ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana

Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
CA Dreamin



Gender: Male
Location: LA
United States

  • #1
  • Posted: 03/21/2017 09:44
  • Post subject: ADP #6 In Utero by Nirvana
  • Reply with quote

Nevermind by Nirvana was quite the unexpected hit. According to Wikipedia, Nevermind was only expected to sell 50,000 copies. We already know how incorrect that turned out. Because suddenly depressing music was fashionable. Suddenly the media was following Kurt Cobain everywhere he went and publicizing his personal life, things he probably wanted kept private, like his heroin addiction and marital problems. We also already know how much he hated this media attention (or claimed to). In addition, he was under pressure from the record company to deliver Nevermind Part 2. Furthermore, his own personal life changed as a result of marrying Courtney Love and having a daughter. So it's obvious by the time of In Utero's recording, Kurt Cobain was in a much different place than he was during Nevermind's recording. Let's examine the tracks:

1. Serve the Servants (10/10)

This song is mindblowing. It begins with a catchy guitar hook. The opening lyrics state his frame of mind:

"Teenage angst has paid off well
Now I'm bored and old
Self-appointed judges judge
more than they have sold"

Wow, so right off the bat Kurt was distancing himself from Nirvana's signature song and album, while criticizing the record company - the record company who was frustrated with Kurt for delaying Nevermind's follow-up, and because the sound and vibe of In Utero wasn't similar enough to Nevermind. However Like Teen Spirit, which opened Nevermind, Serve the Servants is very catchy and sounds like it could've been a very radio-friendly single. Thus, lyrically he was distancing Nirvana from Teen Spirit, while musically they were in the same boat as Teen Spirit. Contradictory? But then in the second verse, the song went in a different direction:

"I tried hard to have a father
but instead I had a dad.
I just want you to know that I
don't hate you anymore."

Now Kurt addressed his father, whom he must've had a rocky relationship with given his parent's divorce when he was little. Perhaps this was an expression to be a better father than his was. After all, Kurt's and Courtney's daughter Frances was born in the summer of '92, an infant during the recording of In Utero. Still it seemed odd to tackle multiple subjects in the same song.

2. Scentless Apprentice (10/10)

This song was apparently about a book Kurt read. But to me, this also song took Kurt's frustration with the media and the record label to another level. Unlike Serve the Servants, Scentless Apprentice is not radio-friendly. Its riffs and vocals were raw and fierce, while Kurt's jarring badass screams drowned everything out during the chorus: "GO AWAY, GET AWAY, GET AWAY."

3. Heart-Shaped Box (9/10)

A very moving song with ambiguous lyrics. There are several valid interpretations of the lyrics. But two things were certain. #1 The song was a reference to a woman's reproductive organs, which was very common in grunge music. #2 The song was clearly mainstream-friendly.

4. Rape Me (10/10)

However this was not mainstream-friendly. Not in the least bit, well maybe except for the opening riff that resembles that of Smells Like Teen Spirit. But the lyrics? What the hell? Kurt yelled "Rape Me" how many times? Regardless of the song's meaning, it seemed like 'Rape Me' was Kurt Cobain's way of giving the finger to the record label and to mainstream music in general. It's as if he was saying "Oh so you all enjoy angry/depressing music now? You like Lithium and Polly huh, well how do you like this?: 'RAPE ME, RAPE ME, RAPE ME, RAPE ME, RAPE ME, RAPE ME...'"

5. Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge On Seattle (7/10)

Kurt saw a similarity between himself and actress Frances Farmer, both angry, depressed, and had trouble fitting in. And Kurt named his daughter Frances. But what did he mean by "have her revenge on Seattle?"

6. Dumb (7/10)

To me, Dumb was about inability to fit in and using drugs as an escape, relevant themes to an angry teenager. However, from the opening lines of Serve the Servants, you might think he would avoid this topic on In Utero. The drug references in the song that made him question himself: Did drugs make Kurt dumb or happy?

7. Very Ape (6/10)

Who knows what Kurt was talking about in this song? Who cares? It's a fun song, even if nothing special.

8. Milk It (9/10)

Once again, I'm not sure what he was talking about in this song. But the vocal and musical shifts in this song were profound, which makes it beautiful. It reminds me of Scentless Apprentice in terms of these shifts. In both songs, Kurt's voice sounded nervously restrained one moment, then all out the next, bellowing at the top
of his lungs.

9. Pennyroyal Tea (8/10)

A pleasant melody that covered topics of abortion, depression, and Kurt's stomach pains. Or only 1-2 of these topics if you prefer. Nevertheless, Pennyroyal Tea is a great song that feels like an appropriate way to follow the angsty Milk It.

10. Radio-Friendly Unit Shifter (7/10)

Radio-friendliness is a point I keep bringing up with these songs (for reasons I'll get to in the discussion area). To me, this track was Kurt being sarcastic by singing from the perspective of the song itself that wanted to be radio-friendly, but clearly couldn't due its nonsensical lyrics and non-traditional structure. It's a satirical song that reinforced one of the album's themes of criticizing mainstream music. And in that regard, it certainly succeeded.

11. Tourette's (6/10)

This is another song I feel criticized polished mainstream music, by simply spewing words and lyrics in an odd pace/pattern, much like a symptom of the syndrome after which the song is named.

12. All Apologies (10/10)

Beautiful song and melody. It certainly sounded like Kurt had found some sort of inner peace (maybe even some fucked-up form of happiness?), which yes could be analyzed as a foreshadowing of his suicide.

Overall In Utero is pretty freaking awesome. Track for track, it may not be quite as good as Nevermind but it's pretty damn close. But I find it a more fascinating listen for how it always seemed to do a 180 from one track to the next. Of course anger, depression, and drug use were constant themes as they were on Nirvana's previous work. But In Utero was also clearly about Kurt's reaction to fame, his pressure to follow up Nevermind, and also his new look on life since becoming a husband and father.

Discussion topics:

If your interpretations of the songs are different than mine, do share.

On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics? Was it simply a way of announcing how he's a different person from the Nevermind sessions, or are the topics somehow connected?

Does All Apologies foreshadow his suicide? Personally I'm not sure, due to the long time between the song's writing and his suicide. But if you think certainly yes or no, please explain.

Nobody expected the singles of Nevermind to become the radio sensations they did because by pre-1991 standards, they weren't radio-friendly...too dark, too distorted, too heavy, too angry, too depressing, etc. But as it turned out, those songs, along with several other 1991 hits, helped change what radio-friendliness meant. With that in mind, was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album? Unlike Nevermind, where in hindsight nearly every track could have been a radio single, In Utero greatly wavered between the conventional and the unconventional, such as tracks 2, 4, 8, 10, and 11. But why are these songs juxtaposed to radio-friendly songs like Heart-Shaped Box, Dumb, and All Apologies?

Furthermore, In Utero constantly jumping around in mood, theme, and song structure can be a valid criticism - it's inconsistent. But perhaps that's the beauty of it because it reflected the personality/mindset of its artist? As an album, how do you feel about it?

Kurt, with In Utero were you embracing, rejecting, or trying to redefine mainstream rock? Were you happy, depressed, or just plain dumb? What were you trying to say, Kurt? Oh well, he can't answer us, so we're left to wonder, to discuss.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Graeme2



Gender: Male
Location: The Upside Down
United Kingdom

  • #2
  • Posted: 03/21/2017 13:58
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
I think he was very disillusioned, conflicted and maybe confused when it comes to this record. I remember leading up to the release of this record that stuff I was reading about what the record would sound like, had me thinking it was going to be recorded on a 4 track with loads of noise and really lo fi. I was expecting a cross between the first pavement album and psychocandy. So when it came out it sounded quite polished to me. It probably reflects how mixed up his mind was at the time.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
albumceleste





  • #3
  • Posted: 03/21/2017 23:06
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Nice job there. Thumbs up.

My two cents in a hurry:

Quote:
If your interpretations of the songs are different than mine, do share.

I alwaysheard a very clear denounce against record label contracts in Pennyroyal Tea (penny royalty/ stealing the life inside of me)

In Rape me I feel he was saying "so you want SLTS again and again? There you have it". I think that way from the SLTS upside-down riff and the song structure.

Quote:
On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics?

I think a stream of consioussness flow and fragmented lyrics are very common. Many times hiding real meaning under unconsiouss disguises and many times meaning nothing at all.

Quote:
was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?

I was a teenager when this album came out. It wasn't anything unexpected. The thing weas all over the Mtv 24/7
It wasn't the thing mom&dad would listen to but it wasn't anti-mainstream at all. It was just "alt".

Quote:
As an album, how do you feel about it?

The highs are on par with Nevermind. The lows don't. As you said I feel it lacks consistency.

It's an album I loved but now seems completely distant from me. Why? well because it's an "angst" album. And angst -in many cases- dissipates as you grow older, maybe a tiny little wiser and definitely boring as hell.
Unless you shot yourself in the meantime, like Kurt did.
Back to top
Tha1ChiefRocka
Yeah, well hey, I'm really sorry.



Location: Kansas
United States

  • #4
  • Posted: 03/21/2017 23:52
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
I think something people rarely take into account when talking differences between In Utero and Nevermind are the producers. What do you think the Butch Vig vs. Steve Albini difference is? How did the recording influence the even more direct nature of the album?
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Daydreamer





  • #5
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 00:44
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
The first couple of songs are more radio-friendly but as then the album progresses more and more into a dissonant and loud mess of the last couple of songs before the beautiful All Apologies. Definitely a weirder album than Nevermind, I agree that tha highs are on par with it but the lows drag it down a bit too much for me to consider it better than Nevermind.
Also, I disagree with Dumb score being that low, for me it's one of the absolute highlights of the album.
_________________
All time

2000's
1990's
1980's
1970's
1960's
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
CA Dreamin



Gender: Male
Location: LA
United States

  • #6
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 19:43
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Daydreamer wrote:
Also, I disagree with Dumb score being that low, for me it's one of the absolute highlights of the album.

It's fine to disagree. Dumb is good, but for me it's overplayed, and other tracks stand out more. Any other thoughts?

albumceleste wrote:
I always heard a very clear denounce against record label contracts in Pennyroyal Tea (penny royalty/ stealing the life inside of me)

Interesting. I never thought of the song as Penny Royalty, but that totally reinforces the element of record label frustration throughout the album. Thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate the song more now. From what I understand, Kurt was earning a fair amount of money, but little compared to the tens of millions DGC was earning. I could be mistaken though?

albumceleste wrote:
Quote:
On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics?

I think a stream of consciousness flow and fragmented lyrics are very common. Many times hiding real meaning under unconscious disguises and many times meaning nothing at all.

I buy that. I don't think there is any connection between the different topics of the song, except for the chorus lyric that joins them: "That legendary divorce is such a bore"

albumceleste wrote:
The highs are on par with Nevermind. The lows don't. As you said I feel it lacks consistency.

I meant it lacks consistency in theme. I don't think it lacks consistency in quality. There's a couple tracks you could call filler but it's pretty freaking awesome from start to finish.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
CA Dreamin



Gender: Male
Location: LA
United States

  • #7
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 19:58
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
albumceleste wrote:
Quote:
was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?

I was a teenager when this album came out. It wasn't anything unexpected. The thing was all over the Mtv 24/7
It wasn't the thing mom&dad would listen to but it wasn't anti-mainstream at all. It was just "alt".

Graeme2 wrote:
I remember leading up to the release of this record that stuff I was reading about what the record would sound like, had me thinking it was going to be recorded on a 4 track with loads of noise and really lo fi. I was expecting a cross between the first pavement album and psychocandy. So when it came out it sounded quite polished to me. It probably reflects how mixed up his mind was at the time.

I totally appreciate hearing from users old enough to remember when it came out (I was a little kid at the time). In Utero still sounds less polished than Nevermind, which Kurt wanted. But agreed, it didn't end up being a complete reversal from Nevermind.

So why wasn't In Utero 'recorded on a 4 track with loads of noise and really lo fi?' Was there a compromise between the record label and the band? Did it have something to with producer, Steve Albini, which brings up this user's question?
Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
I think something people rarely take into account when talking differences between In Utero and Nevermind are the producers. What do you think the Butch Vig vs. Steve Albini difference is? How did the recording influence the even more direct nature of the album?

Or did have to do with artistic vision? Or maybe to some extent, money?
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
souplipton



Gender: Male
Location: Toronto
Canada

  • #8
  • Posted: 03/22/2017 22:32
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
StreetSpirit wrote:
On Serve the Servants, why did Kurt jump between different topics? Was it simply a way of announcing how he's a different person from the Nevermind sessions, or are the topics somehow connected?


The line about "self-appointed judges" could possibly be about the media. Cobain was under a lot of scrutiny by the media since the release of Nevermind, The media investigated his personal life, including the divorce of his parents, which he references at the end of the song's chorus. The investigation into his parent's divorce would link the earlier lyrics to the lines about his father.

However, even without this link, I don't think it's that odd for him to be discussing two subjects in the song. Both subjects are something he wanted to distance himself from despite the relationship being forced on him, namely, his father and his record company. As well, his lyrics often don't focus on one topics, take Pennyroyal Tea for example.

StreetSpirit wrote:
Does All Apologies foreshadow his suicide? Personally I'm not sure, due to the long time between the song's writing and his suicide. But if you think certainly yes or no, please explain.


I don't think it specifically foreshadows his suicide anymore than any other song. He wrote the song long before his suicide, so I don't really think it has any specific message on the topic.

StreetSpirit wrote:
Was In Utero a mainstream or anti-mainstream album?


In Utero definitely wasn't a mainstream album. While I do believe that Nirvana was purposely going for a less mainstream sound on this album compared to Nevermind, I wouldn't call it anti-mainstream. It's definitely not Metal Machine Music, but it's not pop-rock either.

StreetSpirit wrote:
Furthermore, In Utero constantly jumping around in mood, theme, and song structure can be a valid criticism - it's inconsistent. But perhaps that's the beauty of it because it reflected the personality/mindset of its artist? As an album, how do you feel about it?


Cobain was a big fan of the Pixies, and the eclectic mix of styles on In Utero reminds me somewhat of 1989's Doolittle. The variety of music on both albums is to me not a weakness of the album, but a strength. In Utero is my favourite Nirvana album, more willing to explore different aspects of the band's sound and more willing to take risks than the rest of the band's output.

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
I think something people rarely take into account when talking differences between In Utero and Nevermind are the producers. What do you think the Butch Vig vs. Steve Albini difference is? How did the recording influence the even more direct nature of the album?


I think a lot of the difference in sound between the two albums can be traced to the change in producer. Butch Vig recorded Nevermind with more overdubbing, laying down multiple guitar tracks and double-tracking of vocals, giving it a cleaner sound. Steve Albini's music tends to be harsher and rawer, as he comes from a backgroup of hardcore punk and noise rock. His production technique also differs, as he records the band playing together, rather than separately. This produces less separation between the instrument tracks, and gives the music a feel closer to a live performance.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
CA Dreamin



Gender: Male
Location: LA
United States

  • #9
  • Posted: 03/23/2017 20:25
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
souplipton wrote:
The line about "self-appointed judges" could possibly be about the media. Cobain was under a lot of scrutiny by the media since the release of Nevermind, The media investigated his personal life, including the divorce of his parents, which he references at the end of the song's chorus. The investigation into his parent's divorce would link the earlier lyrics to the lines about his father.

So 'self-appointed judges' are both record label and the press. I can see that. I can totally see that.

souplipton wrote:
I don't think it specifically foreshadows his suicide anymore than any other song. He wrote the song long before his suicide, so I don't really think it has any specific message on the topic.

I don't think so either, but some fans have a theory. If anybody on BEA has a theory, I'd love to hear it.

souplipton wrote:
In Utero definitely wasn't a mainstream album. While I do believe that Nirvana was purposely going for a less mainstream sound on this album compared to Nevermind, I wouldn't call it anti-mainstream. It's definitely not Metal Machine Music, but it's not pop-rock either. Cobain was a big fan of the Pixies, and the eclectic mix of styles on In Utero reminds me somewhat of 1989's Doolittle. The variety of music on both albums is to me not a weakness of the album, but a strength. In Utero is my favourite Nirvana album, more willing to explore different aspects of the band's sound and more willing to take risks than the rest of the band's output.

I agree In Utero's mainstream and anti-mainstream tendencies, coupled with eclectic song structures, are a definitely a strength. What do you mean by taking risks?

souplipton wrote:
I think a lot of the difference in sound between the two albums can be traced to the change in producer. Butch Vig recorded Nevermind with more overdubbing, laying down multiple guitar tracks and double-tracking of vocals, giving it a cleaner sound. Steve Albini's music tends to be harsher and rawer, as he comes from a backgroup of hardcore punk and noise rock. His production technique also differs, as he records the band playing together, rather than separately. This produces less separation between the instrument tracks, and gives the music a feel closer to a live performance.

I don't know much about the the producers and their styles. But I do recall when I watched the VH1 documentary about the making of Nevermind, Kurt Cobain initially didn't want to double-track his voice. Butch Vig had to talk him into it. And what's funny is Butch talked Kurt into it by reminding him The Beatles used double-tracked vocals in most of their songs. That won the argument because Kurt was a huge Beatles fan with pop-rock sensibility. Flash-forward to the In Utero sessions, where Kurt wanted to distance the band from Nevermind, and Steve Albini made a logical choice as a producer based on how you describe his past/recording techniques. Still, pop-rock sensibility came through on tracks like Serve the Servants, Heart-Shaped Box, and especially Dumb.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Hayden




Location: CDMX
Canada

  • #10
  • Posted: 03/23/2017 20:40
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Not sure how I missed this.

I haven't given In Utero a full listen in what must be over two years now... might give it a spin tonight and get back to this.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3


 

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum
Album of the day (#517): In Utero by ... albummaster Music
Album of the day (#989): In Utero by ... albummaster Music
Album of the day (#2949): In Utero by... albummaster Music
Album of the day (#4132): In Utero by... albummaster Music
Album of the day (#1818): In Utero by... albummaster Music

 
Back to Top