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benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?
Age: 27
Location: California
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- #21
- Posted: 03/20/2017 16:18
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| Fischman wrote: | Out? How to pick? So many dreadful examples from which to choose. I'll just start close to the top and toss Beatles' White.
In? Even harder! So many great but underrated albums. Toss up between Rush/s Moving Pictures and Dream Theater's Images and Word. For this exercise, I'll go with the DT album. |
Can't make up your mind on if you're a music elitist or a Rush fan, huh?
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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- #22
- Posted: 03/20/2017 16:22
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| benpaco wrote: |
Can't make up your mind on if you're a music elitist or a Rush fan, huh? |
It's not like those two things are mutually exclusive 
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revolver94
professional dilettante
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Location: DC suburb
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- #23
- Posted: 03/20/2017 16:22
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| Tha1ChiefRocka wrote: | | Probably replace My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy with Late Registration. Runaway is my favorite Kanye song, but I still think that Late Registration is a better album. Also, it does not have a feature from Nicki Minaj. |
lol ok.
remove dark side of the moon because it is boring as hell
replace it with ds2 by future because........ there is no trap in the top 100 rn
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dmercado
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: Cambridge, MA
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paladisiac
= music
Gender: Male
Location: Denver
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #26
- Posted: 03/21/2017 03:13
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It's all subjective of course but I can't deny how flabbergasting it can seem when, of all the mediocrity on that list, you/someone comes up with such an astonishing, revolutionary masterpiece like Loveless as THE one that needs the axe. No offense, it's just your opinion, but... 
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #27
- Posted: 03/21/2017 03:39
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| sethmadsen wrote: | | AfterHours wrote: | | sethmadsen wrote: | To be honest with ya'll, I kind of trust the overall chart more than anyone's opinion.
Why?
Well, it "mathematically" is the greatest albums. It's the collection of albums from so many view points and perspectives and life experiences who have agreed are the greatest. They had the biggest cultural impact. They meant something to so many people. And yeah there's that sales=popularity/not all artists are equally well distributed, etc. but I think that is oversimplified. Most less known albums/artists usually are a novelty and wear off quickly for me and maybe most of the time, the lack of distribution really is because it isn't that great. Those on the overall - even if I don't agree with them - usually are there for a reason.
Minus AC/DC and Guns N' Roses - they belong on a greatest singles ever chart maybe, but definitely not album material. But a holistic album is my litmus test... and obviously isn't everybody's. |
I don't particularly disagree with the gist of what youre saying but keep in mind that in many cases across the history of art the greatest were far from the most popular or well known, both critically and in the eyes of the general public, within their lifetime or so. I guarantee you that most of this overall chart will be considered far less relevant in 50+ years, and several within 10-20 or less. |
Good point. I can't remember musicians now, but I have heard of other musicians bringing classical musicians who were never popular to life, but I really can't think of a true Van Gogh for music... can you? I mean sure Mozart died poor, but i think that wasn't because he lost popularity, rather he was bad with money. |
Off the top of my head, here are some cases of little recognition during their existence (or at least during the prime of their careers) only to be greatly acclaimed by many afterwards. Rock/Jazz artists such as: The Velvet Underground, Captain Beefheart, Ornette Coleman, Albert Ayler, Carla Bley, Faust, Robert Wyatt, (has been gradually growing in acclaim for years but at one point was virtually unknown and is still fairly obscure), Cecil Taylor (reviled by many critics and the jazz establishment for years), Sun Ra (similar), Tim Buckley (gradually gaining acclaim but his far inferior son -- though still very talented -- is still more widely acclaimed), Pere Ubu... there are several examples on my "Greatest Albums of All Time" list, plus many that will likely join them in the future as more critics get acclimated to them, survey history and learn who the most striking/revolutionary were, and champion them as such for the public. Also as the art form advances, the most striking/revolutionary artists that led such advancement, tend to become more consumable than they were before. Going further back to artists that have become the most acclaimed in history, during their lifetimes those such as Buxtehude were considered greater than Bach, Hummel greater than Beethoven, Schubert was little known and hardly acclaimed outside of a small group of peers, Mozart's best pieces were his least understood and least accepted (except by some peers), Beethoven's late works were considered incomprehensible (even though they were his best and now universally regarded as among the most incredible music ever composed) -- Etc.
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revolver94
professional dilettante
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Location: DC suburb
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- #28
- Posted: 03/21/2017 04:26
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yeah even IF acclaim was pretty much always correlated with the value of music, the BEA chart is hardly a) representative of the general population and the music they like, its a fairly random sample, and while a sample that listens to music more than most, still hardly representative of even all "music experts" (as you can tell by some of the bad albums in the top 100, har har) and, b) because it's based on accumulating points and not an average rating, doesn't actually represent acclaim, but popularity (at which point, if popularity is what you want to measure, you should just look at the best selling albums of all time - and of course some of those will overlap with BEA's list - but i feel like thats not what youd consider the "mathematically best" albums either, so then we're back to acclaim).
what you said was very good, afterhours -- im reading proust right now and he said that exact thing about beethoven (not with regards to hummel, just that he became better understood with time)
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #29
- Posted: 03/21/2017 05:10
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I agree with everything afterhours said and revolver94.
I feel like out of all your examples, The Velvet Underground is probably best fitting to what I was looking for. To me at least I feel like their impact on culture/the breadth of their influence is just as great as The Beatles, yet in their time they weren't as distributed. And I'm not just talking about popularity for the sake of popularity, I'm talking about impact on culture/breadth of influence/lasting impact on musical history. I think that was already understood, but wanted to make it clear.
And I knew that musicians old and new sometimes don't get attention until much later, but a true Van Gogh instance (where they go from not being known at all, to probably the most known) really is applicable to The Velvet Underground.
I will say that a few artists you mentioned are still a bit niche, but maybe that's just me and my limited understanding of the world of music.
Thing is, Beethoven, Mozart (don't know about Schubert) performed/directed at the Musikverein in Vienna - kind of sign you "made" it and are a cultural impact. Händel was also in his realm of impact in London/across Europe.
I mean I know Beethoven wasn't liked by some because he was one of the first (the first?) to write music that meant something to him, not something nobility requested from him. So I'm sure that upset many.
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eyezayzay
Gender: Male
Age: 34
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- #30
- Posted: 03/21/2017 06:38
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Cut Appetite for Destruction for Lonerism.
Even though it's #101, LOL.
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