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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #211
- Posted: 03/15/2019 03:30
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sethmadsen wrote: | I'd like to say I've come to appreciate your efforts to crunch the difference between a 7 and a 7.5 or 7.5 and a 9.5. (7.5 being a start for a great album as opposed to my start for an average album) Up until recently I thought it a bit trifle. But the more music you listen to, the more important it is to decipher. I'm just saying this as I review some of my ratings that I'm seeing wait, that 90 and that 90 don't really equate. And maybe it really doesn't matter and it is trifle, but we'll see.
I'm finding my ratings being crunched between 70 and 100 because I didn't want to be so harsh. I had to actually dislike it instead of saying it's not for me, but I can see some merit. 60 had to have an element I purposely disliked and from there it was how much I hated it.
Now I'm seeing 50 and 60 really need to be used on average albums (I mean that's a 3 star... and a 55 really should be the average I suppose, being a 2.5). |
Just a little note: for me (at least "relative to average") 6.5 is probably the start of a great album (with mild misgivings) ... 7 being even better, superb/borderline extraordinary ... then at 7.5 becoming more and more "historically extraordinary/amazing" as the ratings rise. In that it will still stand out (as extraordinary) even relative to the greatest works (just not nearly as much as them of course), but the same characteristics are evident so to speak in that it's becoming more and more an artist and work pushing the creative envelope and aligning this to an expressiveness that is quite emotionally and/or conceptually impacful/compelling.
...in other words, perhaps just the usual "semantics" _________________ Best Classical
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #212
- Posted: 03/15/2019 04:06
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Someday (as in no need to waste your time unless you find it fun/helpful) I'd love to see examples of albums in a 3 to 8 range to get an idea of what you mean (from a selfish perspective... albums I'm more familiar with... but that's unrealistic). It's easy to say a number... harder to have a use case. But like I said, please don't waste time on this unless you want to. I mean everybody sees this differently... anyway I'm rambling.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #213
- Posted: 03/15/2019 18:42
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sethmadsen wrote: |
Someday (as in no need to waste your time unless you find it fun/helpful) I'd love to see examples of albums in a 3 to 8 range to get an idea of what you mean (from a selfish perspective... albums I'm more familiar with... but that's unrealistic). It's easy to say a number... harder to have a use case. But like I said, please don't waste time on this unless you want to. I mean everybody sees this differently... anyway I'm rambling. |
I suppose I could throw out some examples of 3s, 4s and so forth. Did you actually mean "8" or was it supposed to be "5" or "6"...? (I ask because I have lots of 7s, 7.5s, 8s listed already)
Maybe Ill add examples to my criteria page (if thats what youre getting at too) at some point but its generally not of much any interest for me to hone in on mediocre or worse albums, except as necessary or requested in a discussion, as a point of comparison, etc. I may go down to "5" but doubt Id feature lower than that on my page... Its not at all my general goal. For instance, I dont think I could ever go through much/most/all the 3s, 4s, 5s that Scaruffi does in order to find the higher rated works. So I'm very lucky he (by default) "does that part of the job for me". Its just too inefficient otherwise, and my life is way too busy (not sure how he finds the "will" to do so himself!)... I usually just check out the ones (Scaruffis 3s, 4s, 5s...) that get a lot of critical acclaim elsewhere just to verify for myself. But other than that its just not something I feel is worth my time and I dont have an interest in making lists that feature those as my interest lies first and foremost in promoting the greatest art.
Besides, probably any one serious about qualitative differential and making a concerted effort towards this, about finding the most amazing works, and that takes the time to acclimate themselves to the higher rated works, is very likely to see the difference for themselves sooner or later. Its not merely subjective (in the sense of being entirely "one sided") but usually very observable in terms of "expressed conviction" and "creativity" coming from the higher rated artist's work too, and I've found this always "wins" sooner or later in the end (as they are the factors that cause emotional impingement/significance for the listener and are what "depth" is made of, so the impression will be lasting/permanent once assimilated). As any relatively observant and intelligent individual has the mental capacity to acclimate to and assimilate any expression of any emotion/concept, they are likely to (sooner or later) see and feel the expressive difference coming from the higher rated artist's work for themselves (again, provided they know enough about what they are hearing to be able to do so, and then upon having enough familiarity with it). _________________ Best Classical
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #214
- Posted: 03/16/2019 01:02
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Good point... didn't think about your list (re:
I was just looking for a quick reference from your perspective (again nothing to waste your time with) on things below 7. It's like the Derrida party. Good pattern/bad pattern/deconstruction/binary opposition, etc. In otherwords, knowing what a 3 or 4 is, helps clarify a 7... for example my initial reaction for your 7/7.5's was like WTF... and then putting it in context makes the world of a difference.
Anyway something like this as a quick sample
9=
8=
7=
6=
5=
4=
3=
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #215
- Posted: 03/16/2019 05:31
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sethmadsen wrote: | Good point... didn't think about your list (re:
I was just looking for a quick reference from your perspective (again nothing to waste your time with) on things below 7. It's like the Derrida party. Good pattern/bad pattern/deconstruction/binary opposition, etc. In otherwords, knowing what a 3 or 4 is, helps clarify a 7... for example my initial reaction for your 7/7.5's was like WTF... and then putting it in context makes the world of a difference.
Anyway something like this as a quick sample
9=
8=
7=
6=
5=
4=
3= |
Okay maybe Ill add some more but for now Ill throw out a scale of misc works that are very catcy/melodic/"poppy"/lively from 3 to 10...
Just a taste of various recognizable entries, off the cuff...
3 = Justin Bieber, Monkees (also "2.5"), Ariana Grande, Please Please Me, Gerry & the Pacemakers, Crickets, Misc early Elvis albums,
3.5 = Britney Spears, early Beatles, early Beach Boys, N Sync, Hanson, Ed Sheeran, Misc Beyonce
4 = Miley Cyrus (except that "experimental" album which I havent rated yet but might actually be compelling), Justin Timberlake, Mariah Carey, Shania Twain, Backstreet Boys, Amy Grant, Christina Aguilera, Katy Perry, Lemonade
4.5 = Carly Rae Jepsen, Boyz 2 Men, Misc Everly Bros (and 5/10), Kacey Musgraves (might have higher potential), Let it Be, Yellow Sub, Taylor Swift,
5 = Hard Days Night, Lady Gaga, Misc James Brown, Surfin Safari, Various Chuck Berry, 1 or 2 Everly Bros, Rihanna's best 2, Beyonce (2013), Adele's 21
5.5 = Rubber Soul, Revolver, Snow Patrol, Coldplay Rush of Blood, Shins, Oasis' Morning Glory, Coldplay Viva La Vida
6 = Most of Madonna's best albums, White Album, Springsteen's 2nd tier, Muse, Coldplay Parachutes, Oasis' Definitely Maybe, Amy Winehouse Back to Black
6.5 = Soft Bulletin, Odyssey and Oracle, Thriller, Ray of Light, Magical Mystery Tour, Janet Jackson's 2 best Control and RN (Rhythm N might be 7), Arcade Fire Suburbs, Achtung Baby, Ziggy Stardust (close enough), Otis Blue, James Brown's Live at Apollo, Amy Winehouse Frank
7 = Sgt Pepper, Abbey Rd, Joshua Tree, Pet Sounds, Queen is Dead, Neon Bible, Innervisions, Cars' Heartbeat City, Rumours, Stands for Decibels, Picaresque, This Year's Model, Born in the USA, Graceland, Bridge Over Troubled Water, Lorde's Pure Heroine, Big Star's Radio City and Third, Dookie, BW's Smile
7.5 = Skylarking, Funeral, Taking Tiger Mtn, Green's White Soul, Deserter's Songs, Purple Rain (8?), Stone Roses, Return To Cookie Mountain, Dan Deacon's Bromst, Doolittle, ArchAndroid, Marry Me, Bellybutton, Forever Changes, Bach's 2 VCs, Bach's Orch Ste 2 & 3, Bach HC #5, Mozart's VC 3 & 4 & 5 (or 8?), Beethoven Symph 1 & 2 & 4 (maybe 8?), Misc Haydn Symphonies
8 = Almost all Mozart Piano Concertos 9 thru 27 (20 & 21 might be higher), Magnetic Fields' Charm of the Highway Strip, Soft Boys Underwater Moonlight, The Band s/t, Julian Cope's World Shut Your Mouth, Jagged Little Pill, Beethoven PCs 3 & 4 & 5, Tchaikovsky PC 1, Bach Brandenburg 3 & 5 & HC #1 and Dbl Violin Conc, Nyman PC, Rachmaninoff PC 2 & 3, Mendelssohn Octet, Mozart Symph 36, multiple Haydn Symphonies, Beethoven VS Kreutzer and Spring,
8.5 = Mozart 38, 39, 40 (or 9s?), Schubert Trout (or 9?), Beethoven's 6th & 8th (or 9?), The River, Pandora's Box Original Sin, Dvorak's 8th (9?), Schubert's 5th, Mendolssohn's 4th, Beethoven's Archduke, Vivaldi L'Estro Armonico, Dvorak PQ, Mozart Symph 35, various Haydn Symphonies (late period)
9 = In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Mozart's 41st, Beethoven 3rd & 5th & 7th, Four Seasons, Arcangelo Corelli Concerto Grosso Op. 6, Mozart Magic Flute, Mozart Marriage of Figaro, Dvorak's 7th and 9th, Tchaikovsky Symph 4 & 5, Brahms PQ
9.5 = Schubert's 9th, Don Giovanni
10 = Beethoven's 9th
(Some of those maybe dont perfectly follow the very catchy/melodic idea (ex: Pixies, Bach and Beethoven borderline/partial examples) _________________ Best Classical
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Last edited by AfterHours on 03/18/2019 06:31; edited 5 times in total
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #216
- Posted: 03/16/2019 05:49
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Oh wow, fantastic work mate!
I was half expecting just an album each was plenty, but I actually really appreciate the full listing here as it attacks the simplicity of a "number" to multiple examples, while not getting ambiguous (sometimes verbosity actually creates ambiguity).
Thanks! I think this creates a more full picture, so much appreciated. I think I'm Beginning to See the Light.
This is a point of view I can completely agree with now, whereas before I was only seeing half the picture. Seriously, thank you for building that understanding.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #217
- Posted: 03/16/2019 06:41
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sethmadsen wrote: | Oh wow, fantastic work mate!
I was half expecting just an album each was plenty, but I actually really appreciate the full listing here as it attacks the simplicity of a "number" to multiple examples, while not getting ambiguous (sometimes verbosity actually creates ambiguity).
Thanks! I think this creates a more full picture, so much appreciated. I think I'm Beginning to See the Light.
This is a point of view I can completely agree with now, whereas before I was only seeing half the picture. Seriously, thank you for building that understanding. |
Yeah no prob, you're welcome!
Re: Beginning to See the Light ... VU and Nico is still better _________________ Best Classical
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #218
- Posted: 03/21/2019 06:43
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AfterHours wrote: | sethmadsen wrote: | Oh wow, fantastic work mate!
I was half expecting just an album each was plenty, but I actually really appreciate the full listing here as it attacks the simplicity of a "number" to multiple examples, while not getting ambiguous (sometimes verbosity actually creates ambiguity).
Thanks! I think this creates a more full picture, so much appreciated. I think I'm Beginning to See the Light.
This is a point of view I can completely agree with now, whereas before I was only seeing half the picture. Seriously, thank you for building that understanding. |
Yeah no prob, you're welcome!
Re: Beginning to See the Light ... VU and Nico is still better |
@ Seth
Just in case my really bad pun was missed or misunderstood (and you know its a REALLY bad one if you find yourself explaining it! )... "VU and Nico is still better" was a joking reference to your preference for their self-titled 3rd album which includes the track "Im Beginning to See the Light".
Sorry, Ill leave now _________________ Best Classical
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #219
- Posted: 03/22/2019 01:39
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No worries. I got that and laughed actually, but failed to reply and relay my response.
I figured you'd get my dumb joke.
I suppose as much as 50% of the misunderstanding is the context of a statistic. It's like there's lies, damned lies, and statistics (rating something a 7.5 and how that relates to other albums). Now that I understand your full statistic I respect your point of view even more. (clarity, I already did, even if I wanted clarification/at times challenged it in I hope you saw a friendly way).
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #220
- Posted: 03/22/2019 03:00
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sethmadsen wrote: |
No worries. I got that and laughed actually, but failed to reply and relay my response.
I figured you'd get my dumb joke.
I suppose as much as 50% of the misunderstanding is the context of a statistic. It's like there's lies, damned lies, and statistics (rating something a 7.5 and how that relates to other albums). Now that I understand your full statistic I respect your point of view even more. (clarity, I already did, even if I wanted clarification/at times challenged it in I hope you saw a friendly way). |
Yeah, I see what you mean.
Its pretty safe to say that roughly 7-7.5 on my scale equates to most others' 10s. I think most people seem to rate anything 7 thru 10 (roughly) all as "10s" instead of detailing the variance/intervals all the way up or spending enough time to figure them out, and/or just not caring one way or another.
There is also the point that the more one experiences the highest ratings the more unmistakable they become and the more separated (from the 5s, 5.5s 6s, 6.5s, 7s...) they then seem.
Im not totally sure I got what you mean by "saw a friendly way". Do you mean "nicer" less strict ratings (such as everything above 7 are all 10s?). _________________ Best Classical
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