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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #381
- Posted: 04/02/2021 20:36
- Post subject:
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| DommeDamian wrote: | | AfterHours wrote: | | DommeDamian wrote: | [quote="homelessking "]I'll pay attention to those points the next time I listen to it then
| Quote: | That said, 9s are almost impossible  |
If Beatles comp can be 8.6, probably nothing is too impossible :^) |
Literally one of my dream goals is to be a piece of art (painting/album/poem/symphony/you name it) that get a 7.5 from Scaruffi and AfterHours... or higher. |
Maybe you can count Michael Jackson's Bad in a vicarious sort of way 
(I updated it to 7.3+ onto my "Greatest" list roughly a year ago. Can't guarantee it will hold though! Bask in the glory while it lasts!) |
LOL
Sorry, I meant create a piece of art. Write a poem/compose a symphony/paint a painting etc[/quote]
Yep - I realized that - just thought you were half-joking/half-serious, so I played around with the more comedic aspect of it 
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DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.
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DelBocaVista
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- #383
- Posted: 04/08/2021 05:07
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[quote="DommeDamian"][quote="AfterHours"][quote="DommeDamian"]LOL
@DommeDamian: Small world! I randomly saw on Scaruffi's page that you did a bunch of his translations. If not, then that's a crazy coincidence :
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3A...amp;uact=5
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DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.
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Facetious
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been
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- #385
- Posted: 05/07/2021 14:55
- Post subject: Re: Greatest Albums of All Time (Rock & Jazz)
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| AfterHours wrote: | 5.7/10
1989 - Taylor Swift (2014)
Reputation - Taylor Swift (2012)
5.1/10
Red - Taylor Swift (2012)
3.7/10
Taylor Swift - Taylor Swift (2006)
3.0/10
Speak Now - Taylor Swift (2010)
2.8/10
Fearless - Taylor Swift (2008)
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Can't muster a defence for Fearless or Speak Now yet, but I'm interested in whether you really think the debut is much better. Also curious what you think of Reputation, which I remember as being so backloaded that most of the first half is almost unlistenable (apart from Delicate and So It Goes), and what caused the jump in Red's rating. Which songs are the most notable for you across her discography so far? (By the way, the date for Reputation needs to be corrected)
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #386
- Posted: 05/07/2021 18:56
- Post subject: Re: Greatest Albums of All Time (Rock & Jazz)
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| Facetious wrote: | | AfterHours wrote: | 5.7/10
1989 - Taylor Swift (2014)
Reputation - Taylor Swift (2012)
5.1/10
Red - Taylor Swift (2012)
3.7/10
Taylor Swift - Taylor Swift (2006)
3.0/10
Speak Now - Taylor Swift (2010)
2.8/10
Fearless - Taylor Swift (2008)
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Can't muster a defence for Fearless or Speak Now yet, but I'm interested in whether you really think the debut is much better. Also curious what you think of Reputation, which I remember as being so backloaded that most of the first half is almost unlistenable (apart from Delicate and So It Goes), and what caused the jump in Red's rating. Which songs are the most notable for you across her discography so far? (By the way, the date for Reputation needs to be corrected) |
The debut is her least "sophisticated" musically but also has a stripped down, relative emotional honesty that comes through on the best songs when she uses her voice just right (not over-extending her register past its limitations where it can become a bit superficial; Tim Mcgraw above all; Picture to Burn is a solid rowdier defiant song, others are more or less solid even if utterly unambitious, but basically keep it from a lower rating, such as Teardrops on My Guitar). In her best later works, she "hides" this limitation or supersedes it by more inventive melodic developments and Max Martin production effects that add emotional depth and vast repertoire's of rhythmic/melodic dexterity. But her debut is probably her most straightforwardly emotionally "real" even if her better albums take her life and personality to a much more vibrant, manic and exuberant artifice that is, overall, more compelling, and at their best, emotionally striking.
I actually think the first 1/2 of Reputation might be her most rhythmically/compositionally audacious (relatively speaking to her career, not "historically") approaching, maybe matching, the creativity of works like Lorde's Melodrama. If her vocals were on the same level, then it could maybe be a high-6 or even 6.5 or 7. Might not be completely out of the question for both Reputation and 1989 to get upgraded to 6-6.5 anyway. I've almost done it for 1989 a few times but a following listen or two always makes me doubt it just as much as I'm ready to go through with it. I need more time with Reputation but my most recent listen made me strongly consider 5.8-6.2.
I hardly know the song titles of Red, but would say State of Grace, I Knew You Were Trouble, and 22 are among the best, perhaps the best off the top of my head, mainly due to emotional honesty (State of Grace particularly), I Knew You Were Trouble's and 22's "catapulting" melodic and rhythmic dexterity and (relatively creative) developments. Other songs throughout the album feature these same qualities, just maybe not to the same degree, but still solid and consistent throughout.
She would probably be one of the great melodic artists of the 2010s if her vocals weren't usually mediocre and/or rather superficial. Her melodic invention is actually rather high for such a mainstream pop artist.
Much better examples of a vocalist that is also very youthful but more nuanced, individual and interesting personality-wise is Lorde ... or a limited vocalist like Madonna that, nevertheless, managed to convey a lot of mythic-persona, social-consciousness, chameleonic and personal psychology because she was so assured of her vision and how to evoke it ... Swift does best when the melodies are developed in interesting ways and strong/creative enough and the arrangements are colorful and animated and aligned to a persona that her voice suits best, such as "being swept up in the rush of color, vibrance and exuberance of life (and the anxiety of self-discovery)" like 1989 (though also with brimming emotional nuances in the in-between build-ups and bridges of the arrangements), or leaning to its darker side, with Reputation.
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Facetious
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been
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- #387
- Posted: 05/08/2021 21:02
- Post subject: Re: Greatest Albums of All Time (Rock & Jazz)
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| AfterHours wrote: | | Facetious wrote: | | AfterHours wrote: | 5.7/10
1989 - Taylor Swift (2014)
Reputation - Taylor Swift (2012)
5.1/10
Red - Taylor Swift (2012)
3.7/10
Taylor Swift - Taylor Swift (2006)
3.0/10
Speak Now - Taylor Swift (2010)
2.8/10
Fearless - Taylor Swift (2008)
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Can't muster a defence for Fearless or Speak Now yet, but I'm interested in whether you really think the debut is much better. Also curious what you think of Reputation, which I remember as being so backloaded that most of the first half is almost unlistenable (apart from Delicate and So It Goes), and what caused the jump in Red's rating. Which songs are the most notable for you across her discography so far? (By the way, the date for Reputation needs to be corrected) |
The debut is her least "sophisticated" musically but also has a stripped down, relative emotional honesty that comes through on the best songs when she uses her voice just right (not over-extending her register past its limitations where it can become a bit superficial; Tim Mcgraw above all; Picture to Burn is a solid rowdier defiant song, others are more or less solid even if utterly unambitious, but basically keep it from a lower rating, such as Teardrops on My Guitar). In her best later works, she "hides" this limitation or supersedes it by more inventive melodic developments and Max Martin production effects that add emotional depth and vast repertoire's of rhythmic/melodic dexterity. But her debut is probably her most straightforwardly emotionally "real" even if her better albums take her life and personality to a much more vibrant, manic and exuberant artifice that is, overall, more compelling, and at their best, emotionally striking.
I actually think the first 1/2 of Reputation might be her most rhythmically/compositionally audacious (relatively speaking to her career, not "historically") approaching, maybe matching, the creativity of works like Lorde's Melodrama. If her vocals were on the same level, then it could maybe be a high-6 or even 6.5 or 7. Might not be completely out of the question for both Reputation and 1989 to get upgraded to 6-6.5 anyway. I've almost done it for 1989 a few times but a following listen or two always makes me doubt it just as much as I'm ready to go through with it. I need more time with Reputation but my most recent listen made me strongly consider 5.8-6.2.
I hardly know the song titles of Red, but would say State of Grace, I Knew You Were Trouble, and 22 are among the best, perhaps the best off the top of my head, mainly due to emotional honesty (State of Grace particularly), I Knew You Were Trouble's and 22's "catapulting" melodic and rhythmic dexterity and (relatively creative) developments. Other songs throughout the album feature these same qualities, just maybe not to the same degree, but still solid and consistent throughout.
She would probably be one of the great melodic artists of the 2010s if her vocals weren't usually mediocre and/or rather superficial. Her melodic invention is actually rather high for such a mainstream pop artist.
Much better examples of a vocalist that is also very youthful but more nuanced, individual and interesting personality-wise is Lorde ... or a limited vocalist like Madonna that, nevertheless, managed to convey a lot of mythic-persona, social-consciousness, chameleonic and personal psychology because she was so assured of her vision and how to evoke it ... Swift does best when the melodies are developed in interesting ways and strong/creative enough and the arrangements are colorful and animated and aligned to a persona that her voice suits best, such as "being swept up in the rush of color, vibrance and exuberance of life (and the anxiety of self-discovery)" like 1989 (though also with brimming emotional nuances in the in-between build-ups and bridges of the arrangements), or leaning to its darker side, with Reputation. |
I agree with your points about the debut, I just find the songs on the next two albums far more memorable. The debut runs out of steam very quickly after Teardrops until Our Song. Anyway, for Speak Now in particular, I can see why there might be a problem initially. I think it might help to relisten to just the first half for a while, paying attention to how effortlessly she makes what are ostensibly all "pop" songs with the same formulas so distinct from each other; the hooks and vocal performances are immediately distinguishable, subtly changing the mood from song to song. Consider, for instance, the opening 6-song run: how distinct the intros and verses for each of the pop songs Mine, Sparks Fly, Speak Now, and Mean are, and how the instrumentation and mood subtly changes while keeping the quality of the melodies intact throughout (this last part is important), as well as how they surround the "epic" ballads Back to December and Dear John, both of which are again very different from each other. The rest of the album is not quite at the same level but The Story of Us, Enchanted, and Haunted stand out if I remember correctly. As for Scaruffi, I'm guessing he paid attention to the lyrics considering he calls it her most "personal" album (which I can understand to be honest; this was clearly the peak of her country phase before Red incorporated pop influence on many of the songs).
Re: Reputation... what songs are you thinking of in particular? I mostly agree with the consensus that it's one of her worst albums, so I'm curious what stands out here for you.
Re: Red... considering I like Speak Now, I obviously think All Too Well is a stand-out. The songs you mentioned are indeed highlights; I'll throw in a good word for the title track as well, which perfectly captures the transitional nature of the album. The second half of the album doesn't hold up quite as well for me but Holy Ground, Sad Beautiful Tragic (almost slow-core?), and Begin Again also stood out to me, and Starlight is fun. I predict an increase in the score; it strikes me as a much more colourful and sonically diverse work than Reputation at least.
Wonder what you'll think of Lover and Folklore. Taylor Swift keeps re-inventing herself on every album, even if the albums themselves are usually uneven.
Miscellaneous stuff:
I predict that the rating for Dedicated will rise, at least quite a bit higher than Kiss. The production is fairly solid. It only suffers slightly in comparison to Emotion because Emotion was that good (which is still a better album than you're giving it credit for imo).
Also, there's some explaining you need to do for the Miley Cyrus rating. Plus, are there any particular tracks from that album I should revisit? With the jumps in the ratings of this and Reputation, I'm wondering if a 9/10 for Revolver is next.
Btw, an interesting rating from Scaruffi: a 6/10 for an album from k-pop group BTS. I'll be slightly surprised if it ends up that high for you too, but I'm definitely curious as to what you'll think of it.
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geologist
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- #388
- Posted: 05/09/2021 00:49
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Once you get tired of all that Taylor Swift, you should check out the new Squid album "Bright Green Field". Really been enjoying it, it's a British post-punk album. Definitely draws comparison to Talking Heads, but also has clear inspiration from post-rock and krautrock.
I'm also curious if you've ever listened to the Math Rock band "The Brave Little Abacus", as I think their music is some of the most creative and cathartic of the 21st century.
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Facetious
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been
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- #389
- Posted: 05/09/2021 01:59
- Post subject:
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| geologist wrote: | Once you get tired of all that Taylor Swift, you should check out the new Squid album "Bright Green Field". Really been enjoying it, it's a British post-punk album. Definitely draws comparison to Talking Heads, but also has clear inspiration from post-rock and krautrock.
I'm also curious if you've ever listened to the Math Rock band "The Brave Little Abacus", as I think their music is some of the most creative and cathartic of the 21st century. |
Seconding the Brave Little Abacus recommendation: Masked Dancers and Just Got Back from the Discomfort are both at least in the 7-7.5 range imo.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #390
- Posted: 05/09/2021 07:01
- Post subject: Re: Greatest Albums of All Time (Rock & Jazz)
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| Facetious wrote: | | AfterHours wrote: | | Facetious wrote: | | AfterHours wrote: | 5.7/10
1989 - Taylor Swift (2014)
Reputation - Taylor Swift (2012)
5.1/10
Red - Taylor Swift (2012)
3.7/10
Taylor Swift - Taylor Swift (2006)
3.0/10
Speak Now - Taylor Swift (2010)
2.8/10
Fearless - Taylor Swift (2008)
|
Can't muster a defence for Fearless or Speak Now yet, but I'm interested in whether you really think the debut is much better. Also curious what you think of Reputation, which I remember as being so backloaded that most of the first half is almost unlistenable (apart from Delicate and So It Goes), and what caused the jump in Red's rating. Which songs are the most notable for you across her discography so far? (By the way, the date for Reputation needs to be corrected) |
The debut is her least "sophisticated" musically but also has a stripped down, relative emotional honesty that comes through on the best songs when she uses her voice just right (not over-extending her register past its limitations where it can become a bit superficial; Tim Mcgraw above all; Picture to Burn is a solid rowdier defiant song, others are more or less solid even if utterly unambitious, but basically keep it from a lower rating, such as Teardrops on My Guitar). In her best later works, she "hides" this limitation or supersedes it by more inventive melodic developments and Max Martin production effects that add emotional depth and vast repertoire's of rhythmic/melodic dexterity. But her debut is probably her most straightforwardly emotionally "real" even if her better albums take her life and personality to a much more vibrant, manic and exuberant artifice that is, overall, more compelling, and at their best, emotionally striking.
I actually think the first 1/2 of Reputation might be her most rhythmically/compositionally audacious (relatively speaking to her career, not "historically") approaching, maybe matching, the creativity of works like Lorde's Melodrama. If her vocals were on the same level, then it could maybe be a high-6 or even 6.5 or 7. Might not be completely out of the question for both Reputation and 1989 to get upgraded to 6-6.5 anyway. I've almost done it for 1989 a few times but a following listen or two always makes me doubt it just as much as I'm ready to go through with it. I need more time with Reputation but my most recent listen made me strongly consider 5.8-6.2.
I hardly know the song titles of Red, but would say State of Grace, I Knew You Were Trouble, and 22 are among the best, perhaps the best off the top of my head, mainly due to emotional honesty (State of Grace particularly), I Knew You Were Trouble's and 22's "catapulting" melodic and rhythmic dexterity and (relatively creative) developments. Other songs throughout the album feature these same qualities, just maybe not to the same degree, but still solid and consistent throughout.
She would probably be one of the great melodic artists of the 2010s if her vocals weren't usually mediocre and/or rather superficial. Her melodic invention is actually rather high for such a mainstream pop artist.
Much better examples of a vocalist that is also very youthful but more nuanced, individual and interesting personality-wise is Lorde ... or a limited vocalist like Madonna that, nevertheless, managed to convey a lot of mythic-persona, social-consciousness, chameleonic and personal psychology because she was so assured of her vision and how to evoke it ... Swift does best when the melodies are developed in interesting ways and strong/creative enough and the arrangements are colorful and animated and aligned to a persona that her voice suits best, such as "being swept up in the rush of color, vibrance and exuberance of life (and the anxiety of self-discovery)" like 1989 (though also with brimming emotional nuances in the in-between build-ups and bridges of the arrangements), or leaning to its darker side, with Reputation. |
I agree with your points about the debut, I just find the songs on the next two albums far more memorable. The debut runs out of steam very quickly after Teardrops until Our Song. Anyway, for Speak Now in particular, I can see why there might be a problem initially. I think it might help to relisten to just the first half for a while, paying attention to how effortlessly she makes what are ostensibly all "pop" songs with the same formulas so distinct from each other; the hooks and vocal performances are immediately distinguishable, subtly changing the mood from song to song. Consider, for instance, the opening 6-song run: how distinct the intros and verses for each of the pop songs Mine, Sparks Fly, Speak Now, and Mean are, and how the instrumentation and mood subtly changes while keeping the quality of the melodies intact throughout (this last part is important), as well as how they surround the "epic" ballads Back to December and Dear John, both of which are again very different from each other. The rest of the album is not quite at the same level but The Story of Us, Enchanted, and Haunted stand out if I remember correctly. As for Scaruffi, I'm guessing he paid attention to the lyrics considering he calls it her most "personal" album (which I can understand to be honest; this was clearly the peak of her country phase before Red incorporated pop influence on many of the songs).
Re: Reputation... what songs are you thinking of in particular? I mostly agree with the consensus that it's one of her worst albums, so I'm curious what stands out here for you.
Re: Red... considering I like Speak Now, I obviously think All Too Well is a stand-out. The songs you mentioned are indeed highlights; I'll throw in a good word for the title track as well, which perfectly captures the transitional nature of the album. The second half of the album doesn't hold up quite as well for me but Holy Ground, Sad Beautiful Tragic (almost slow-core?), and Begin Again also stood out to me, and Starlight is fun. I predict an increase in the score; it strikes me as a much more colourful and sonically diverse work than Reputation at least.
Wonder what you'll think of Lover and Folklore. Taylor Swift keeps re-inventing herself on every album, even if the albums themselves are usually uneven.
Miscellaneous stuff:
I predict that the rating for Dedicated will rise, at least quite a bit higher than Kiss. The production is fairly solid. It only suffers slightly in comparison to Emotion because Emotion was that good (which is still a better album than you're giving it credit for imo).
Also, there's some explaining you need to do for the Miley Cyrus rating. Plus, are there any particular tracks from that album I should revisit? With the jumps in the ratings of this and Reputation, I'm wondering if a 9/10 for Revolver is next.
Btw, an interesting rating from Scaruffi: a 6/10 for an album from k-pop group BTS. I'll be slightly surprised if it ends up that high for you too, but I'm definitely curious as to what you'll think of it. |
Re: Speak Now ... Yep, you're right, the rating will rise quite a bit. I revisited it today and it's probably a 5 or higher (minimum 4.5s) though I'll give it another go before deciding because a 6 seems within reach too. Just needed a little more familiarity and I was looking for strengths from Red and/or 1989/Reputation whereas Speak Now is more "perfectly honed" pop/country pop as opposed to the less predictable more "spontaneous/volatile" rhythmic-melodic strengths those exhibit ... thus not really seeing the strengths it was displaying in front of me.
Re: Bangerz ... It's all about the very honest, sickened decadence, the music constantly in a rather grotesque and wasted, sad aftermath of drugs and promiscuity, a slurring and tired and lonely and follied, angry demise in front of the world, performing almost past the point of caring, in a malaise, depression, and defiance that also has a lost sense of desperation to it. Multiple "defiant" tracks have a trance-like stupor, and other tracks that practically cry out for help (like the opener, like Wrecking Ball, like Drive...) and microcosms of those extremes inside most/all of the songs. It's basically music playing past the point where it was fun any more, in the sickness and debauchery and lows of her transgressions, inebriated and wasted and out of touch with what's going on to the point where she/they are just running on fumes and the will to keep standing despite all the debauchery and drugs (a desperate need to prove the world wrong, and carrying forth with that mantra anyway while also knowing she isn't and depressively loathing herself and her demons). It's kind of analogous to There's a Riot Goin' On in her discography (sort of). It's only my 2nd listen of it so I might end up being wrong with its rating once I get more and more familiar with it, but it was a massive leap from my first listen. The next one or two listens will probably be the most telling as the rating is still in a very volatile stage right now: I'm just moving it according to how I view it right now but it could just as easily move again. But anyway, I was pretty shocked, even considered 6.8+.
Re: Revolver ... Lol at it being some sort of threshold/benchmark, but okay
Re: Reputation ... If/when I revisit maybe I'll take a few notes. Going through too many albums right now including some 2.5s that lowered my intelligence for the time being.
Re: Dedicated ... My dance pop ratings are pretty commonly a bit lower early on... We'll see but I doubt as high as Emotion, so probably 4 maybe 4.5.
Re: Swift's later albums... more than likely about in line with Scaruffi's ratings but I'll check them out (haven't heard them yet).
Re: Swift debut ... Upon last revisit, Id add Cold as You as maybe its best or at least among them. Its probably the most ideally performed and honed including her voice.
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Last edited by AfterHours on 05/09/2021 17:39; edited 5 times in total
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