BYHH GW3: Group C - 1993 vs. 1999 - Games - Forums : Best Ever Albums

kokkinos

My ranking for the singles:
1st - Pharoahe Monch - Simon Says
For me, this is the best single of the third round - just as a reminder, this round featured C.R.E.A.M. as well - and at the very least top 5 - most likely top 3 - of the whole tournament so far.
2nd - Intelligent Hoodlum - Grand Groove
In most matchups this would have a real shot at first spot.
3rd - UGK - Pocket Full of Stones
A fantastic combination of old school and forward thinking.
4th: Lil' Troy - Wanna Be a Baller (ft. Fat Pat, Yungstar, Lil' Will, Big T and HAWK)
It's ok, but the competition is relentless.
So, it may hurt my qualifying chances, but 1999 is the clear winner. Case closed.

Repo
BeA Sunflower

Location: Forest Park

kokkinos wrote:

Intended to continue with Operation: Doomsday,but I'm not ready to comment on MF DOOM -maybe I will skip it altogether, I don't need to re-listen to it to make up my mind, I already know how I'm feeling towards it, it's been one of my go-to albums for ages -, so I'm gonna reverse the order and continue with Silkk the Shocker - Made Man. Skinny's reviews could convince you for a lot of things, but in this case I really didn't need any persuasion. His rapping is as eccentric as it gets. I can understand some of the criticisms, but I don't know, I somehow have the impression that were he to emerge on the scene today, he wouldn't be as mocked, the modern direction of rapping seems to suit him slightly more. The "counterclockwise flow" analogy is a creative way to put it, though slightly inaccurate, as it implies there's a method to his madness, which I failed to discern, the man is simply a lunatic, he is all over the place. When a rapper dominates an album like that, it's usually a bad idea to fill it with guests. Here this wasn't a problem to the slightest, quite the contrary actually, they give you some valuable room to breathe before the next punch of the man hits even harder. The production is also questionable and bound to raise a debate, it seems to be going everywhere or nowhere depending on your perception. I would argue in favor of the former (the variety is incredible, it grabs you from the first second and never lets you loose, it's impossible to stop before it's over) and as a result thorougly enjoyed it - but I'm pretty sure I am in the minority here. Also, it's 70 minutes long and it still feels desperately short, give me some more.
To sum it up, I would shockingly rank this as about equal to Illegal Business? and way ahead of 93 'til Infinity.
Next one is gonna be either the singles or most likely a short reference to MF DOOM and a quick summation of where the two teams are standing so far.

Interesting take! But then again, '93 To Infinity is easily my favorite of these 4 so perhaps we just have different tastes. Regardless will give Made Man another spin at some point this week.

Skinny
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kokkinos wrote:

Intended to continue with Operation: Doomsday,but I'm not ready to comment on MF DOOM -maybe I will skip it altogether, I don't need to re-listen to it to make up my mind, I already know how I'm feeling towards it, it's been one of my go-to albums for ages -, so I'm gonna reverse the order and continue with Silkk the Shocker - Made Man. Skinny's reviews could convince you for a lot of things, but in this case I really didn't need any persuasion. His rapping is as eccentric as it gets. I can understand some of the criticisms, but I don't know, I somehow have the impression that were he to emerge on the scene today, he wouldn't be as mocked, the modern direction of rapping seems to suit him slightly more. The "counterclockwise flow" analogy is a creative way to put it, though slightly inaccurate, as it implies there's a method to his madness, which I failed to discern, the man is simply a lunatic, he is all over the place. When a rapper dominates an album like that, it's usually a bad idea to fill it with guests. Here this wasn't a problem to the slightest, quite the contrary actually, they give you some valuable room to breathe before the next punch of the man hits even harder. The production is also questionable and bound to raise a debate, it seems to be going everywhere or nowhere depending on your perception. I would argue in favor of the former (the variety is incredible, it grabs you from the first second and never lets you loose, it's impossible to stop before it's over) and as a result thorougly enjoyed it - but I'm pretty sure I am in the minority here. Also, it's 70 minutes long and it still feels desperately short, give me some more.
To sum it up, I would shockingly rank this as about equal to Illegal Business? and way ahead of 93 'til Infinity.
Next one is gonna be either the singles or most likely a short reference to MF DOOM and a quick summation of where the two teams are standing so far.

Honestly, I'm super happy you enjoyed it. I thought it was a pretty risky nomination, but I've always had good faith in my own taste. Wink

You make a couple of very salient points here: a) that Silkk is probably more palatable to modern audience, which I imagine is due to the diversification of rap flows over the years and our growing familiarity with different styles; b) that even at 70+ minutes, this is a very breezy listen which doesn't outstay its welcome, which is rare of any album of this length but might be due to the manic production choices on offer and sheer unpredictability of what Silkk is going to do next.

Anyway, I hope your positive take on the record is shared by others, because it's an album I thoroughly enjoy, and one that I feel is in need of renewed appreciation. (To be honest, I think No Limit gets an unfairly bad rep as a whole, but this one in particular is a brilliant record that for some reason is often viewed as one of the label's worst.)

Again, I'm just glad you enjoyed it. This tournament is all about people finding and liking things that they might not have listened to otherwise.
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kokkinos

The funny thing is I was kinda disappointed that my two favorite 1999 albums (Nigga Please/Internal Affairs - I mean, I absolutely adore Operation: Doomsday, but those two are really something else) were sidestepped in favor of the corresponding singles (which of course are huge as well), but Slikk more than made up for it (not to mention the dreadful scenario of nominating The Slim Shady LP, which I'm grateful for having avoided so far).

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Super tough matchup... Both teams have super high high's and both teams have a tinge of meh for me.

1993 (captain: cestuneblague) (9.75)
Souls of Mischief - 93 'til Infinity (2.75)
Mac Mall - Illegal Business? (2.25)
Intelligent Hoodlum - Grand Groove (2.75)
UGK - Pocket Full of Stones (2)

vs.

1999 (captain: Skinny) (10.25
MF DOOM - Operation: Doomsday (2.75)
Silkk the Shocker - Made Man (2.25)
Pharoahe Monch - Simon Says (2.25)
Lil' Troy - Wanna Be a Baller (ft. Fat Pat, Yungstar, Lil' Will, Big T and HAWK) (3)

babyBlueSedan
Used to be sort of blind, now can sort of see

Gender: Male

Thoughts on the albums:

- I've never loved '93 to Infinity as much as most people. I think it's a solid album, but I always find myself wishing the beats were a bit jazzier. And while I really like the playfulness of the rapping, in particular how the MCs are pretty loose with their flows and never seem to try the same thing twice, I find myself not caring at all about what they're rapping about. The title track has always been the highlight for me but on this last listen even that didn't really hit.

- That Mac Mall album is a good find. Took me a little bit to get into because the production feels really dense, but the rapping is so smooth and the stories are great. Found myself wanting a bit more variety but the sound he sticks to is so solid that I can't really fault him for it.

- Operation Doomsday might have been my favorite DOOM album when I first got into him, and it still has what might be my favorite song from him in "Doomsday." It's solid throughout, and while I sometimes find the skits in his stuff break up the flow of his albums they really make the albums feel complete so I can't really fault them.

- I was excited to listen to Made Man after reading Skinny's description, and I have to say it delivered on my expectations. Does that mean I enjoyed it? I'm conflicted. It's definitely an interesting album to listen to, and I agree with others that if a rapper came onto the scene with this flow today people might not even bat an eye. At the same time he doesn't exactly sound like he has control of the wildness, and I did find the moments where he suddenly speeds up to superhuman speeds a bit hard to follow. "This is 4 M" is probably the craziest song here, where you just have no idea what is going on in the beginning. Elsewhere he has more control over what he's doing and it does create some good songs. The beats are nice. I could do without the slower tracks, especially on an album this long (I'm trying not to give the "too long" criticism too much this round, as a lot of these albums are over 70 minutes. And I don't think being 70 minutes is inherently bad, I just have a short attention span these days. This did have a fair bit of variety so at least it showed Silkk trying a lot of things).

If I had to rank the albums it would probably go:

1. DOOM
2. Mac Mall
3. Souls of Mischief
4. Silkk the Shocker

As for the singles, I enjoyed "Grand Groove." The UGK song felt a bit long though that's probably just my personal ambivalence to this type of slow, menacing track. "Simon Says" has actually always been one of my least favorite cuts from Internal Affairs, but I can't deny that the rapping is impressive. "Wanna Be a Baller" was easily my favorite single, just the perfect example of what a posse cut should be. Great hook, great beat, great verses.

Leaning 1999 based largely on DOOM and Lil' Troy but also my pleasant surprise at liking Silkk the Shocker as much as I did given its reputation.
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cestuneblague
Edgy to the Choir

Location: MA/FL

Skinny was inches away from getting Shaq this round, wonder if that'd have helped Think

I donno, I think I wanted to contrast what was sure to be a bigger, start-a-ruckus Y2k sound with a bit of a back-to-basics approach, which had me reaching back to the East Bay scene since (despite all the great stuff coming from New York, G-Funk blowing up in SoCal and the different southern capitols starting to make their mark) really was the hidden star of '93. Including both the pinnacle of the Hieroglyphics sound, it's turn towards a harder but still pretty nimble and easy-flowing sound moving beyond it's early George Clinton worship, with an album that's surprisingly underrated or perhaps lesser known than it's main big single, but overall really captures a certain point-in-time in west coast hip hop. As does Illegal Business, perhaps the masterpiece production of the also criminally underrated Khayree, truly a masterpiece of the dense, continiously expanding slow-simmer of west coast gangster hip hop, synchronizing pretty will with the cocky but surprisingly loose and professional Mac Mall, who manages to still make it his album and never runs out of steam even at 74 minutes. Lots of Khayree's best work was in 93 too, worth checking out Down and Dirty and Mac Dre as well.

Again not using a certain obscure Staten Island group's rather humble 93 debut may have felt like a bit of a disrepct going up agains the Nezz, but I knew not using the Kingz of the Underground woud be like shitting in his kid's lunchbox, so that was planned pretty much from the minute I saw the group table. I think he put the strength of the song's best, but I certainly can't... not love a song that manages to squeeze in the phrase "Monkey Nuts" halfway through. Texas classic. And since I thought I might be up against "Da Art of Storytellin'" (again where I was expecting slick rick Wink

), I decided against pairing it with the most obvious logical connector, Player's Ball, and had to fish for the right track. I gravitated toward many quirkier or more bizzare choices at first, and almost just said screw it and used the Shaq attack this round (mainly so I could make up a list of things E.T could possibly stand for) but obviously nothing can compare to his cross-platform magnum opus that was Shaq Fu in 94, so decided to dig even deeper. And obviously wanting a back to basics approach I decided to go with Intelligent Hoodlum, an unsung master of that very old-school pure, straight-to-the-point storytelling rap. I think since he was one of the original MC's from the Queensbridge scene that of course spawned Nas (as well as "The Infamous"), I think he's always been a bit overshadowed despite a pretty long and respected career, and again his very no-frills lyrical approach is by design not somthing that's gonna immediately grab everbody's attention, but his work both as Intelligent Hoodlum and later Tragedy Khadafi is defintely worth getting into, and this is certainly has one of the most immediate, wide-screen feel of all his individual tracks (different from the original on the album, though, that one is more downbeat and a bit lyrically conjucted, but equally meomrable in it's owm right and perhaps the second-best use of an Isaac Hayes sample in early 90s hip hop)

Still I love a lot of Skinny's team, of course I Wanna Be A Baller may be my favorite single yet in the tournament. Had never heard of Slikk before this round, definitely an album that... well, I really don't know what to say about it, which may be the point? Everything else is good too, let the brawl begin

LedZep

93 'til Infinity is one of the best hip hop albums ever imo. Not even DOOM's fantastic debut can neutralise it. No need to talk about these two though, both are classics (although maybe 2nd tier classics as far as popularity is concerned). Grand Groove is absolutely fantastic, one of the best singles I've not heard before this tourney. As is Simon Says, although I know Pharoahe Monch's early work pretty well. Honestly I was expecting Internal Affairs in its full form as it's one of the best 1999 albums, but Simon Says is not a bad choice, to say the least.

"If you tired of the same old everyday, you will agree I'm
The most obligated, hard and R-rated
Slated to be the best, I must confess, the star made it
Some might even say this song is sexist-es
'Cause I asked the girls to rub on their breast-eses
Whether you're riding the train or a Lexus-es
This is for either or Rollies or Timex-eses
Wicked like Exorcist, this is the joint
You holding up the wall then you missing the point"

Wanna Be a Baller features some of the smoothest rapping and the best chemistry between the MCs in this whole round. Pocket Full of Stones is a classic, such a sick track. Possibly the best highlight on their debut. That's why Mac Mall vs. Silkk the Shocker was the most important duel of this round of votes. And while Silkk is certainly not the worst rapper ever, he's not very good either. However his rapping is not the deciding factor for me, it's the mediocre and sometimes even bad songwriting on Made Man that sunk the team for me. Some of the songs sound like algorithm produced R&B/Rap half-ballads, and if a rapper as interesting as Silkk couldn't make them interesting, you know it's just a whack song. Mac Mall on the other hand, while not mindblowing, is a more than competent rapper. The stories on Illegal Business were incredible, the production slick and I'm sure it'll grow on me even more with repeated listens. Maybe the only complaint is the lack of highlights, although Cold Sweat was great. It's a vote for 1993.
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Finally updated the overall chart

2020s
90s

baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

93 'Til Infinity: 2/5
Illegal Business?: 3.5/5
Grand Groove: 4/5
Pocket Full Of Stones: 3.5/5

1993 Total: 13/20

Operation: Doomsday: 4/5
Made Man: 2.5/5
Simon Says: 3/5
Wanna Be A Baller: 4.5/5

1999 Total: 14/20

Wanna Be A Baller puts the 99 team on its back. Stone-cold classic.
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Skinny
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1999 wins, 7-5.
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2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.