Controversial Music Opinions On BEA! - Music

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

dividesbyzero wrote:

anyone who claims to like music is a fucking poser

Probably the greatest poser on this site AND I like music... the truth is spoken. Laughing

Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster

Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment

Sure Miles Davis has a huge musical legacy, but when you figure in the whole package, including his actual trumpet playing, he's badly overrated. Not only is he not top 10 among jazz artists, he's not even one of the top 10 jazz trumpeters.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

The masterpiece apparently is my least favorite. I still really like it (only one I have on wax). But thought it a bit funny... I guess the singing and distortion in Femme Fatale and the nonsense of The Black Angel's Death Song brought the score down. The rest of course is absolutely fantastic.

The Velvet Underground 90
White Light/White Heat 90
Loaded 86.5
The Velvet Underground And Nico 85

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Fischman wrote:

Sure Miles Davis has a huge musical legacy, but when you figure in the whole package, including his actual trumpet playing, he's badly overrated. Not only is he not top 10 among jazz artists, he's not even one of the top 10 jazz trumpeters.

Tell us more.

I like louis prima and louis armstrong - but I wouldn't really call them hardcore jazz artists either... they definitely were more on the pop side of things, and maybe that's what I like about them.

Hayden

Location: CDMX

sethmadsen wrote:

Tell us more.

I like louis prima and louis armstrong - but I wouldn't really call them hardcore jazz artists either... they definitely were more on the pop side of things, and maybe that's what I like about them.

It's called Swing Laughing

Prima, Armstrong, Basie, Goodman, and Ellington were all kings. And Louis Armstrong was a triple threat. I don't know how you can't consider him a jazz legend.

Swing was pretty much just the transition between ragtime and jazz. You'll probably dig a whole bunch of other swing artists then. Check out (along with the ones above) Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw and Tommy Dorsey. See whatcha think.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Hayden wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

Tell us more.

I like louis prima and louis armstrong - but I wouldn't really call them hardcore jazz artists either... they definitely were more on the pop side of things, and maybe that's what I like about them.

It's called Swing Laughing

Prima, Armstrong, Basie, Goodman, and Ellington were all kings. And Louis Armstrong was a triple threat. I don't know how you can't consider him a jazz legend.

Swing was pretty much just the transition between ragtime and jazz. You'll probably dig a whole bunch of other swing artists then. Check out (along with the ones above) Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw and Tommy Dorsey. See whatcha think.

Oh sorry, I'm pretty familiar with swing. My SLP had Glenn Miller in it.

I suppose I was referring to pop as in the broad sense, not the specific genre (short catchy tunes). Like the Boston Pops... that isn't pop music, but I feel it is pop classical music?

Django Reinhart was more jazz I feel... yet I could see that being swing too?

Meaning it is a short catchy tune instead of a 9 minute jazz improv, with the switching of soloists, etc.

Of course you know the lingo better, but perhaps that makes more since in what I meant (using pop wrong)?

Also is that a fair assessment - pop jazz (my uneducated term)=swing?

Genre's and I don't get along. Sorry for the uneducated words I used.

And to be clear I was referring to them as trumpet players... who are the top 10 if Davis isn't one of them?

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Fischman wrote:

Sure Miles Davis has a huge musical legacy ... the whole package ...

I agree with this! Laughing

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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

sethmadsen wrote:

The masterpiece apparently is my least favorite. I still really like it (only one I have on wax). But thought it a bit funny... I guess the singing and distortion in Femme Fatale and the nonsense of The Black Angel's Death Song brought the score down. The rest of course is absolutely fantastic.

The Velvet Underground 90
White Light/White Heat 90
Loaded 86.5
The Velvet Underground And Nico 85

You should upgrade Loaded to #1 just to further illustrate how differently we must be hearing their songs/albums Wink

Btw, the distortion and singing of Femme Fatale, and the claustrophobic noise of Black Angel's Death Song are not really "songs" so much as they are Expressionist theatre. Their accompaniments are illustrations of distorted reality, devastated psyches and mental collapse in an increasingly oppressive darkness and harrowing waking nightmare.
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Best Films
Best Paintings

Hayden

Location: CDMX

sethmadsen wrote:

Hayden wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

Tell us more.

I like louis prima and louis armstrong - but I wouldn't really call them hardcore jazz artists either... they definitely were more on the pop side of things, and maybe that's what I like about them.

It's called Swing Laughing

Prima, Armstrong, Basie, Goodman, and Ellington were all kings. And Louis Armstrong was a triple threat. I don't know how you can't consider him a jazz legend.

Swing was pretty much just the transition between ragtime and jazz. You'll probably dig a whole bunch of other swing artists then. Check out (along with the ones above) Glenn Miller, Artie Shaw and Tommy Dorsey. See whatcha think.

Oh sorry, I'm pretty familiar with swing. My SLP had Glenn Miller in it.

I suppose I was referring to pop as in the broad sense, not the specific genre (short catchy tunes). Like the Boston Pops... that isn't pop music, but I feel it is pop classical music?

Django Reinhart was more jazz I feel... yet I could see that being swing too?

Also is that a fair assessment - pop jazz (my uneducated term)=swing?

And to be clear I was referring to them as trumpet players... who are the top 10 if Davis isn't one of them?

Don't worry, I was just getting a kick out of you calling swing 'jazz pop'. And yeah, Django is usually referred to as 'gypsy jazz' or 'gypsy swing'. You could call his music swing though, that'd still be correct. I'm not too big on genres either, don't worry.

And I definitely don't agree with Miles not being in top 10 jazz trumpet players. That was Fischman, who I'm assuming puts Thad Jones, Lee Morgan, Chet Baker, Armstrong, Dizzy Gillespie, Hubbard, Navarro and Don Cherry ahead of him, but I have no idea who else (Clifford Brown?). I'd probably put Miles at the top with Gillespie.

Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster

Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment

Hayden wrote:

And I definitely don't agree with Miles not being in top 10 jazz trumpet players. That was Fischman, who I'm assuming puts Thad Jones, Lee Morgan, Chet Baker, Armstrong, Dizzy Gillespie, Hubbard, Navarro and Don Cherry ahead of him, but I have no idea who else (Clifford Brown?). I'd probably put Miles at the top with Gillespie.

Close--here's who I would actually rank ahead of Miles (strictly as trumpet players, not necessarily as overall artists)

Freddie Hubbard
Lee Morgan
Clifford Brown
Kenny Dorham
Thad Jones
Dizzy Gillespie
Nat Adderley
Donald Byrd
Blue Mitchell
Louis Armstrong (this one is admittedly questionable--maybe if he sang less and played more)

Also under consideration would be Novarro, Cherry, Bix Biederbicke and Roy Eldridge--not Baker though)

Miles' playing is rather limited. He had the ability to bring his compositions to light, but he certainly couldn't light it up like Hubbard, Morgan or Brown. He's either subdued, or when getting rowdy, just full of outbursts (much of which I really like), but either way, whether subdued or lively, his emotions are generally dark. I prefer bright and lively myself.

Which is not to say I can't appreciate Miles, even when he's being depressing (or at least subdued). I think 'In a Silent Way' is one of the greatest albums of all time in any genre. And there are dozens more I thoroughly enjoy (Bitches, Jack Johnson, On the Corner, Workin'/Cookin'/Relaxin'/Steamin', Pangaea, Agartha, 'Round About Midnight and many more), but there's always that bit of darkness hanging over his presentation. To me, others have broader range, being able to play ballads AND make use of space AND really light it up, technically speaking.