Privilege and politics - Politics & Religion

Allabaster

It seems a lot of people view music in relation to how it expresses the sentiments of those with or without privilege. Do you believe that being privileged has a large effect on how someone views politics? If so, in what way?

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

It's pretty rare that someone from privilege understands the working class struggle (80% of the population-even if I just made that up)... but this isn't always the case.

I mean... Karl Marx himself was not part of the working class.

I think it is also important to note that just about ANY musician really isn't part of the working class and it is a sign of privilege for one to have the money to purchase music equipment and have the free time to write music. Ultra-privilege... no, but it does take a certain level of resources to be an "artist".

And yes I know these artists often live out of their cars or are completely homeless and most are coming from middle class families... but the argument still stands that you need a certain level of privilege to be an artist.

I do agree with the argument that an artist needs to have some kind of struggle to be more than something people will forget about... they have to connect with humanity and the reality of humanity is that we struggle. Life is hard and if you haven't experienced that yet, then your art isn't worth anything to me.

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

sethmadsen wrote:

I think it is also important to note that just about ANY musician really isn't part of the working class and it is a sign of privilege for one to have the money to purchase music equipment and have the free time to write music. Ultra-privilege... no, but it does take a certain level of resources to be an "artist".

And yes I know these artists often live out of their cars or are completely homeless and most are coming from middle class families... but the argument still stands that you need a certain level of privilege to be an artist.

Hm I don't know your definition of working class but here it doesn't mean you live in a state of poverty so bad you can't afford a guitar or a keyboard or something. Pretty much anybody in this country has access to these things if they really want it. I'd say quite a lot of big UK artists are definitely what you could call working class.

A lot of hip hop artists really do come from backgrounds of poverty.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

I think it is also important to note that just about ANY musician really isn't part of the working class and it is a sign of privilege for one to have the money to purchase music equipment and have the free time to write music. Ultra-privilege... no, but it does take a certain level of resources to be an "artist".

And yes I know these artists often live out of their cars or are completely homeless and most are coming from middle class families... but the argument still stands that you need a certain level of privilege to be an artist.

Hm I don't know your definition of working class but here it doesn't mean you live in a state of poverty so bad you can't afford a guitar or a keyboard or something. Pretty much anybody in this country has access to these things if they really want it. I'd say quite a lot of big UK artists are definitely what you could call working class.

A lot of hip hop artists really do come from backgrounds of poverty.

That's the beauty of rap/hip-hop... you don't need anything but wit and your voice. You make a mix tap of just you rapping a capella, and that's kinda all you need. I remember seeing in South Central. It was rad to see kids get together and just rap with each other... playing a beat out of a shitty boom box or phone... the beat almost didn't matter, it was the whit of the rap.

You are correct, I'm confusing two ideas/time periods who used the term working class differently, but maybe this helps say what I meant?

1) Kings and nobles - these were the people that had the free time to learn how to read and write and peasants didn't. You'd have to be someone "powerful" to be an artist... or have someone powerful backing you... otherwise you were a peasant and sure maybe you'd play an instrument around the campfire of traditional songs passed down. But to take time to study music and write music... it's kind of hard when you are spending 12 hours in the fields or the factory or whatever a true Working Class Hero did.

2) If you are working two to three part-time jobs at two different Starbucks for 12-18 hours a day, 6 days a week... you probably don't have the time or the money to get into music. This is a real thing: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/29/nyreg...ision.html

When I think working class, I mean people who work REALLY hard... not a 9-5 paper pusher who probably makes plenty to buy music equipment and doesn't have parents who still wipe ass for them (in other words, a kid could buy music equipment working part time at minimum wage, so long as parents are still paying for everything else for the 20 year old).

By the way, I work in IT and make plenty to have wasted about $5k on music equipment... but I also lived a life where I also was working 3 jobs to know it is impossible for someone in that situation to do anything more than be a slave of someone else. Try it sometime, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I'm not saying that people in extreme poverty can't do music... I'm just saying if you can't afford food, it is less likely to afford the luxury of music.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

So I just realized from this wiki that possibly those in the US use working class differently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class

If for you middle class and working class are synonymous I totally get why my terminology is so confusing. Cause if you said middle class people can't afford to make music... I'd furrow my brow too.

Also as tragic as the lady's life with 3 jobs was, an argument could be that she was dumb, not overworked (she died from fumes from spilled gas in her car's trunk, not over worked). And I get that, but the reality is when you work like that and you are someone's almost slave labor, you are not mentally in the best of states. The quickest solution to her problem was to put gas in her trunk instead of filling up. She was afraid enough that if she were late to her job she would be fired and then be without food until she found her 3rd job or whatever.

She didn't have the luxury of time to simply put gas in her car... how the hell was she going to have time to make music. That's my point, I suppose.

benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?

Age: 27
Location: California

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

I think it is also important to note that just about ANY musician really isn't part of the working class and it is a sign of privilege for one to have the money to purchase music equipment and have the free time to write music. Ultra-privilege... no, but it does take a certain level of resources to be an "artist".

And yes I know these artists often live out of their cars or are completely homeless and most are coming from middle class families... but the argument still stands that you need a certain level of privilege to be an artist.

Hm I don't know your definition of working class but here it doesn't mean you live in a state of poverty so bad you can't afford a guitar or a keyboard or something. Pretty much anybody in this country has access to these things if they really want it. I'd say quite a lot of big UK artists are definitely what you could call working class.

A lot of hip hop artists really do come from backgrounds of poverty.

There's a lot of diy punk bands as well, emo bands based in bedrooms, etc. dandelion hands is a guy with a synth and a room, pretty sure he works another job. I know most of the band Old Gray still have to work second jobs as well despite moderate success. Decent number of older blues artists were totally broke as well, etc. Some people's Grandpa had a guitar and passed it down, some people are still recording in their rooms on cassette machines their parents had, and some people end up with a guitar for 20 bucks from goodwill.
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Things I Make

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

benpaco wrote:

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

sethmadsen wrote:

I think it is also important to note that just about ANY musician really isn't part of the working class and it is a sign of privilege for one to have the money to purchase music equipment and have the free time to write music. Ultra-privilege... no, but it does take a certain level of resources to be an "artist".

And yes I know these artists often live out of their cars or are completely homeless and most are coming from middle class families... but the argument still stands that you need a certain level of privilege to be an artist.

Hm I don't know your definition of working class but here it doesn't mean you live in a state of poverty so bad you can't afford a guitar or a keyboard or something. Pretty much anybody in this country has access to these things if they really want it. I'd say quite a lot of big UK artists are definitely what you could call working class.

A lot of hip hop artists really do come from backgrounds of poverty.

There's a lot of diy punk bands as well, emo bands based in bedrooms, etc. dandelion hands is a guy with a synth and a room, pretty sure he works another job. I know most of the band Old Gray still have to work second jobs as well despite moderate success. Decent number of older blues artists were totally broke as well, etc. Some people's Grandpa had a guitar and passed it down, some people are still recording in their rooms on cassette machines their parents had, and some people end up with a guitar for 20 bucks from goodwill.

Oh for sure. I'm such a person as well. Jeffrey Lewis is too and writes great stuff and does awesome comics.

Neither Jeffery Lewis or the people you mentioned or I am working 3 jobs either.

I think maybe I'm not communicating well/the idea/thought process isn't being understood. Not sure if you read my clarification and that made more sense?

benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?

Age: 27
Location: California

sethmadsen wrote:

benpaco wrote:

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

[quote="sethmadsen" ]I think it is also important to note that just about ANY musician really isn't part of the working class and it is a sign of privilege for one to have the money to purchase music equipment and have the free time to write music. Ultra-privilege... no, but it does take a certain level of resources to be an "artist".

And yes I know these artists often live out of their cars or are completely homeless and most are coming from middle class families... but the argument still stands that you need a certain level of privilege to be an artist.

Hm I don't know your definition of working class but here it doesn't mean you live in a state of poverty so bad you can't afford a guitar or a keyboard or something. Pretty much anybody in this country has access to these things if they really want it. I'd say quite a lot of big UK artists are definitely what you could call working class.

A lot of hip hop artists really do come from backgrounds of poverty.

There's a lot of diy punk bands as well, emo bands based in bedrooms, etc. dandelion hands is a guy with a synth and a room, pretty sure he works another job. I know most of the band Old Gray still have to work second jobs as well despite moderate success. Decent number of older blues artists were totally broke as well, etc. Some people's Grandpa had a guitar and passed it down, some people are still recording in their rooms on cassette machines their parents had, and some people end up with a guitar for 20 bucks from goodwill.

Oh for sure. I'm such a person as well. Jeffrey Lewis is too and writes great stuff and does awesome comics.

Neither Jeffery Lewis or the people you mentioned or I am working 3 jobs either.

I think maybe I'm not communicating well/the idea/thought process isn't being understood. Not sure if you read my clarification and that made more sense?[/quote]

I saw your clarification, though I'd have to say that being in a band in many ways is its own job, especially in a high profile enough one to have regular gigs, tours, festival spots, etc. Like to do that is at least the effort of a part time job in my head so I guess I'm counting "pro-guitarist/cashier" as 2 jobs. And even that's aside from the point, I think you can be working class or unemployed or in crippling poverty and still create music - whether or not you'll go on to be a big success, obviously, is another story, and I think there's an obvious amount where money helps, but it's certainly not the only limitting factor, and there are definitely musicians out there who have come out of working class backgrounds.
_________________

. . . 2016 . . . 2015 . . .

Things I Make

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

sethmadsen wrote:

So I just realized from this wiki that possibly those in the US use working class differently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_class

If for you middle class and working class are synonymous I totally get why my terminology is so confusing. Cause if you said middle class people can't afford to make music... I'd furrow my brow too.

No they mean very different things here. Maybe we are still using different definitions of the word working class but in the UK if you work 40 hrs a week at minimum wage you can afford music equipment if you really want to. Class means way more than how much you earn here but let's just assume if you work a min wage job you're working class.

Yes, being working class makes access to a career in music more difficult, but not so much as it does access to many professional type careers and it def doesn't make it impossible. There are and have been many UK musicians that would be recognised as working class in the UK.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

I agree with both of what you are saying and in my mind what you are saying doesn't negate what I'm saying... I think both exist, but I'm retarded and can't really explain that.

I suppose the easiest is that there are varying degrees of all that was said.