Point of Discussion: Album Staying Power - Music

RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

POINT OF DISCUSSION

This is Point of Discussion, a thread for people to discuss issues and topics related to music in a thoughtful and productive way. The goal of this is to make you think, to make you take a look at what you believe, why you believe it, and what others believe. Good discussion is the key to any society, and this is a place where, hopefully, that can be fostered. If you would like a certain topic to be discussed or question to be posed, PM me or post in this thread and I'll toss it in when I can.

All of that being said, there are a few guidelines.

The Guidelines:

Don't be a dick

All opinions are welcome

There are no wrong opinions

The conversation can go anywhere

The Topic:
Shoutout to mecca for the suggestion of this one:

meccalecca wrote:

what gives an album staying power over repeated listens and extended periods of time, versus that fleeting pleasure of others.

So basically, what is it that makes an album stay so good over a long period of time and multiple listens, versus those albums that you love at first but rarely revisit? Why do you come back to the albums you love?
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Applerill
Autistic Princess <3

Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago

Hmm, this is a really interesting question. People have asked this a lot over the past decade or two in movies, as they've noticed that so many releases like JJ Abrams's Star Trek: Into Darkness have people leaving the theater thinking it's a perfect movie, only to start doubting how good it was when they got home.

With music, though, this is a really strange question, because so many members here have radically different kinds of albums that stick with them. Some people connect to purely the sonic, others to purely the semiotic. You can even argue that a lot of the albums that we shrug off are dismissed only due to our own laziness to give them another chance (I know this has been the case with me countless times).

RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

For me, I think one of the biggest things is an album's association to a major point in my life. There are albums I love (like much of Ben Folds' stuff) that I really got into during a difficult period of my life, and those albums helped me through it, whether by distracting me or just really connecting with me at that time. It's like sharing a close experience with a friend, it creates a deeper bond between the two of you, I'm the same way with some albums, some of these albums got me through difficult experiences, or multiple difficult experiences, and as such, I feel closer to them, I feel a deeper bond to them. They give me hope sometimes when things feel like shit, they're like friends who are always there for you no matter what.

Perhaps I'm anthropomorphizing these things a bit too much, but that's definitely something that has always stuck with me, it's why Blood On The Tracks is one of my favorite albums ever.
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Applerill
Autistic Princess <3

Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago

RockyRaccoon wrote:

For me, I think one of the biggest things is an album's association to a major point in my life. There are albums I love (like much of Ben Folds' stuff) that I really got into during a difficult period of my life, and those albums helped me through it, whether by distracting me or just really connecting with me at that time. It's like sharing a close experience with a friend, it creates a deeper bond between the two of you, I'm the same way with some albums, some of these albums got me through difficult experiences, or multiple difficult experiences, and as such, I feel closer to them, I feel a deeper bond to them. They give me hope sometimes when things feel like shit, they're like friends who are always there for you no matter what.

Perhaps I'm anthropomorphizing these things a bit too much, but that's definitely something that has always stuck with me, it's why Blood On The Tracks is one of my favorite albums ever.

This makes sense. From a purely statistical standpoint, we are more willing to go back to things connected with certain events. I guess this is where "uniqueness" comes in too, as each unique thing an album does is a potential reference point for our mind to return to.

I guess what makes that conclusion strange is that it basically paints us all as nostalgia addicts. If the main reason you return to an album is because something personal happened in life, then how is someone who has no relation to you or that moment supposed to get into that album? This isn't to criticize us for that leaning, but I Think there has to be something more in music that brings us back.

RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

Applerill wrote:

I guess what makes that conclusion strange is that it basically paints us all as nostalgia addicts. If the main reason you return to an album is because something personal happened in life, then how is someone who has no relation to you or that moment supposed to get into that album? This isn't to criticize us for that leaning, but I Think there has to be something more in music that brings us back.

I think that's a very valid point. There are albums of mine that I associate with certain events in my life, albums I have a very personal connection to (see: Shaimus' "The Sad Thing Is We Like It Here") that others might not find much worth in. I think everyone has albums like that, though I don't think it's the only thing that gives albums staying power, but it's a big part of it.

There are also, obviously, some albums that appeal to emotions, albums like Hospice or a lot of RHPs stuff, and people form emotional bonds to those albums. In those cases, I think when recommending those albums to people, the recommender hopes that the recommendee is able to tap into that emotion on some level and form a similar connection, but much in the way that you can't manufacture a friendship, you can't manufacture a relationship with an album, it all has to occur organically, and I think that's why all of us have strong connections to some albums that might seem odd to have a connection with.

Honestly, I'd love to kind of re-start the "BEAs Albums to Hear Before You Die" project from a couple years ago, because it tried to explore albums from BEA members that they have a deep, personal connection to. It's fascinating to me to hear why different people have such deeply personal connections to different albums.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

While I'm not sure there's an actual direct answer to this, I believe staying power is the result of being able to continue offer something worthwhile to the listener. Of course this just leads to the question of what is the album offering down the line following repeated initial listens. For me this becomes a question of surface value vs depth. Some albums offer a cheap thrill, a gimmick that is instantly pleasurable, but once familiar offers little more future reward. I think of this as the equivalent to the Sixth Sense. Once you've seen it once, the big pay off of the movie is erased from all future viewings.

This may partially be about subtlety. Big and obvious tends to lose impact over time, while subtle often reveals itself over time. But it's definitely not all about subtlety. Nostalgia definitely factors in. When an album or song attaches to memories within our lives, revisiting the album has a way of conjuring those memories. So despite having no direct relationship with the memory, the album becomes intertwined. This can be both good and bad. "Ladies & Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space" is connected to my own wedding. Meanwhile there's albums and bands linked to horrible past relationships that I would rather not listen to just because they bring about negative feelings that have nothing to do with the actual music.

Production and technology changes can also have an effect. Some records seem dated after a decade or two. Oddly enough, others manage to overcome that despite similar production, sounds. Being directly linked to a particular trend can definitely date music. For example the production on At The Drive In's Relationship of Command didn't bother me at the time of release. I love that album. And now the overly loud, sleek production ruins much of the experience for me.

Depth is tough to evaluate. Depth can be complicated and simple. I can't help but feel that the lyrical work of artists such as Joanna Newsom and Bob Dylan is just so deep that it provides their songs with incredible staying power. It's tough to totally absorb everything they're saying within just a couple listens. And because so much is being said, what might not stick with you at one point in life will stick with you 5 years down the road. And this goes beyond the music. There are nuanced compositions that take time to appreciate.

Listening, like all relationships, is about reciprocal give and take. Once that album stops giving you the pleasure it once did, you'll stop giving it your time.
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Applerill
Autistic Princess <3

Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago

I don't know if I'm an unknowing hypocrite regarding this, but I really think that the "tragic catharsis" angle of music listening is overvalued in these discussions. Obviously it's the biggest reason teenagers listen to music, and a lot of college students like me have their own melodrama they connect to music with, but I don't know if all the casual "music fans" that work in offices and car dealerships treat their listening that way. (Then again, a lot of those people bought Susan Boyle and Adele albums in the late 2000s, and catharsis could have been associated there). I think often we just return to music because it's catchy and fun.

That being said, maybe your definition of "return to" is much more conscious and intentional than mine initially was. If your definition of "return to" is "huddle up with headphones and cry", then of course it'll feed into those things.

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Applerill wrote:

I guess what makes that conclusion strange is that it basically paints us all as nostalgia addicts. If the main reason you return to an album is because something personal happened in life, then how is someone who has no relation to you or that moment supposed to get into that album? This isn't to criticize us for that leaning, but I Think there has to be something more in music that brings us back.

Nostalgia has a strange power. I think what we'd also want to think about is why a particular album found its way into that moment in your life to connect so deeply to a memory. And I think it definitely has a more direct reasoning beyond the right place at the right time scenario. Sometimes we intentionally place things into those situations. For example me making "Ladies & Gentlemen..." part of the wedding ceremony was directly intentional.
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

meccalecca wrote:

Production and technology changes can also have an effect. Some records seem dated after a decade or two. Oddly enough, others manage to overcome that despite similar production, sounds. Being directly linked to a particular trend can definitely date music.

This is definitely right, there are plenty of "time and place" albums, albums that really made sense in a certain time of culture that might seem irrelevant or outdated now.

Plus production, certainly older hip-hop albums sometimes have this issue (though for me, it's not always a huge one) in that the production really sounds dated when you listen to it.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Applerill wrote:

I think often we just return to music because it's catchy and fun.

You're totally right. I didn't mean to take the discussion into the "tragic catharsis"-only route. I believe there's a hell of a lot of reasons that music sticks with us over time and conjures the need to revisit. Some records simply make me feel good every time, so I'll always return to them. It's Never Been Like That by Phoenix has that kind of effect on me. As does a lot of 80s/early 90s New Jack Swing
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