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NewsFromHome

Spyglass wrote:

Do laugh if you want. I don't expect everyone to want a personal relationship with God.

Shitposting aside, it is a very Lutheran take.

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

NewsFromHome wrote:

Shitposting aside, it is a very Lutheran take.

Personally, I don't care what they call it. But in most things in life I look for a more personal reason behind things. So I figured, why wouldn't the creator of all life be a very persomal kind of guy? I have trouble following orders when I don't know the reasoning behind them. I have to dig deeper than, "Just do it. It's some churches that tell you to just do it, but that's still people speaking. Not God.
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pctrooper

Gender: Male
Age: 26

Spyglass wrote:

Do laugh if you want. I don't expect everyone to want a personal relationship with God.

I don't like it when people resort to name calling either, but if you don't mind me asking what do you mean when you talk about a personal relationship? Is it a feeling you get when praying or reading a holy text? Do you have an actual dialogue with God? Or do you see events taking place in life and interpret them as part of a larger narrative involving God's plans for you? I think the reason some people mock when they hear talk about a personal relationship is because it just seems more likely that it's actually a one way relationship taking place in the believer's mind, and even though I tend to lean that way as well I try my best to retain a sense of humility. I don't have your perspective and experience so you very well might have a deeper knowledge I don't know about. For me I used to believe I had a relationship with God but it kind of frustrated me that at the end of the day it seemed it all came down to me to determine or interpret what God was actually doing in my life, so that's why eventually it didn't seem like a personal relationship to me anymore.

Sorry about the little rant, but I would just like to hear more about what the personal relationship actually is, because I think it's obviously not the kind of relationships we talk about having with other human beings (though perhaps it may be analogous in some ways).

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

The basis of a positive relationship is listening to what a person has to say. The funny thing about the Bible is that its cryptic. Jesus himself has said that he preaches in ways that sinners wouldn't understand. This means that the ones who have a real connection with God have a better chance of understanding Him because those are the kind of people who would read the Bible to actually learn about God. You could hear talk from the churches, but that's still men talking. Reading the Bible is about seeing what God has to say, and putting your heart in it means you're willing to constantly improve upon your interpretation. In a personal relationship with God, you believe and you have more hope that you will become a good person and know the answers you need to get by, because someone is helping you and comforting you through tough times. This is why God is called the Father.

Now there's no sense in saying that reading the Bible is the only way to be a good person. That's a fanatical statement. But the Bible is a good way to learn a few things like any self-help book. But on the personal basis, that's a different story. Everyone has their own philosophies, and there are levels of right and wrong in each one. We're all human, so none of us will ever be perfect, but there's no reason we shouldn't try to be as good as possible.

This ties into a relationship with God when you want to really find out who he is and how he operates. When reading the Bible without the connection, you can take anything from it. But a personal relationship with God strengthens the ability to see the positives, and lets you know that you have something to hope for. And if things don't go your way, at least someone's helping you to become a better person along the way, and who knows how many people you've helped on this path?

But this all only applies to whether or not you believe.
_________________
Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

pctrooper

Gender: Male
Age: 26

Spyglass wrote:

The basis of a positive relationship is listening to what a person has to say. The funny thing about the Bible is that its cryptic. Jesus himself has said that he preaches in ways that sinners wouldn't understand. This means that the ones who have a real connection with God have a better chance of understanding Him because those are the kind of people who would read the Bible to actually learn about God. You could hear talk from the churches, but that's still men talking. Reading the Bible is about seeing what God has to say, and putting your heart in it means you're willing to constantly improve upon your interpretation. In a personal relationship with God, you believe and you have more hope that you will become a good person and know the answers you need to get by, because someone is helping you and comforting you through tough times. This is why God is called the Father.

Now there's no sense in saying that reading the Bible is the only way to be a good person. That's a fanatical statement. But the Bible is a good way to learn a few things like any self-help book. But on the personal basis, that's a different story. Everyone has their own philosophies, and there are levels of right and wrong in each one. We're all human, so none of us will ever be perfect, but there's no reason we shouldn't try to be as good as possible.

This ties into a relationship with God when you want to really find out who he is and how he operates. When reading the Bible without the connection, you can take anything from it. But a personal relationship with God strengthens the ability to see the positives, and lets you know that you have something to hope for. And if things don't go your way, at least someone's helping you to become a better person along the way, and who knows how many people you've helped on this path?

But this all only applies to whether or not you believe.

I think your last sentence really says it all. I grew up in an evangelical background, so to me, comparing the Bible to other self-help books would almost be kind of blasphemous. Or I guess I would have said something like any other self help book or text getting something right is reflecting God's truths, but is just a pale imitation, so you would always have to go to the Bible as the ultimate source. i also wonder what your take is on some of the New Testament epistles which seem to stress the importance of assembling in church, such as Hebrews 10:24-25 "And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. (ESV)". In John's gospel Jesus was referred to as the bridegroom, and Paul would often refer to the body of believers as the bride of Christ in his epistles, stressing the importance for meeting together. There are even specific rules for who can be a deacon, what roles the church should carry out, etc. I understand that there are many different churches with man-made theologies and doctrines, but to me it seems that the New testament certainly stresses the importance of the communal aspect of faith.

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

There's definitely a communal aspect, yes. But most of the churches I've been to have been more focused on repeating the face value interpretation of the Bible. I could be wrong about this, but I believe the communal aspect should be a proper discussion on how to approach the Bible.
_________________
Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

pctrooper

Gender: Male
Age: 26

Yeah I can see that. I used to really enjoy going to Bible study with some of my friends. Sort of like an unorganized thing where we could talk specifically about the Bible and how it applied to life. i think if someone has a religious belief they are secure in and it helps them to be a better person then that's great. Right now I feel a lot better not really knowing what to believe, but trying to learn from different perspectives and figure out what sort of things I value. I'm a pretty individualistic person myself, so even when I believed strongly I used to feel a little uncomfortable in church or other organized religious functions.

BARDAMU

Spyglass wrote:

But in most things in life I look for a more personal reason behind things. So I figured, why wouldn't the creator of all life be a very persomal kind of guy?

I take it back. This is, more than anything, an American take.

PanheadWarrior
Best Ever Musical Taste

Gender: Male

God to me, is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the Universe. To me, every intelligent design HAS to have a more intelligent DESIGNER. For example, with all the complexities of the human body, there's no way it all happened by chance. A Van Gogh painting doesn't happen by accident, a Radiohead album doesn't happen by accident, and a human being is not created by accident. It takes WAY more faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is a God. Psalm 19:1 says, "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands."
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

PanheadWarrior wrote:

It takes WAY more faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is a God.

Interesting. It requires no faith whatsoever to be agnostic though.
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