RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #11
- Posted: 05/30/2016 20:49
- Post subject:
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I used to have interest in this topic... now I don't have much attachment to it, but for those that do believe, what do you think these ideas mean. I think they are both right even if they don't exactly agree with each other.
There's some made up quote from Gandhi that supposedly says when your thoughts, words, and actions are in harmony, that is true happiness.
Martin Luther rightly so was tired of the emphasis on physical works and lack of faith he often talked about how works do nothing (sorry I only have this in German and I'll poorly translate it for you):
Quote: | So hilft es der Seele nichts, wenn der Leib heilige Kleider anlegt, wie die Priester und Geistlichen tun, auch nicht wenn er in den Kirchen und heiligen Stätten ist, auch nicht, wenn er mit heiligen Dingen umgeht, auch nicht, wenn er leiblich betet, fastet, wallfahrtet, und alle guten Werke tut, die immer durch und in dem Leibe geschehen können. Es muß noch ganz etwas anderes sein, das der Seele bringe und gebe Frommsein und Freiheit - Martin Luther in An Den Christlichen Adel Deutscher Nation.
It helps the soul not when the body puts on holy clothing, like the priests do, also not when one is in church or goes to holy sites, also not when he handles holy objects, also not when he physically prays, fasts, goes on holy pilgrimages, and all good works do, which always through and in the body physically occurs. There must be something totally different that brings the soul piety and freedom.
From Martin Luther's To the Christian Noble German Nation.
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Hence this idea of Sola fide was born:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide
Yet from the New Testament we read:
Quote: | NIV: http://www.biblica.com/en-us/bible/onli...;chapter=2
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?
21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend.
24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?
26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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King James:
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. |
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #13
- Posted: 05/30/2016 23:17
- Post subject:
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benpaco wrote: | I 100% forgot about this. Seth, you should lead this, sounds like you've still got a real passion in it |
Sure... if people find it interesting/participate in discussion, doesn't turn into bible bashing rather a place we can learn from one another on matters of spirituality, AND if I can get someone to help me represent Eastern religious thought/philosophy.
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