How to approach Marx's ideas

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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash



Age: 26
Location: Massachusetts
United States

  • #31
  • Posted: 09/14/2020 23:55
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BARDAMU wrote:
My understanding was that the Russian "troll farms" were largely trying to take advantage of already-extant fissures in American society by signal-boosting populist candidates on both sides (Trump AND Sanders), as well as Black Lives Matter and reactionary gun groups. Knowing that Russia "wanted" a divisive Bernie campaign didn't stop me from going south of the boarder to work on the Bernie campaign myself (Canadian interference, if you will -- call it "Canadagate").

The degree to which Russiagate is manipulated by liberals is frankly worse than Russiagate itself, and has a far more odious effect on democracy. Every last bad thing the Democrats have ever done is considered "Russian propaganda," and they reinforce as much nightly on every news network. A woman coming forward to accuse Biden of sexual assault has been dubbed "Russian interference," ffs. As far as I'm concerned, it's more constructive to throw out the whole concern than entertain it for a second and let these ghouls run with it.


The way in which they were inflaming division is relevant. It was largely by attempts (some fairly successful) at large-scale disinformation, which is corrosive to a democratic society regardless of whom it is in service of. People forget because of how thoroughly it's been co-opted by Trump, but "fake news" originally became a popular phrase in reference to these disinformation campaigns. One of their aims was division, but I don't think we know for sure whether the objective of the pro-Sanders fake news was for Sanders to become the nominee, or for Clinton to become the nominee of a divided and weakened party. I think it's apparent that Russia's oligarchic, hard-right policy preferences only meaningfully aligned with Trump, and they did significantly more to boost his campaign.

If you think a political party putting a political spin on the current event that is Russian disinformation campaigns (like they do on every current event) is worse for democracy than the existence of the disinformation campaign itself, your priorities are misplaced. Nightly on every news network? Cable news sucks but lol no. And 'every last thing' is egregious hyperbole - what are other examples of Democrats blaming a bad thing on Russian propaganda? Your conclusion, advocating dismissing the reality of Russian interference because it's politically inconvenient for you, is breathtakingly bad-faith.

Politically, I care most about defeating the far-right, then the plain old right, then the centrists. What about you?
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Gowi
Idiot Repellent


Gender: Female
Age: 31
Location: Detroit
Poland

  • #32
  • Posted: 09/15/2020 09:15
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If you criticized the democratic party they often on social media and otherwise deferred to you as a "russian asset" even if the claim was easily disproven or discredited. With the combination of other dubious tactics (voter suppression, removing the green party off the ballot in several states, etc) the conversation on "who is less bad" feels awkward and sketchy to me.
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash



Age: 26
Location: Massachusetts
United States

  • #33
  • Posted: 09/15/2020 21:57
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Gowi wrote:
If you criticized the democratic party they often on social media and otherwise deferred to you as a "russian asset" even if the claim was easily disproven or discredited. With the combination of other dubious tactics (voter suppression, removing the green party off the ballot in several states, etc) the conversation on "who is less bad" feels awkward and sketchy to me.


To be clear, I'm asking BARDAMU about elected officials and other institutional party figures, not random people on social media who happen to be registered Democrats. And I'm no fan of Democratic Party leadership, but the party is clearly less dangerous than the contemporary Republican Party on voter suppression and all other issues relating to the preservation of democracy.

I do feel that far too much energy on both sides goes into leftist vs. liberal fights when fascism is on the cusp of consolidating power. I think one lesson of history is that a temporary left-liberal alliance is necessary in these situations.
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