Top 10+ Music, Movies, and Visual Art of the Week (2023)

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AfterHours



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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #1121
  • Posted: 02/05/2023 00:51
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homelessking wrote:
You gave it 6.5 yeah. One of the more visceral Scaruffi 8s you don't seem to care for much along with You Can't Pray a Lie


Scaruffi usually wins in the end 😉 not always of course, but about 80% of the time (probably closer to 85% the further back you go from the 2000s or so), so don't count those out! By reminding me of them and making me wonder if I messed those ratings up, you've probably inspired me to revisit them soon Smile
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AfterHours



Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #1122
  • Posted: 02/05/2023 05:34
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homelessking wrote:
You gave it 6.5 yeah. One of the more visceral Scaruffi 8s you don't seem to care for much along with You Can't Pray a Lie


Scratch anything I just said about Unsane (re: mixture of boredom and sustained intensity). I was confusing them with another band and album and may have even done so when I rated them at 6.5.

I used to have Unsane's s/t album at 7.9/10 and even as high as 8.2/10 and probably mistakenly dropped it when I had actually listened to a different album (but not Unsane's s/t) and that was supposed to be 6.5 instead of Scaruffi's 8. Unfortunately I don't remember what that was, but in any case I am pretty sure Unsane was incorrectly dropped off my "Greatest" list. I just revisited the first few tracks of it and it's obviously above 6.5 and probably should still be on that list though I'll revisit all of it first just to make sure beforehand, and to re-slot it into whatever rating and ranking I think it deserves so it's rated/ranked up-to-the-present.
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theredkrayola





  • #1123
  • Posted: 02/05/2023 16:38
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What are the punk albums you consider wilder and more chaotic than Double Nickels? And why are they not masterpieces?

The only punk albums I can think of that match Double Nickels in terms of chaos are Flowers of Romance, Rudimentary Peni's Cacophony, Red Medicine... all of which are masterpieces or near-masterpieces
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AfterHours



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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #1124
  • Posted: 02/06/2023 19:39
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EXPLANATION: WHAT IS THIS LOG??? Go here: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...094#571094

For my criteria page, go here: http://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?t=15503

To visit my Main lists, go here:
Greatest Classical Music Works: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15098
Greatest Albums (Rock & Jazz): https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15276
Greatest Films: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15558
Greatest Paintings: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15560
Greatest Works of Art: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=16117

Bold = Newly added
Bold + Italics = Was already listed but recently upgraded/downgraded

Top 10+ Music, Movies, and Visual Art of the Week(s): 2-6-2023 - 3-12-2023
In the Aeroplane Over the Sea - Neutral Milk Hotel (1998)
Zen Arcade - Husker Du (1984)
Double Nickels on the Dime - Minutemen (1984)
The Big Heat - Stan Ridgway (1986)
Death Wish 3 - Michael Winner (1985)
Doolittle - Pixies (1989)
The Parallax View - Alan Pakula (1974)
American Psycho - Mary Harron (2000)
The Getaway - Sam Peckinpah (1972)
Dirty Harry - Don Siegel (1971)
Dusk at Cubist Castle - Olivia Tremor Control (1996)
Fevers and Mirrors - Bright Eyes (2000)
Black Sheep Boy - Okkervil River (2005)
Tidal - Fiona Apple (1996)
Bullitt - Peter Yates (1968)
Mission: Impossible - Brian De Palma (1996)
Death Wish - Michael Winner (1974)
Thriller - Michael Jackson (1984)
On Avery Island - Neutral Milk Hotel (1996)
Get Carter - Mike Hodges (1971)
Road to Perdition - Sam Mendes (2002)
The Colour of Spring - Talk Talk (1986)
American Gigolo - Paul Schrader (1980)
The Sunset Tree - Mountain Goats (2005)
Bad - Michael Jackson (1986)
Mr. Tambourine Man - The Byrds (1965)
Rocky - John Avildsen (1976)
First Blood - Ted Kotcheff (1982) (7.0/10)
Bee Thousand - Guided By Voices (1994)
Enter the Dragon - Robert Clouse (1973)
Old No. 1 - Guy Clark (1975)
Surfer Rosa - Pixies (1988)
The Joshua Tree - U2 (1987)
Pontiac - Lyle Lovett (1988)
The Crow - Alex Proyas (1994)
Men in Black - Barry Sonnenfeld (1997)
Westworld - Michael Crichton (1973)
Police Story - Jackie Chan (1985)
Abbey Road - The Beatles (1969)
Time Out - Dave Brubeck (1959)
The Neverending Story - Wolfgang Petersen (1984)

Top 10+ Albums/Movies/Visual Art for the Week(s) - Rated 2.8/10 to 6.7/10
Rocky IV - Sylvester Stallone (1985)
Rush Hour - Brett Ratner (1998)
The Rock - Michael Bay (1996)
Death Wish 2 - Michael Winner (1982)
The Fugitive - Andrew Davis (1993)
The Running Man - Paul Michael Glaser (1987)
Road House - Rowdy Harrington (1989)
Labyrinth - Jim Hensen (1986)
Same Trailer Different Park - Kacey Musgraves (2013)
Odyssey & Oracle - Zombies (1968)
Backdraft - Ron Howard (1991)
Commando - Mark Lester (1985)
Creed - Ryan Coogler (2015)
Lifted or The Story Is in the Soil, Keep Your Ear to the Ground - Bright Eyes (2002)
Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd (1973)
The Glow Pt. 2 - Microphones (2001)
Ip Man - Wilson Yip (2008)
Rocky II - Sylvester Stallone (1979)
Ip Man 3 - Wilson Yip (2015)
Ip Man 2 - Wilson Yip (2010)
Rocky III - Sylvester Stallone (1982)
Rambo: First Blood Part II - George P. Cosmatos (1985)
Rambo III - Peter MacDonald (1988)
Bloodsport - Newt Arnold (1988)

Top 10+ SONGS/TRACKS for the Week(s)

FAMILIAR ROCK/JAZZ ALBUMS - RE-RATED:
In the Aeroplane Over the Sea - Neutral Milk Hotel (1998) 8.8/10 to 8.9/10
Zen Arcade - Husker Du (1984) 8.8/10 to 8.9/10
Double Nickels on the Dime - Minutemen (1984) 8.1/10 to 8.4/10; 8.4/10 to 8.2/10
The Big Heat - Stan Ridgway (1986) 7.6/10 to 7.8/10
Doolittle - Pixies (1989) 7.3/10 to 7.6/10
Dusk at Cubist Castle - Olivia Tremor Control (1996) Not Rated to 7.3/10
Fevers and Mirrors - Bright Eyes (2000) 6.9/10 to 7.0/10
Old No. 1 - Guy Clark (1975) 6.9/10 to 7.0/10
The Joshua Tree - U2 (1987) 6.9/10 to 7.0/10
Tidal - Fiona Apple (1996) 6.9/10 to 7.0/10
Mr. Tambourine Man - The Byrds (1965) 6.8/10 to 6.9/10
Thriller - Michael Jackson (1984) 6.8/10 to 6.9/10
The Colour of Spring - Talk Talk (1986) 6.8/10 to 6.9/10
Abbey Road - The Beatles (1969) 6.8/10 to 6.9/10
The Sunset Tree - The Mountain Goats (2004) 6.5/10 to 6.6/10; 6.6/10 to 6.7/10; 6.7/10 to 6.8/10
Lifted or The Story Is in the Soil, Keep Your Ear to the Ground - Bright Eyes (2002) 6.9/10 to 6.7/10

NEWLY LISTENED - ROCK/JAZZ ALBUMS - RATED:
Black Sheep Boy - Okkervil River (2005) 7.0/10

FAMILIAR SONGS/TRACKS/MOVEMENTS - RE-RATED:
Reoccurring Dreams - Husker Du - Zen Arcade - Track #24 (1984) Not Rated to 7.5/10

FAMILIAR FILMS - RE-RATED:
The Parallax View - Alan Pakula (1974) 7.1/10 to 7.2/10
American Psycho - Mary Harron (2000) Not Rated to 7.0/10
Death Wish - Michael Winner (1974) 6.5/10 to 6.9/10
Mission: Impossible - Brian De Palma (1996) 6.5/10 to 6.9/10
The Crow - Alex Proyas (1994) 6.9/10 to 6.8/10
Rocky - John Avildsen (1976) 6.5/10 to 6.8/10
Men in Black - Barry Sonnenfeld (1997) 6.9/10 to 6.8/10
Enter the Dragon - Robert Clouse (1973) Not Rated to 6.8/10
Rocky IV - Sylvester Stallone (1985) Not Rated to 6.7/10
Rush Hour - Brett Ratner (1998) Not Rated to 6.7/10
Titanic - James Cameron (1997) 6.4/10 to 6.6/10
The Rock - Michael Bay (1996) Not Rated to 6.4/10; 6.4/10 to 6.6/10
The Fugitive - Andrew Davis (1993) Not Rated to 6.5/10
The Running Man - Paul Michael Glaser (1987) Not Rated to 6.4/10; 6.4/10 to 6.5/10
Road House - Rowdy Harrington (1989) Not Rated to 6.4/10
Labyrinth - Jim Hensen (1986) Not Rated to 6.4/10
Backdraft - Ron Howard (1991) Not Rated to 6.3/10
Jaws 2 - Jeannot Szwarc (1978) 6.1/10 to 6.3/10
Commando - Mark Lester (1985) Not Rated to 6.0/10 ... It has been at least 25 years since I last saw this ... It's one of those movies that's so "bad" that it's actually good in an ironic way. And it is something of a precursor to the (certainly superior) True Lies in its absurd mixture of (very) violent action and satire/comedy (True Lies, though, has much more thematic material and plot to work with). Here the comedy is far less acknowledged in the film's own universe than True Lies more "knowing" winking, but is nevertheless almost a constant throughout the film. The comedic peak must be in the early scenes when after some ridiculous death scenes of Arnold's old pals, there begins an uproariously funny montage of him and his daughter living an idyllic life in the woods, peaking (comedically) with them feeding a deer (I probably haven't laughed so hard at an action film since I last saw Rocky IV, which climaxes with "epic" montages of Stallone getting his ass kicked by Drago, never a lick of defense [just facing him, getting his head bashed in over and over!] and of course thereafter mounting a come back, to the roars of a Russian crowd and ludicrous montages of Russian and American flags and the protagonists and antagonist's embattled entourages, and so on). Commando's idyllic montage remains so funny at least in part because of how out of place Arnold looks in the scenes with his massive muscle builder frame (including how he is so obviously not Alyssa Milano's dad) and how idiotically happy the scenes are when juxtaposed with what just occurred plus all the deaths that take place thereafter (virtually all at the hands of Arnold). Much ridiculousness follows with extremely implausible action scene after the other. It's never less than amusing but the light comedy and the absurd action is really the only thing holding it together from being among the worst films of the period, because it is otherwise cheaply, crudely and derivitively shot (without a nary of individual directorial stamp on it) and very thin on plot (in other words, what's compelling about the film is skin deep). Arnold has all sorts of glorious one liners following a kill, perhaps culminating with "Let off some steam" (you'll know what I mean when you see it). Beyond this, there is a little bit more, in that the film is a bit of a continuous parody of "testosterone" infusion and "manlineness" (how Arnold's muscles are always accentuated and fawned over by the shots; how there are mini montages of him preparing epic weapons and ways to kill the enemy...), but unfortunately without the budget or cinematic art that could've taken it to a more extraordinary limit (like, say, if peak John Woo would've directed).
Rocky II - Sylvester Stallone (1979) Not Rated to 5.9/10; 5.9/10 to 5.6/10
Rocky III - Sylvester Stallone (1982) Not Rated to 5.1/10
Rambo: First Blood Part II - George P. Cosmatos (1985) Not Rated to 5.0/10
Rambo III - Peter MacDonald (1988) Not Rated to 4.6/10
Bloodsport - Newt Arnold (1988) Not Rated to 3.6/10 ... Basically a rip off of Enter the Dragon, much of the film is unintentionally funny due to terrible acting from pretty much all involved. Some of the fight scenes are inspired and the mix of styles of the martial artists holds some (very mild) interest, but mostly the film is just dull, lacking tension or suspense and funny when it shouldn't be and overly stupid when it actually tries comedy. Van Damme (one of my favorite movie stars as a kid, and this was one of my favorite films of his) can only "act" in the physical, violent scenes and is hard to take seriously outside of those; almost all his lines fall flat. He is an excellent martial artist but even here doesn't approach the visceral thrill that Bruce Lee does and has none of his striking presence and force of personality. Even the more "serious and philosophical" scenes (where Van Damme is meditating, or the training scenes with his master) are (unintentionally) funny because of how stupid the movie has been throughout (failing to build any reason to invest in the characters) and/or due to the stilted dialogue and terrible acting. Ultimately any interest it holds is very mild (at best) due mostly to the mixed martial arts of the fight scenes (and some great moves and choreography) but probably most of all it's the unintentional comedy (though equally as boring as it is fun) which at times gives the film an awkward charm and energy I suppose. But literally none of the drama or tension or suspense lands. It is ridiculous to see this movie on "best martial arts films" lists, obviously pandering to its popularity and how famous it has become due to Van Damme achieving movie stardom. Even for one of the weakest action sub-genres, the film is well below par.

NEWLY WATCHED FILMS - RATED:
Death Wish 3 - Michael Winner (1985) 7.5/10 ... A completely bat-shit crazy, vigilante-action-crime bonanza. Like the first two films, it depicts thugs as cartoonish caricatures (as paranoid, delusional and exaggerated visions) but this time it ups the ante so much that it's often hard to believe what you're watching (the disbelief is enhanced by the fact that the action, despite being ridiculous, is being preached upon and supported by concepts and ideas. It is breathlessly trying to send a delusional political message of cleaning up the streets by goading an insane public into taking mob vigilante justice into their own hands due to incompetent police, lawyers, doctors, etc). An extra layer of ambiguity is added for part 3, well beyond that of 1 and 2, because the comedy and satire is far thicker and far more delusional and we are left questioning whether the ultimate message is a serious one. It is both an insane satire/comedy and a visceral, cathartic action film at the same time (we root for the kills, the more violent the better, while at same time, through the exaggeration and satire, are made well aware of how ridiculous we are for doing so and for joining in and enjoying it ... while at the same time the thugs are so despicable that we "want them dead right this second", or do we? We do! Wait ... do we? Should we?). Like the first film in particular (but much more so this time) it depicts New York as a "jungle", with the streets and alleys given both a stylish and degraded, labyrinthine visual aesthetic, and with the superb camera work providing stylish pointed shots and framing alluding to a constant sense of danger and paranoia (as in, it frames scenes and the thugs as being pointed at by the angle in the shot, as if they are being "eyed" or honed in on in a paranoid way where the point of the shot is catching someone or something in the corner that it suspects or thinks suspicious [often aided by the visual aesthetic/lighting too], or it frames the thugs in low angles so they appear more imposing in the shot... etc). The cartoonish thugs are all like wild animals with utterly no regard for ethics or morals, only acting in crazed, bestial personality traits on their base instincts (like animals in the jungle). Also the editing gives the film a frenetic rhythm with practically no wasted moments before another crime or action or absurd plot development is taking place (whereas the first Death Wish was more methodical). On top of the ridiculous thugs, several neighborhood citizens eventually join in on the action (hilariously, many of them are older people, "squares" or religious people that get in on the action and/or cheer Bronson on in his vigilante efforts, not even second guessing it), and even the cops aid the action in the finale, with the lead cop and Bronson (who has merely overseen Bronson up to that point) lighting up the action in a riotous (completely ludicrous) spin on buddy cop movies. Let's also not forget the completely ridiculous relationship Bronson strikes up during the film, with a hilariously oblivious lawyer and with dialogue between them that must've been hard for the actors to get through without losing their shit (her observations of him highlighting how oblivious she is of him; the fact that she's a lawyer increasing the satire; how easily she falls for him and becomes romantically involved -- including their age difference -- only serving to make Bronson out to be a total badass and the film is very aware of this). Many of the deaths that happen to the thugs are cheered on by the neighborhood citizens in a way that is stating in all caps that this is what the public wants and this is what we need to do to clean up these streets. It is insane and hilarious at the same time and the film is pretty much non-stop, relentless in its comic, crazy violence, situations and characters. Has to be seen to be believed.
Bullitt - Peter Yates (1968) 7.0/10
Get Carter - Mike Hodges (1971) 6.9/10
Road to Perdition - Sam Mendes (2002) 6.9/10
American Gigolo - Paul Schrader (1980) 6.8/10
Westworld - Michael Crichton (1973) 6.8/10
Police Story - Jackie Chan (1985) 6.8/10
Death Wish 2 - Michael Winner (1982) 6.5/10
Creed - Ryan Coogler (2015) 5.8/10
Ip Man - Wilson Yip (2008) 5.2/10; 5.2/10 to 5.4/10 ... It's a film that is at least efficiently paced so that one doesn't have to dwell too long on any scene, or overthink the obvious contrivance of it all. On the other hand, there is a certain conviction to it all that isn't entirely superficial (just very cliche in its presentation), in that the director and lead actor obviously are enamored by the martial arts legends of Ip Man. So there's that. The problem is that it way oversteps the line of "honoring or respecting him" into a slew of historical inaccuracies and blatant myth making. I'm definitely not a martial arts historian but a quick check of the facts reveals as much (completely out of whack time and place, made up battle situations, ignoring his addiction to opium, etc). This wouldn't be such an issue (after all, cinema hardly needs to be about "realism") if it wasn't as dramatically cliche and the whole wasn't as contrived as it is. The whole film (literally every situation and plot point) is a pretext to pit Ip Man in situations where he has to showcase his fighting skills (and this is where 90% of the pathos lies, in the catharsis of Ip Man, between the staggering technique and ferocious violence and his "Zen" disposition; very little of the pathos in the "drama" unfolding is meaningful, all of it a pretext to get to the fights). Fortunately the fights themselves are lively, entertaining, have a sense of thrill and do manage to move a touch beyond the cliche (from Superhero films of the period) of how invincible Ip Man is depicted to be, by being shot and edited and choreographed quite well -- even if stylistically a bit overboard, lessened as well by the mainstream visual schemes -- but the "physics" of them and choreography can be fairly beautiful and somewhat thrilling and even cathartic at points (when Ip Man goes nucelar with his rapid-fire punching and hitting prowess, for instance). These scenes sometimes approach a second rate, more Hollywood version of John Woo (without Woo's hyper-self-awareness and no holds barred immersion in the idiom of such, like with Face/Off), and that's when they're at their best, even if they lack originality and their own sense of authorship beyond the interesting fighting style of Ip Man himself (again, especially when he goes "nuclear"). The setting of the film is also pretty stylish visually but with little individuality (shot like a million other mainstream historical epics; like many, an iteration on the historical sequences of Hollywood epics, like for instance, Godfather 2 -- a peak example of Hollywood that transcended the tropes through flawless historical recreation and careful consideration by DP Willis and the art direction -- but Ip Man has little or none of the nuance or depth of characterizations or detail of production or subtle allusion and beauty in the cinematography). It's effective to some degree but in a very limited, rather superficial way that is more or less immediately forgotten or discarded afterwards. The only parts that might hold up on repeat viewings would be the fight sequences and it is hard to ignore that everything in the film is very contrived to show those, which leaves the parts in between as pretty much a waiting game to get to them (once one knows what happens, once the first-time suspense is lost). The ending, despite a somewhat cathartic martial arts finale against the Big Bad Japanese General (who of course happens to be one of the greatest martial artists in the world, in lo and behold, militarily occupying the same town as Ip Man), is completely ridiculous in how it inspires the whole crowd to take on and overcome the gun wielding Japanese military guards and Ip Man becomes a hero that inspired or symbolizes the defeat of their whole army. Was he even known (at that point) outside of that main province? Again, I'm not a martial arts historian by any means but it seems very much like a ridiculous Hollywood cliche to me to suggest that and I strongly doubt it really happened that way. All that said, fortunately the film is well paced and moves pretty quickly from one point to the next and this salvages it from being boring (at least on first viewing) as we get to what it's really all about: the martial arts scenes and mythologizing the stature and invinicibility of Ip Man through them (discounting a scene where he is arrested with guns, I think he only gets hit twice, maybe three times, the entire film -- by the Big Bad Japanese general -- despite taking on 10 martial artists simultaneously at one point.)
Ip Man 3 - Wilson Yip (2015) 5.0/10
Ip Man 2 - Wilson Yip (2010) 5.0/10

TOP 50 WORKS OF ART OF THE YEAR (2023)
Nostalghia - Andrei Tarkovsky (1983)
Stalker - Andrei Tarkovsky (1979)
Persona - Ingmar Bergman (1966)
Down Colorful Hill - Red House Painters (1992)
Blow-Up - Michelangelo Antonioni (1966)
Werckmeister Harmonies - Bela Tarr (2000)
The Conversation - Francis Ford Coppola (1974)
Alien - Ridley Scott (1979)
Astral Weeks - Van Morrison (1968)
Violin Concertos Nos. 1-4, "The Four Seasons" - Antonio Vivaldi (1723)
In the Aeroplane Over the Sea - Neutral Milk Hotel (1998)
The Days of Wine & Roses - Dream Syndicate (1982)
Memento - Christopher Nolan (2000)
Good - Morphine (1992)
The River - Bruce Springsteen (1980)
Nashville - Robert Altman (1975)
Repeater - Fugazi (1990)
Fire of Love - Gun Club (1981)
Three Colors: Red - Krzysztof Kieslowski (1994)
The Big Heat - Fritz Lang (1953)
Medici Chapel: The Sagrestia Nuova - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1555) [Sculpture and Architecture]
David - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1504) [Sculpture]
The Band - The Band (1969)
The Game - David Fincher (1997)
Point Blank - John Boorman (1967)
Leon: The Professional - Luc Besson (1994)
The Rules of the Game - Jean Renoir (1939)
Yerself is Steam - Mercury Rev (1991)
Geek the Girl - Lisa Germano (1994)
Images and Words - Dream Theater (1992)
Zen Arcade - Husker DU (1984)
Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables - Dead Kennedy's (1980)
The Godfather - Francis Ford Coppola (1972)
Spiderland - Slint (1991)
Dolmen Music - Meredith Monk (1981)
Laurentian Library - Michelangelo Buonarroti (Begun 1525, completed posthumously, 1571; Tribune of Elci rotunda added by Pasquale Poccianti in 1841) [Architecture]
Dummy - Portishead (1994)
Frigid Stars - Codeine (1990)
The Lion and the Cobra - Sinead O'Connor (1987)
Fallingwater - Frank Lloyd Wright (1939) [Architecture]
The Lobster - Yorgos Lanthimos (2015)
The Power of the Dog - Jane Campion (2021)
Moses - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1515) [Sculpture]
Spleen & Ideal - Dead Can Dance (1985)
So Tonight That I Might See - Mazzy Star (1993)
Ugetsu - Kenji Mizoguchi (1953)
Andrei Rublev - Andrei Tarkovsky (1966)
Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles - Chantal Akerman (1975)
Seven - David Fincher (1995)
Tuvalu - Veit Helmer (1999)


Last edited by AfterHours on 03/13/2023 19:41; edited 73 times in total
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homelessking





  • #1125
  • Posted: 02/07/2023 05:38
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Ah so you revisited Unsane already. Wish you rated it a bit higher tho :^)
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AfterHours



Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #1126
  • Posted: 02/07/2023 15:43
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homelessking wrote:
Ah so you revisited Unsane already. Wish you rated it a bit higher tho :^)


It has a really good shot at an upgrade, perhaps even returning to its earlier 7.9-8.2 range. I was just very sure it was at least 7.5 but not quite ready yet to say "for sure" above that. I should still revisit it a couple more times and I wouldn't be surprised if that moved it up a bit more. Particularly because it is recorded pretty low quality (not necessarily a "qualitative" or "ratings" drawback; it's keeping with its "punk" spirit, and I'm sure, very low budget), I still need to listen through with a "finer tooth comb" to differentiate the songs and the changes within them a bit more and get a fuller picture of it as a whole and the individuality of its various parts/songs (including what is special about it enough to separate from, carve its own valuable place along-side or near, for instance, with the hardcore emotional immediacy, vigorous spirit and lo-fi "hyper-realism" [like its being recorded right then and there, invigorated by sudden inspiration/ferocity] as Husker Du, MC5... and the "pitch black" emotional color/devastation/void of Big Black, Shellac/Albini, Jesus Lizard...). It had been a pretty long time since I'd listened to it and I didn't have a great recollection of its content beforehand so I'm still "in progress" with it for sure.
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AfterHours



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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #1127
  • Posted: 02/07/2023 16:20
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theredkrayola wrote:
What are the punk albums you consider wilder and more chaotic than Double Nickels? And why are they not masterpieces?

The only punk albums I can think of that match Double Nickels in terms of chaos are Flowers of Romance, Rudimentary Peni's Cacophony, Red Medicine... all of which are masterpieces or near-masterpieces




"This sort of thing requires a much more nuanced perspective (to see the differences, what is special about a work in relation to all the others with apparently similar surface characteristics). Secondly, there are many, many albums that are wilder, more chaotic and some just as diverse, as Double Nickels, that would appear (in the stage of "estimating" or "intuition") to be just as much as a (potential) "masterpiece" as Double Nickels if that were all or mostly the sort of thing one was using to determine such (before really experiencing it's merits, before liking it...). So in order to even begin to understand why it's a masterpiece, one has to find what makes Double Nickels special in the first place (more than all those other punk albums that are -- on the surface at least -- just as intense, wild, diverse) and doing that requires enough personal experience with the work to actually observe, notice and grasp this (may be a few listens, may be several...)."

At first I didn't think I said that but I guess I kind of did. The part of the quote above in bold is sort of a typo. The part before that where I'm just referencing "albums in general" is more what I intended to be getting at. The part in bold should be semi-modified or at least better specified to have "or" in between "intense, wild, diverse" (intense or wild or diverse ... the commas were meant to say the same thing but are easily missed ... in other words, I didn't necessarily mean all three of those characteristics in a single album but any/or...). And before that, I only meant "albums in general" (when specifying "chaos").

That all said, for a punk album, Double Nickels isn't really THAT chaotic (relatively) unless one is only basing "chaos" on, or mainly on, "rhythmic diversity". There aren't many punk albums that can touch it in terms of rhythmic diversity. But The Clash Sandinista and London Calling are similarly "diverse". Many punk albums (or proto punk, or very adjacent music/genres) are much more calamitous (which I think is closer to "chaos") whether it be Unsane or Thinking Fellars Union (perhaps the best comparison in terms of chaos + diversity) or The Stooges of Funhouse or MC5 (KOTJ) or Nirvana's best two live albums or Husker Du or Man Man (arguable), or perhaps the Cardiacs (Sing to God) or Jesus Lizard or the Sex Pistols (Never Mind the Bollocks), Von Lmo. These are all more violent, ferocious, calamitous, chaotic (or at least most of them are ... a couple of them arguable). I don't think they're "better" or more original though.

Double Nickels is actually pretty composed for a punk album. Not to say it doesn't have a "wild abandon" to it as well (quite the contrary), in its relentless change and search for diversity. But its compositional and technical command among so much rhythmic dexterity is part of what makes it so amazing. Is that it has the improvisational, off the cuff spirit of punk but is also often as composed as many works of jazz (at least briefly, in each, song to song ... certainly not "long form" like much of the best improvised jazz).

Perhaps the most key elements that make Double Nickels extraordinary in that it has a highly intellectual side, like a mad genius going off about his life and times. The continual rhythmic dexterity and technical acumen propel the songs forward in an endless variety of ways. But the songs are also akin to monologues, and the endless variety and rapid fire "montage" of all of them (as a near continuous series) becomes akin to that of a massive "stream of consciousness" of a mad genius (again, a huge key in all of this in realizing they are akin to "monologues").

On top of that they are expressing (across the whole) a monumental picture and all the emotional release (both positive and negative, embracing the life and expressing lament and frustrations and anarchy) of the "punk life and all its spirit and ethos and cause". This is inherent in all aspect of the songs which are of course recorded with little polish and seem practically improvised (as individual units and the continual change of direction, plus only a minute or two long, so the continual change of song on top of the last as well). The bass often serves as a provocation and contemplative charge or counterpoint to the singer's "monologues" (playing off him, accentuating his thoughts, provoking or facilitating then and vice versa). The lead guitar spasms often have a tortured anguish to them of a soul trying to grab hold of anything he can possibly experience. The songs often end before they've barely begun, in the middle of a climax or bridge or just as a lead solo happened or just before they would have under "normal" circumstances. This is all a restless unrelenting expression of the whole punk ethos in its glory and lament (the gamut of a mind, a mad genius thinking about his life and times, but both a mad genius and a "punk" too, never too "intellectual" never too "punk"). The songs are recorded and played with an immediacy akin to "guerilla filmmaking" (as if right there, in the moment, pseudo doc, capturing the surprise and randomness of real-life...), ferociously, breathlessly, sometimes poetically, changing and adapting to every moment and emotional/thematic whim of the mad genius protagonist. It should also not be missed how many sub genres they fit into the minute spaces of their mini songs (often vacillating multiple times in a single one).

Re: guerilla filmmaking... Watch Stone's Salvador, Scorsese's Mean Streets, The Battle of Algiers, Come and See, to get "pseudo" examples of what I mean. Among those, maybe Mean Streets comes closest to some sort of "equivalent" to Double Nickels (though it would need to be more relentless, diverse, expansive to truly match up).
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homelessking





  • #1128
  • Posted: 02/08/2023 01:28
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Perhaps you could check out the 2022 remaster of Unsane then? I personally don't like it because though it boosts the guitar (which I do think is a little bit lacking on the original release), it simply increases the volume while the drum's gets reduced so the sound feels compressed. The result feels more rock rather than just thoroughly apocalyptic, tho I think you can just quickly check out a song and then decide.
Wish they could have somehow made the guitar sound more like this https://youtu.be/o6wzNr_rfuw Fits Scaruffi's description "A sense of tragedy worthy of a Holocaust documentary reigns supreme over the work" more imo
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AfterHours



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  • #1129
  • Posted: 02/08/2023 01:54
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homelessking wrote:
Perhaps you could check out the 2022 remaster of Unsane then? I personally don't like it because though it boosts the guitar (which I do think is a little bit lacking on the original release), it simply increases the volume while the drum's gets reduced so the sound feels compressed. The result feels more rock rather than just thoroughly apocalyptic, tho I think you can just quickly check out a song and then decide.
Wish they could have somehow made the guitar sound more like this https://youtu.be/o6wzNr_rfuw Fits Scaruffi's description "A sense of tragedy worthy of a Holocaust documentary reigns supreme over the work" more imo


Ill give it a try but I didn't mean to insinuate (if I did) that the recording quality is a drawback. Especially being punk. It probably only adds to the apocalyptic bleakness/devastation, the sense of immediacy and hyper-realistic atmosphere/sound world. I just meant that it will probably take me a few more listens to adjust to listening for details (now that I am returning to it after so long) that are, due to this, murkier than the avg recording. I could say similar things about the masterpieces of The VU, or Husker Du, for example, if they weren't so familiar to me.
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AfterHours



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  • #1130
  • Posted: 02/08/2023 22:48
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theredkrayola wrote:
What are the punk albums you consider wilder and more chaotic than Double Nickels? And why are they not masterpieces?


^^^ Re: bolded ... Sorry, I'm not going to pick all them out and go through those and try and describe each as to why/why not they are masterpieces. But it always comes down to the main points detailed on my criteria page. It's not quite as simple as I'm about to put it (it's hard to account for every scenario, every type of work, in a short explanation), but essentially (as stated on that page), a work can only be so great (i.e. have so much depth) if its focus is largely "emotional" yet mediocre conceptually/thematically. Or largely "conceptual" but mediocre emotionally. The most stunning works in each of those areas can get pretty high ratings but the higher up the scale, the harder and harder it gets to only rely too largely on one or the other. At some point the artist has to very creatively put both together (both significantly), with lots of depth expressed (both consistently throughout the work, and peaking greatly within the work, causing a qualitative momentum that is very substantial and significant to experience). This (hitting on all cylinders: emotion, concept, creatively) probably starts coming to its fullest fruition around 9.0 (slightly less than that around 8.8-8.9) and then gets to increasingly improbable, even miraculous levels, the higher one goes. The highest ratings for works of chaos are not simply the "most" chaotic but the greatest fusion of the ferocity of chaos (emotion) and meaningfulness or ideas behind it (concept) being expressed. The same applies to the most vibrant and beautiful works, the most quiet and subtle works, and so on, etc, etc, etc.
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