Remove one from the top 100, and add one. Which do you pick?

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TheHutts



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  • #41
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 22:31
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Is it too simplistic to say that classical music was largely the domain of the elite and folk music was the music of the masses?

And does post-WWII popular music fill both of these functions to some extent - some of it's for the masses and some of it's for the well educated elite? Or do jazz and classical still fill the elite niche?
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dmercado



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Age: 32
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  • #42
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 22:55
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TheHutts wrote:
And does post-WWII popular music fill both of these functions to some extent - some of it's for the masses and some of it's for the well educated elite? Or do jazz and classical still fill the elite niche?


I've always had the impression that jazz was a music almost exclusive to the urban centers, but not exclusive to the elite since it was widely popular among the growing middle class.
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TheHutts



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  • #43
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 23:15
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dmercado wrote:
I've always had the impression that jazz was a music almost exclusive to the urban centers, but not exclusive to the elite since it was widely popular among the growing middle class.


I was more thinking in terms of current jazz listeners.

It's a bit of a weird argument since elite for classical music listeners 100 years ago probably means financially elite. While it's a generalisation, jazz and classical listeners today are probably largely among the intellectual elite.

I'm just trying to unpack why the best ever albums chart ends up middle-brow, while a classical chart is often high-brow.
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HazeyTwilight
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  • #44
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 23:18
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How about we remove all albums from the top 100 and replace them with this gem here:


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LordMark



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  • #45
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 23:29
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Master of Puppets is highly influential, but thrash metal is really not my cup of tea. Replace it with Lateralus or Sunbather.
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dmercado



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  • #46
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 23:40
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TheHutts wrote:
I'm just trying to unpack why the best ever albums chart ends up middle-brow, while a classical chart is often high-brow.


I think it just comes down to what people value in their music. It guides them into the type of music they listen to. Somebody who values lyricism is more likely to listen to hip-hop than they are classical music and rank their favorite albums based on that. I really care about elicited emotions, more so than I do composition complexity, for instance, so I tend to listen to music with vocal performances or solo instrumentals.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad



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  • #47
  • Posted: 03/23/2017 01:04
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My brother studied music and more or less has stated that jazz would be dead if not studied. Same with classical music.

Jazz used to be from the uneducated inner city. Now it is often from those that study music.

These of course are oversimplified statements, but have some truth to them.
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AfterHours



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  • #48
  • Posted: 03/23/2017 01:48
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Both the giants of Classical and Jazz tend to feature far greater, more creative and musically knowledgeable composers, than much of what tends to most often rank highly in Rock lists. Someone raised on these, so to speak, is going to become far more acclimated to the nuances and layers of emotion/concept that constitute the greatest masterpieces than those who are not. Someone raised on ideas such as "Ziggy Stardust, Rubber Soul (or whatever) is a staggering masterpiece", and doesn't branch out further or much further than this, is much less likely to acclimate to the emotional/conceptual depths and level of creativity in, for instance, Beethoven's late String Quartets, or Mingus' Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (etc) though could certainly do so if that becomes their pursued effort and purpose. In my opinion, it is actually a disservice to the person to be raised on (in my opinion) the "false" (even though fundamentally subjective) ideas that so many undeserving Rock artists/albums are masterpieces of the genre. There are many unheralded Rock albums that are much more emotionally/conceptually staggering and creative. Also, there is so much more to Mozart's masterpieces than, for instance, The Beatles, who to some could seem on the surface, similarly adept at melody and enthusiasm, but who scope far lesser depths of emotion/concept/creativity in their compositions. Of course, they also weren't trying to anyway (not that they could have), so it probably does come down to what a person wants out of their music/artistic experiences, how serious do they take it, and what-have-you.
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AfterHours



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  • #49
  • Posted: 03/23/2017 04:39
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TheHutts wrote:
Is it too simplistic to say that classical music was largely the domain of the elite and folk music was the music of the masses?

And does post-WWII popular music fill both of these functions to some extent - some of it's for the masses and some of it's for the well educated elite? Or do jazz and classical still fill the elite niche?


Seems pretty accurate to me, though there are (as I'm sure you know) exceptions to the rule.
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AfterHours



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  • #50
  • Posted: 03/23/2017 04:42
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sethmadsen wrote:
My brother studied music and more or less has stated that jazz would be dead if not studied. Same with classical music.

Jazz used to be from the uneducated inner city. Now it is often from those that study music.

These of course are oversimplified statements, but have some truth to them.


I agree. And Jazz has been merging with Classical (and vice-versa) more than ever, especially since the 90's but really started progressing in the 60's. Now many Jazz works are practically interchangeable with Classical.
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