands - defence against both personal and institutional violence.

Quote:

With regards to people with mental disorders, they need more resources absolutely but they're just one of the scapegoats for these events. Just like Muslims. They are the "other" that makes it seem like everything is alright in paradise. Its like the Charleston shooter - he was a racist - but people always like to say "oh he was mentally ill" to put off responsibility for the racist rhetoric they're always spouting off. "Oh we just talk about shooting black people, he actually did it!"

oh absolutely, but I imagine it might do some good (tho ofc one can't treat away hate).
_________________

Romanelli wrote:

We're all fucked, lads.

alelsupreme
Awful.

Gender: Male
Age: 27

19loveless91 wrote:

if not, then those "oppresors" are just as capable to purchase the same weapons and possibly more likely to use them anyway.

That's not to say it's easy to implement gun control laws.

Yeah I basically feel that there's little chance of getting rid of guns whilst getting a system of government so lacking in institutional injustice that gun ownership couldn't be justified, so I'm thinking more "if there's gonna be guns, may as well keep yourself protected". It all boils down to self-defence for me.
_________________

Romanelli wrote:

We're all fucked, lads.

benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?

Age: 27
Location: California

I'll echo what I said before, handguns are alright in my book but there's just no reason to be modding those things to hold 20+ bullets, and there's no reason to go after automatic weaponry. If someone breaks in there's no way you need an assault rifle to stop them.

Past that, the idea of more guns stopping mass shootings here doesn't make sense to me. It's the opposite step as every other nation in the world took, and we already have about 1/3 people being a gun owner. For every 5 Americans, there are 4.5 guns. If that's not enough, what is? What's going to stop it? On top of that, there's going to be times anyone and everyone gets irrationally mad, and if it's the norm to be armed, those incidents can just escalate about 5x quicker.
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

Here's a fantastic article that delves into the gun problem in America, but if you don't feel like reading it, here are some of the key points:

This is a uniquely American problem. We have the most homicides by firearms by a lot