1940s Decade Charts - Suggestions - Forums : Best Ever Albums

Hayden

Location: CDMX

Thanks to Olli/Am for dealing with that Charlie Parker album. I wanted to flag it but couldn't find proof of when it was released.

StefanR10
Music Genius

Gender: Male
Age: 29
Location: Deutschland

I think that is a good idea to make 1940s decade chart, but the problem is that in the decade 30s and 40s are not so much albums. I look what is goin on. I know a few albums from 40s but thats all. Ok great idea.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

PurpleHazel wrote:

RoundTheBend wrote:

In some ways the word album makes a lot of sense to these pre-LP "albums" because they physically were an "album" of 78s. I lucked out and was able to find Glenn Miller's famous "comp" (which back then I don't know what it was called... on the cover it's called an album). Anyway, back to the concept of album - it's like an old fashioned photo album these albums, with multiple pages of 78s often. It's a really fun find.

I'm actually glad we are including these as such because in the end it's more about music. But I have always respected the limitations of this site. It's like that film, the 5 obstructions - sometimes it's the limitations of art that are more powerful than the ability to portray everything perfectly - uncanny valley and all.

Hey, I'm a jazz fan. Practically every innovation in jazz other than free jazz, modal jazz and electric jazz occurred before 1950. All the best Charlie Parker records were originally 10" (not counting live albums and bootlegs). If one 10-inch record is allowed, all 10" and 78s should be allowed. But there's a reason why pre-1955 records are sorely unrepresented and I was explaining why. Some people don't put comps in their charts because they don't consider them albums (I have a few in my overall chart). But practically all pre-1954 non-classical and non-musical soundtrack albums are either under 31 minutes or comps (the latter at least on a technicality). Also, on a site that has "album" in the name, I think the history of records in the first half of the 20th century isn't as well-known as it probably should be (actually there's not a huge amount of information on 78s and 10"s on the internet overall).

In the end it should absolutely be about the music. Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Count Basie and early Billie Holiday are criminally underappreciated on BEA, the biggest reason being that the majority of the records are pre-1950 (or maybe Scaruffi...).

Those 78" photo album-type album sets are really cool. Only seen them a couple of times.

Quote:

But I have always respected the limitations of this site. It's like that film, the 5 obstructions - sometimes it's the limitations of art that are more powerful than the ability to portray everything perfectly - uncanny valley and all.

This is an intriguing, expressive way of looking at it.

Yeah I was agreeing with - talking parallel to you (I thought at least :lol: ). I'm sorry for not making that clear.

And yeah - I think Jazz and Classical really make great cases for early albums for sure. It's possibly a rumor, but I hear the reason for the LP's length was the wish to fit all of Beethoven's 9th on a single disc. I think it's a rumor because I heard the same logic was used for the CD too.

That was a thought I had - the slippery slope of the world once you realize it's not about 5th grade facts anymore. The LP was invented on this date, therefore the concept of album didn't exist before then. I don't know... the theory of New Historicism would totally argue against that logic and say it was a web of influences, including stuff like Glenn Miller's cover stating it is an album. They'd point to these pre-LP albums as albums and say the concept actually was a round 20 years before in various forms.

But yeah - one thing I've always respected about AlbumMaster was when classical music or singles or whatever was brought up, he held his guns on it being an albums site. And I love that about this site - even with the limitation (especially because of the limitation?).

But I'm in no way saying his still not doing that with the inclusion of pre-1948 albums. I think it's great (as it seems we all agree in our [my... :lol:] peculiar way). An LP does not equate to an album (in my opinion at least).

Funny thing - Kid A was released on 10", but has the grooves of a regular LP... they just wanted it to be different I guess (still 33 1/3, instead of 78). If it's two discs now, is it a comp... haha - totally joking. That's one thing I dislike about these re-releases with 2 "LPs" actually being a single album. Something about fidelity above my pay grade.

Jameth

The term “album” as it’s applied to 10 and 12 inch LPs and CDs is really just a holdover from the 78 era. I don’t look at those 78 rpm albums as compilations anymore than I do a lot of LPs from the 50s and 60s, which were just tracks assembled (compiled) from various sessions spread across months or years. They’re albums, even if they weren’t the result of a focused studio project.

The distinction is pretty arbitrary, anyway. Mississippi John Hurt recorded at least 19 sides for OKeh in 1928. But, since no one at OKeh saw fit to gather up his 78s shortly after they were recorded and bind them together as a collection to be sold at one price, any comprehensive release of those recordings is now considered to be a compilation.

Maybe there’s some debate to be had about the value of a release’s perceived format versus the value of a given recording session, I don’t know. I’m just glad BEA doesn’t govern compilations as separate but unequal, like RYM does.
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StefanR10
Music Genius

Gender: Male
Age: 29
Location: Deutschland

The album era was found in the 50s and now we see the dead of the album era. It is bad that no one day wanna buy a album on CD or Vinyl. Sad

The great package you get i amazing. That is for me a standout for music. So i like the old albums were the creative aspect was enormous. For the 40s i can say that in this time was not so big with music I think The Beatles changed a lot of the making of albums and before them there were only a few artists who make such great albums with amazing covers.

mickilennial
The Most Trusted Name in News

Gender: Female
Age: 35
Location: Detroit

streaming isn't killing the album format, its strengthening it

vinyl reissues are making buckets, etc.

PurpleHazel

Jameth wrote:

The term “album” as it’s applied to 10 and 12 inch LPs and CDs is really just a holdover from the 78 era. I don’t look at those 78 rpm albums as compilations anymore than I do a lot of LPs from the 50s and 60s, which were just tracks assembled (compiled) from various sessions spread across months or years. They’re albums, even if they weren’t the result of a focused studio project.

The distinction is pretty arbitrary, anyway. Mississippi John Hurt recorded at least 19 sides for OKeh in 1928. But, since no one at OKeh saw fit to gather up his 78s shortly after they were recorded and bind them together as a collection to be sold at one price, any comprehensive release of those recordings is now considered to be a compilation.

Maybe there’s some debate to be had about the value of a release’s perceived format versus the value of a given recording session, I don’t know. I’m just glad BEA doesn’t govern compilations as separate but unequal, like RYM does.

When the word "album" is used in a non-generic way since the 60s, it usually means album as an art form, something more than just a collection of songs. Obviously this meaning stems from Sgt. Pepper, Pet Sounds etc. and has been in decline since the rise of mp3 and streaming (though the popularity of vinyl suggests a smaller counter-trend). When this site included the word "album" in its name, it was to distinguish itself from other music sites by embracing the concept of the album as an art form unto itself.

That being said, I agree with a lot of what you said. That use of the word "album" is often a subjective mental construct. Some albums are conceived to be an organic whole, some aren't. Some aren't but are perceived to be, some make a perfunctory pass at trying to be and might not be perceived as such.

I was mainly pointing out that 78s that aren't multiple-record sets and some 10-inch LPs are too short to be considered albums by the rules of this site, but I wasn't necessarily saying they weren't albums by every standard.

Even after James Brown's Live at the Apollo Vol. 1, What's Going on and Stevie Wonder's 70s albums, many R&B albums from the 60s onward were still following the singles plus filler formula, even if occasionally the filler was good enough to make those records good or even great albums, so judging them by the more rockist standards does often disadvantage R&B.

I'm glad that compilations aren't treated differently too. I'm even more glad that live albums aren't treated differently. Treating them differently discriminates against jazz. There are free jazz artists whose most famous or most highly acclaimed albums are live.

Last edited by PurpleHazel on 06/19/2020 13:37; edited 3 times in total

PurpleHazel

StefanR10 wrote:

i can say that in this time was not so big with music I think The Beatles changed a lot of the making of albums and before them there were only a few artists who make such great albums with amazing covers.

It's true that before the Beatles, the record companies usually made the decisions about the artwork/packaging.

I know Ornette Coleman chose the Jackson Pollack painting on the cover and inside the gatefold of this 1961 album:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Free Jazz by Ornette Coleman Double Quartet

albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

Gowi wrote:

streaming isn't killing the album format, its strengthening it

Agree, and it's blurring the boundaries. On this thread, we can see the discussion of how the format has changed over the years, greatly influenced by the available technology at the time. BEA's task is to always try and accommodate wider changes to the album format, which I think is also relevant to these 1940s (& earlier) albums.

Hayden

Location: CDMX

Gowi wrote:

streaming isn't killing the album format, its strengthening it

I'm very thankful to say I agree. I think the album format has been far stronger the past 3-4 years than it was during the 00s. I'm not hearing a lot of 'albums are dead' anymore, and people seem to be excited for full-length releases.