Iconic Album Standoff #1

[bobbyb5]

I just don't have the sort of mind that can apply that kind of analysis to a record. I wish I did, but I don't. In the end the only conclusion that iI reach is that Velvet Underground is an album I thought was really cool when I was about 17 years old, but Sergeant Pepper still sounds musically exciting and enjoyable all these years later. Velvet Underground doesn't.

[Tap]

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band by The Beatles

1) Composition Score:
What does it mean to say "The Beatles used the studio as an instrument"? It's an old cliche, people really do like to say it. What I think it means is that they took influence from musique concrete and embraced the idea of the recording being music rather than something that happens to music. The old way of thinking is that music starts out on paper and becomes a fully realized composition and then the recording happens to it. But on this album The Beatles fully embrace the compositional possibilities of having the sound of something be an integral component of what the music is. Composition score is 5.

2) Technical Score:
On the other hand, this innovation is still not fully recognized, as many people would consider what was discussed previously to be technical rather than compositional. This is evidence that it is an extreme innovation and so the Technical score is 5.

3) Emotional Score:
The Beatles songs evoke emotions for people, including humor. The Emotional score is 5.

4) Conceptual/Intellect Score:
I thought it was pretty smart how they used the studio as an instrument. The Conceptual/Intellect score is 5.

5) Creative Score:
It was also rather creative how they used the studio as an instrument. The Creative score is 5.

6) Emotional Depth Score:
While the Beatles songs are established as evoking emotions for people, some may argue that the depth of these emotions is lacking but when you really think about it, a variety of depth levels is a more depthful approach than privileging one depth level above all others, so the Emotional depth score is 5.

7) Conceptual/Intellectual Depth:
What I said above applies to all varieties of depth. The Conceptual/Intellectual depth score is 5.

Overall Score: 5/5


The Velvet Underground And Nico by The ...d And Nico

1) Composition Score:
While these compositions may not appear to be intricate, that is in fact a strength of the compositions, their willingness to operate horizontally and play with drones. This is a purposeful restraint and because of this the Composition score is 5.

2) Technical Score:
Some people might say that this album is a bit sloppy and you might say in response "oh yeah what's your proof" and then they would point to this interview with Moe Tucker expressing her frustrations with this album and how on Heroin and how she was playing without being able to hear or see what anyone else was doing and so just stops playing drums like "fuck this we need to have headphones or something", thinking that they'd re-record it. But that's what they used on the album https://dangerousminds.net/comments/moe...tes_heroin but that's what makes it rock and roll. The Technical score is 5.

3) Emotional Score:
There could be some people who say that the aloofness of this album should hurt it's emotional score, but in fact it is like with the composition, where the restraint is an asset, allowing for great catharsis when it really gets going. The Emotional score is 5.

4) Conceptual/Intellect Score:
These guys knew Andy Warhol, the Conceptual/Intellect score is 5.

5) Creative Score:
The thing about Andy Warhol isn't just that he was conceptual. He was also creative. The Creative score is 5.

6) Emotional Depth Score:
"Oh you're whining about waiting for your drug man that must be so hard for you", you don't understand, the Emotional depth score is 5.

7) Conceptual/Intellectual Depth:
This Completely necessary and not at all redundant score is 5/5.

Overall Score: 5/5

In my very thorough opinion, these albums are exactly tied and as such I will not be voting.

All kidding aside though I am curious if anyone who goes thru with this scoring sees any impact to that info about Heroin.

[Repo]

[RoundTheBend]

Yes, well played Tap!

[AfterHours]

_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

[Fischman]

Well, we've managed to find possibly the two most overrated albums of all time, so pitting them against each other certainly makes sense. As I really don't care for either, I can be completely unbiased in comparing them against the objective criteria presented

I'm usually among the first to declare the Emperor to be without clothing when Pepper comes up, but next to VU&N, he's actually draped in magnificent, artistic, and aesthetically pleasing finery.

Composition Score: While not nearly so great as portrayed, the Beatles were still bringing new compositional elements into music, both stuido-wise and music-wise, while VU&N is populated by the most basic, simple, tired and hackneyed/already done a million times, and even downright lame melodies, and dare I even say harmonies at all. It's hard to imagine anything this side Sesame Street to be less intriguing compositionally than VU&N.

Beatles win 3/1

Technical score: Relative to the time, Sgt Pepper is technically impressive. VU&N is a total sonic mess. It sounds like crap even relative to the technology of the day.

Beatles win 4/1

Emotional score: I don't see either album expressing much emotion even by the standard of the day. And what emotion VU&N does express isn't worth expressing. I'm sure there's a lot of joy in shooting smack, but that's a crappy basis for expressing emotion in a song. The rest of the album is scarcely better.

Beatles win 2/1

Conceptual/Intellect Score: No intellect to be found anywhere on VU&N. VU&N is often cited for laying some of the groundwork for Punk, which makes sense as Punk is a deliberately anti-intellectual genre. Somehow, VU&N tries to be artsy, but just ends up being pretentious, which is a real accomplishment given how dreadfully lacking it is in intellect. Pepper actually has some thought in some of it's songs.

Beatles win 3/1

Creative Score: While I don't personally cotton to Pepper, I do acknowledge that there is a lot of creativity within. I don't know if I'd say ideas were really "expanded" but there is some thought in the brevity of the songs. VU&N did put some new twists on the sounds they used to try to evoke thoughts and imagery, so they get a small boost in this category.

Beatles win 4/2

Emotional Depth Score: Other than "She's Leaving Home," Pepper doesn't exhibit a whole lot in the way of immersive, experiential depth of emotion. VU&N may actually show a little more depth here, but again depth in what? Which emotions? Why would anyone want to listen to such emotions? So the emotional depth score still fails.

Beatles win 2/1

Conceptual/Intellectual Depth: While it's not a concept album, Pepper does have something of a concept album feel to it. In the classical era, it could have been considered a song cycle, but now with great variety, but still presenting a unified whole. Gotta' give credit for that accomplishment. VU&N can make no such claims. There was no intellect to begin with, so it naturally follows that there is no intellectual depth.

Beatles win 4/1

Final tally:
Pepper wins 22 - 8.

And as they say after a lot of blowout sports games, "It wasn't even as close as the score would indicate."

[Romanelli]

[TrekkiELO]

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
_________________
Rick Vendl II

One day you're a hero. Next day you're a clown. There's nothing that is in between. Now you're a 21st Century Man.

[craola]

i've listened to both of these half a dozen times and never particularly connected with either, though i can say i like aspects of velvet undergrounds quite a bit, at least on certain tracks, but i can't help but feel i'm missing something everyone else is getting giddy on. it's a solid album though and easily steals my vote here.
_________________
follow me on the bandcamp.

[RoundTheBend]

This was an ok idea. I suppose I just dropped it - the concept of having standardized criteria to evaluate art is common in "art" competitions, I'm open to changing them. Anyway, I'm also ok if the thread died. I suppose I'd be moving on to Sgt. Pepper vs Pet Sounds or something if people were interesting. Death match and all or something. Meaning the top rated album goes against the next and then almost like Game of Thrones it gets kicked off the thrown. Or something. Fun concept, but I think for it to be interesting lots of people would have to play.