BREXIT

[HigherThanTheSun]

In case anyone hadn't realised the UK will be voting on June 23rd on whether to remain in or to leave the EU aka Brexit. People have bitched for years about how the EU is too undemocratic, or too bureaucratic, or over-regulatory, or too federalised or whatever else and last general election David Cameron caved and decided to give the electorate a vote on whether to carry on being a part. This only following a re-negotiation of Britain's terms of membership where DC tried to win concessions re an opt-out from 'ever closer union' and limits to eu migrants rights to claim UK benefits(welfare).

So now britain votes on on whether to accept these new terms of membership or leave completely. Nobody at this point knows what exactly will happen to the UK if it does leave ie will it still have access to the single market (and if so does that mean they'll still have to be regulated by Brussels and accept free movement of people, in which case what is the point of leaving) or will there now be trade barriers between the uk and the eu which is the uks biggest export market (and if so how high will the trade barriers be). Will the remaining eu members try to punish the uk to deter others following their lead or will they worry too much about their own trade with the uk to do this. Will the remainder of the eu begin to integrate more closely after brexit or see it as a warning that it is heading in the wrong direction ie ease off on integration for now. And if britain votes to stay but only by a narrow margin surely further integration will be politically impossible for a long long time, especially with britain's veto on this ?

The arguments for remaining in the eu are mainly about the negative effect it would have on our economy. That without access to the single market we would suffer in terms of trade, jobs, investment and this is an argument backed up by pretty much any respected economist. Also the argument about pooling power to increase uk influence in the world like when the eu negotiated as a block at the Paris climate change conference. Of course the eu affords british people the right to live and work anywhere in the eu and it also legislates for workers rights ie paid sickness/holiday leave, heath and safety at work, working hours etc that people fear could be abandoned by future british (probably right wing) governments if not protected by being a condition of eu membership.

The arguments for leaving are mainly to do with sovereignty and immigration. Membership to the eu and access to the single market means you have to follow the rules of the eu and single market in terms of trade regulation and also the free movement of people. There are worries about the democratic accountability of the people who make decisions in Brussels with the European Commission being entirely unelected. Also net migration to the uk is currently 333,000 per yr with about half of this from the eu - people worry about the effect of this on public services, housing and wage inflation, and also about the long term sustainability of a population increasing by a million every three years.

Soo what are people voting for and why.. what would people vote for if they were british.. and what is the view from the continent and the rest of the world on potential brexit and its impact ??
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Shut up mate you're boring!

[Skinny]

Really disappointed with the lack of visibility from the left throughout this entire thing. There are major arguments to be made for staying in the EU on the basis of workers' rights that aren't really being made. Boris is ready to accept any version of TTIP, and Brexit Tories have already described the EU's workers' rights as a "burden". And where the fuck is Corbyn in all of this? Trying to keep his distance from Cameron? It's a joke.
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2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.

[misc]

I'm voting remain.

It should be said I have never been to the UK or Europe and have read at least 3 articles from The Guardian BREXIT. It seems to me that the middle and lower class benefit from EU regulations that the Tories would no doubt like to scrap.

Obviously I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about though.

[Puncture Repair]

I'll be voting remain simply based on personal ideology. I'm an internationalist, whether its better for 'my' country or not.

This whole referendum has pretty much killed any faith I had in democracy. Both sides are spewing reactionary crap to get people riled up, when the reality is it's almost all speculation and guessing. How the general public are meant to form any kind of carefully considered consensus is beyond me. You're either a racist or a hippy.

[alelsupreme]

I'm voting remain. The EU may be a mostly shit institution set up for the benefit of corporations but It's got its good qualities too, and if we vote leave we're not going to end up going left - the people who'll capitalise off of such a victory would be reactionary right-wingers such as Farage and Johnson. And if Britain does see a notable left-wing swing in policies that the EU disapproves of? Well we aren't fucking Greece - it'll be considerably harder for them to bully us into submission.
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Romanelli wrote:

We're all fucked, lads.

[LadyGodiva]

I am no longer eligible to vote in the referendum because I have lived outside of the UK (mostly in the EU) for too long.

if I were able to vote, I would vote remain.

I personally have benefited hugely from being part of the EEC and later the EU. I was able to study for my degree in Germany. I was treated exactly like other German students, I was not charged tuition fees and was given access to cheap housing. I was able to work and reside in France, Germany, Austria, Tahiti and Sweden as if I was a native of those countries. I paid taxes and social security contributions as a good citizen should but I didn't have to go through lengthy and costly immigration and visa processes to be allowed to stay. I just had to register with the authorities (like their own citizens do). I saw the cost of flights reduce significantly when the EU lifted airline restrictions in the late 90s. I saw the amount of paid leave and maternity leave entitlements increase across the EU in line with EU directives. I also saw my delapidated and run down home city regenerate thanks partly to EU funding and cash injections. And I met my husband.

I compare that to where I live now outside the EU - an amazing country but difficult and expensive to get a residency visa (even as a skilled migrant). Limited paid sick leave entitlements, limited paid leave entitlements and inferior maternity leave entitlements. The range of goods available to buy is small as the market is small and there is no bulk buying power!

I know the EU isn't perfect and needs some fixing, but it gave me opportunities I would never have dreamed possible. I would never vote to take those opportunities away from future generations. Sovereignity is overrated - we are better together!

[HigherThanTheSun]

Newcastle and Sunderland both returned much higher leave percentages than estimated. I'm so scared
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Shut up mate you're boring!

[benpaco]

Rather frightening to watch a country go this way. As a US citizen, obviously no vote in it, but the attitude of "forget what experts say, what exists needs to change and we'll build our wings on the way down" seems to be the same for leave and Trump alike ...
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. . . 2016 . . . 2015 . . .

Things I Make

[Norman Bates]

Goodbye friends!

[Hayden]

Interesting

I've never been to the UK, and I'm not 100% how this will affect them, but I can assume it will make a huge impact. Crazy close vote too.

I'm looking forward to hear from our UK community on what they think of this.