ADP #7 Donuts by J Dilla - Music - Forums : Best Ever Albums

souplipton

Gender: Male
Location: Toronto

Hayden wrote:

What is your stance on sampling in hip-hop? I can’t believe that in 2017 this is still a controversial topic, but apparently it is. There are people out there who will yell at producers because “they aren’t really playing the instruments” or “they stole that”, and I don’t really get that. Hip-hop is a genre based entirely on sampling. They take one thing, and make it into another. Sometimes that thing is better, and sometimes it isn’t. So, the question is do you think sampling music is (for lack of a better word) ethical, and should be respected as an art form?

This was discussed in a previous ADP, but I'll summarize my thoughts here. I believe sampling can be a legitimate artistic musical expression if it used to create a completely new piece of music. A list of samples used should be included in info about this new piece of music, and if the sample's presence in a song is substantial enough, then writing credit should be given to the original writer. In these instances I believe that sampling is an ethical, creative option available to a producer. If sampling is used lazily, where the original song plays out mostly unaltered for long stretches, and the sample isn't recontextualized at all (as occurs in some mashup music), then I don't think that you're creating a new piece of music, and therefore it isn't a legitimate artistic statement, and if credit is not given in these cases, then it is clearly unethical in my opinion.

Hayden wrote:

What’s your favourite track off of Donuts and why?

One for Ghost, that vocal sample is so soulful and the instrumentals built around it support that so beautifully. Second place would be Time: The Donut of the Soul, because that guitar sample is treated so perfectly.

Hayden wrote:

Did Dilla actually improve the tracks he was sampling, or just changing them? Is this a comparable thing?

I don't really think it's comparable in the case of sampling as it is in the case of cover songs. Covers are an attempt to make your own version of someone else's song, whereas to me sampling is an attempt to make a completely new and different song with elements of someone else's music.

Hayden wrote:

Does an artist’s imminent death affect your perceptions of an album? Also, should it? This question is not supposed to be meant with a negative perception. Personally, I believe that it should, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Sometimes it does, however I think that often people try too hard to view aspects of an album through the lens of the last work of a dying artist. I think some artists put their thoughts about their coming death into the album (for example, I get this from Bowie on Blackstar), and in those cases it makes understanding the music easier. In the case of Donuts, I get less of that. That being said, I do think that his imminent death might have affected a different aspect of the album. The album is 31 tracks averaging 1.5 minutes each, and given how little time he had left, it's possible he left the songs as short snippets rather than completed songs because he didn't care about finishing songs as much as he cared about putting to record as many ideas as possible. His previous album was around the same length with half as many tracks, so this might explain the change. More likely though, this is simply me reading too much into things.

Hayden wrote:

Who do you believe is the greatest hip-hop producer of all time?

Top 5 in no particular order: Bomb Squad, DJ Premier, Dr Dre, RZA, and Kanye.

Hayden wrote:

Challenge/experiment: Now, this is purely for fun and I’m not entirely sure if I’m even expecting anyone to do it. I’m challenging anyone to making a sample based hip-hop instrumental and share it. That’s the challenge. Simple as that. Just wanna see what people come up with. You can send/post them however you want.

I don't know anything about making music, so I doubt I'll be contributing to this, especially because my life is kind of hectic at the moment. Love that you included this challenge in the ADP though, I think it's awesome. Also really enjoyed your instrumental track, was pleasantly surprised by that. Great job on the ADP.

souplipton

Gender: Male
Location: Toronto

Graeme2 wrote:

As for dilla, he was a fantastic producer but unfortunately I'm not really a massive fan of donuts.

Have to agree with this. I've always appreciated Dilla for his talent more than out of enjoyment of his music.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

dividesbyzero wrote:

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Indeed. I gotta adult as it's like 1am when I'm getting to this, but indeed, indeed.

Hayden

Location: CDMX

sethmadsen wrote:

Indeed. I gotta adult as it's like 1am when I'm getting to this, but indeed, indeed.

Quote:

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Thanks guys Smile

Glad you liked it.

Quote:

I don't know anything about making music, so I doubt I'll be contributing to this, especially because my life is kind of hectic at the moment. Love that you included this challenge in the ADP though, I think it's awesome. Also really enjoyed your instrumental track, was pleasantly surprised by that. Great job on the ADP.

And that's fair enough. I wasn't really sure if anyone would be able to do it Anxious

I was mostly looking to the community who makes their own music to see what they would come up with. Still holding out for at least one person to try. Smile

The reason for the challenge was just to see if people could gain a great appreciation for the talent behind the album.

Tha1ChiefRocka
Yeah, well hey, I'm really sorry.

Location: Kansas

1. I think sampling can make or break a hip hop album. There is that nuance that a producer like Dilla had (as you mentioned) that always kept it interesting. Sometimes samples can be quite jarring if they are not implemented correctly. The legal part of it does not interest me in the slightest.

2. The Diff'rence- For a song to be so dynamic and be based on such a simple piano and horn riff is quite amazing. The way he doctors the volume of the recording to make the piano undulate across the beat is pretty cool. But really the correct answer is all of them.

3. I think all good samples expose more people to good music in general. I don't know how many people actually looked up "21st Century Schizoid Man" when Ye sampled it, but if King Crimson garnered any more attention for it then good on him. So, yes, I do believe he improved upon the songs he sampled from. It gives those long forgotten (and some well-known) tracks a second life.

4. Tragedy and death have little bearing on if I enjoy the music. It's amazing what he and others like him did, but if the music is crappy it shouldn't be praised just because it's the last thing the artist released.

5. Dilla is a legend, but I think DJ Premier and Madlib would be the two that I tend to think of as my personal favorites.

As for the challenge, I might take you up on that. I have attempted to do things like that before with fairly poor results, but maybe I can make something listenable. It truly is an art form and takes skill.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Hayden wrote:

Quote:

you've outdone yourself Hayden. Real pleasure to read. Will be back with more substantive shit to say but first just wanted to say big up

Thanks guys Smile

Glad you liked it.

Quote:

I don't know anything about making music, so I doubt I'll be contributing to this, especially because my life is kind of hectic at the moment. Love that you included this challenge in the ADP though, I think it's awesome. Also really enjoyed your instrumental track, was pleasantly surprised by that. Great job on the ADP.

And that's fair enough. I wasn't really sure if anyone would be able to do it Anxious

I was mostly looking to the community who makes their own music to see what they would come up with. Still holding out for at least one person to try. Smile

The reason for the challenge was just to see if people could gain a great appreciation for the talent behind the album.

Are there any sites where you can do this online?

I want to try but I don't have the tools (perhaps just audacity or something...)

Sounds fun, but I don't know where to start.

Also, I got about 10 minutes in to the album tonight cause I really wanted to learn more about this and then Little Man woke up and was partying with him.

I really appreciate the effort put into this - I learned so much about a part of music I didn't even know I could appreciate... and what I love about this ADP stuff, is it is helping me discover music I probably wouldn't dig if you just said - hey man check out this record.

It helps having context is all. I gotta admit, I think if I was just listening to this without context I'd be like ok- it's some interesting loops/samples/beats, but what about it? Oh, and if I don't suck, I think I spotted a few samples of Beastie Boys in the short listen I got in?

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

By the way, we only got two spots left on the ADP listings.

Anyone is welcome to sign up for it, even if you were part of the first round. We'd be discussing new albums, so the fact someone is posting again doesn't matter.

Sign up here: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...mp;start=0

Hayden

Location: CDMX

sethmadsen wrote:

Are there any sites where you can do this online?

I want to try but I don't have the tools (perhaps just audacity or something...)

Also, I got about 10 minutes in to the album tonight cause I really wanted to learn more about this and then Little Man woke up and was partying with him.

I really appreciate the effort put into this - I learned so much about a part of music I didn't even know I could appreciate... and what I love about this ADP stuff, is it is helping me discover music I probably wouldn't dig if you just said - hey man check out this record.

It helps having context is all. I gotta admit, I think if I was just listening to this without context I'd be like ok- it's some interesting loops/samples/beats, but what about it? Oh, and if I don't suck, I think I spotted a few samples of Beastie Boys in the short listen I got in?

I don't think there are any websites online that you can make sample-based instrumentals, but if there are I can't imagine them being terribly inclusive. There might be though. Dunno.

For the most part you need a reasonable DAW. Audacity would work, but it'd be damn near impossible. Like, you can hammer in a nail with an orange, but I don't recommend it. You don't need anything extensive though. Even Garageband would suffice. I used Logic Pro for mine.

And def give the rest a listen sometime Smile

There'll definitely be some Beastie Boys samples in there (I think there are two or three on the album). I'm glad this helped you gain a greater appreciation for the album though, that's basically all I was aiming for, so that's cool to hear. Smile

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

What is your stance on sampling in hip-hop? I can’t believe that in 2017 this is still a controversial topic, but apparently it is. There are people out there who will yell at producers because “they aren’t really playing the instruments” or “they stole that”, and I don’t really get that. Hip-hop is a genre based entirely on sampling. They take one thing, and make it into another. Sometimes that thing is better, and sometimes it isn’t. So, the question is do you think sampling music is (for lack of a better word) ethical, and should be respected as an art form?

Define musician, right?

I think sampling can both hinder and help an artist. Sometimes artists sample stuff that is really popular, and people actually like the sample, so they in turn like the song, so in a way, the artist actually kind of looses credit for stuff like that. But then you have stuff like this album or the previous album Tap did for ADP, and it is it's own creation mostly. There's still a bit of oh, I recognize that song and dig it, so it brings up this - hmmm... I actually like the original and that's why I dig this, not because this in of itself is awesome (not speaking of Donuts, but sampling in general).

As for the ethical side of things, as long as they are credited, get the rights, or it is more fair use. It's all good.

What’s your favourite track off of Donuts and why? I didn't have one - nothing stood out to me as something special, but definitely quality.

Did Dilla actually improve the tracks he was sampling, or just changing them? Is this a comparable thing? Kind of like my opinion stated above - I felt he more created his own thing - so it wasn't that he improved them, he took bits of them to create his own thing.

Does an artist’s imminent death affect your perceptions of an album? Also, should it? This question is not supposed to be meant with a negative perception. Personally, I believe that it should, and I don’t see anything wrong with that.

Not really - I mean often the artist is really experienced at that point (in this case or Bowie's) so they probably have an amazing palate to work from and therefore is often better. But not always.

Who do you believe is the greatest hip-hop producer of all time?
I don't feel qualified to answer this question, so I'm going to name the only person I know... hahaha - Dr. Dre

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

I thought about this a bit more - anyone who likes the Beatles probably doesn't realize how much they used studio trickery rather than their ability to play as part of who they were. I'm not saying they couldn't play, but it would be ignorant to not understand that they too messed with tape loops, etc., even outside of Revolution #9 or whatever that song is called.

Also, I lied - the tracks where he made it sound like the tempo changes, etc. that was impressive given what I know about sampling and play back speeds and stuff.