Why don't you listen to much (if any) Classical Music?

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Poll: Why don't you listen to much (if any) Classical Music?
But, I do! I love Classical Music!
38%
 38%  [14]
Rock artist(s) such as _____ surpassed the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc
8%
 8%  [3]
Jazz artist(s) such as _____ surpassed the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc
5%
 5%  [2]
I've tried and I just don't like/don't 'get' Classical Music
16%
 16%  [6]
I find Classical Music too daunting and just don't know where to start, so I stick to what I'm familiar with
30%
 30%  [11]
Total Votes : 36

Author Message
AfterHours



Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #1
  • Posted: 04/06/2017 23:20
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This site has many users that are very interested and invested in listening to, discussing and discovering music, and presumably want the BEST music has to offer, so I am curious why there seems to be so little attention given to Classical Music around here. Or maybe I am mistaken and there are all sorts of "closet fans" hidden in the shadows and corners of this site?
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AfterHours



Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #2
  • Posted: 04/06/2017 23:23
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If you have a different response than what's in the poll, please submit below. Very curious about your answers!

Also, I would be interested to know which Rock/Jazz artists (if any) people feel have surpassed the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc -- if you don't mind potential (civilized) discussion on the matter.
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carpents




United States

  • #3
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 00:05
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AfterHours wrote:
If you have a different response than what's in the poll, please submit below. Very curious about your answers!


I have always loved classical music, but it's just not as immediate as other types of music. I listen to it some, but not nearly as much as other styles of music.

I am *almost* in the "there's too much" camp, but I had a good bit already. There is a thread worth its weight in gold on classical music pointing out the best recordings -- the recording quality is often the hardest for me.

AfterHours wrote:
Also, I would be interested to know which Rock/Jazz artists (if any) people feel have surpassed the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc -- if you don't mind potential (civilized) discussion on the matter.


As much as certain music moves me, it would be complete folly to think that any musician has passed Beethoven.
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Tha1ChiefRocka
Yeah, well hey, I'm really sorry.



Location: Kansas
United States

  • #4
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 00:17
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I have made a short list of classical music + I am going to expand my top albums further to incorporate classical and jazz albums.

There are plenty of people who are just as talented or more talented than composers. You mentioned Bach, who was a virtuoso on the harpsichord and organ. His most famous compositions are usually for a solo instrument, so others like Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, or Paco De Lucia that composed for guitar should be equally as talented.

As for Mozart and Beethoven, I would compare the ability to write a motif to creating a killer pop chorus. Artists like Billy Corgan who have recorded almost every instrument on an album would also be just as impressive as writing for different sections in a symphony.
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AfterHours



Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #5
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 01:51
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carpents wrote:
I have always loved classical music, but it's just not as immediate as other types of music. I listen to it some, but not nearly as much as other styles of music.

I am *almost* in the "there's too much" camp, but I had a good bit already. There is a thread worth its weight in gold on classical music pointing out the best recordings -- the recording quality is often the hardest for me.

As much as certain music moves me, it would be complete folly to think that any musician has passed Beethoven.


Thank you for your reply. The thread you are referring to, is it my own "best recordings" list I've been plugging away at? Here: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...mp;start=0

Or is there another one somewhere?

I would agree that, in general, Rock/Jazz artists, have not approached Beethoven's works -- except the occasional masterpiece -- but certainly not to the same extent: the sheer number of them from one composer.

Beethoven has 100 works by himself that would top most of what's on the Overall Chart here.
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AfterHours



Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

  • #6
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 02:22
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Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
I have made a short list of classical music + I am going to expand my top albums further to incorporate classical and jazz albums.

There are plenty of people who are just as talented or more talented than composers. You mentioned Bach, who was a virtuoso on the harpsichord and organ. His most famous compositions are usually for a solo instrument, so others like Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, or Paco De Lucia that composed for guitar should be equally as talented.

As for Mozart and Beethoven, I would compare the ability to write a motif to creating a killer pop chorus. Artists like Billy Corgan who have recorded almost every instrument on an album would also be just as impressive as writing for different sections in a symphony.


Re: short list of Classical ... I would love to see it Smile

I have made a list that combines all of them (even other art forms too, like film and paintings), but I am going through a pretty thorough revision/update of my Classical selections right now, and have chosen not to put such a list back together until I iron it out a bit more.

Talented in terms of technical expertise towards one or more instruments? Probably. But as composers, I would have to disagree pretty strongly, unless we open up a can of Charles Mingus! I do not feel any of those you list have even remotely approached the full view of their craft and grasping of inter-related parts, the incredible contrapuntal, fugal, and elucidation of emotion and concept, in compositions such as Art of Fugue, or Mass in B Minor, or Goldberg Variations, or St Matthew's Passion (and many others). Even Mingus hardly has, and he is the greatest composer in jazz history.

I'd say pretty much the same thing with Corgan vs. Beethoven/Mozart. The main difference between such composers is that Beethoven/Mozart understood themselves through music so well that they were total masters at elucidating emotion/concept from every instrument and groupings of instruments (and voices) to precisely say what they intended, and in the most profound, unique, compelling ways that can survive seemingly endless evaluation. You could hold a talent show across the world and could probably find talents equal/surpassing Corgan here and there. But, there has never been a single composer, in any time, that has been able to compose like Beethoven or Mozart, even all those who have extensively studied and performed their music. They just can't do it. It probably comes down to how precisely Mozart/Beethoven could articulate exactly what they wanted to say, their specific emotions, concepts and ideas, through music -- from their precise, individual view. Hence, composing like them, one has to assume too unique/singular a view to replicate it or create something similar that is also so extraordinary emotionally/conceptually. Their music was them, no acting or alteration in between what they intended and accomplished. I do acknowledge how talented Corgan is/was, and in terms of virtuosity between many different instruments and sheer technical skill/playing ability, yes he is comparable to most anyone. I just don't think he is nearly so extraordinary and endlessly compelling as an artist, or in his compositions, in his ability to communicate the emotional/conceptual depths of his music.
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Last edited by AfterHours on 04/07/2017 02:28; edited 1 time in total
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad



Location: Ground Control
United States

  • #7
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 02:22
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I answered "But, I do! I love Classical Music!", albeit there's two caveats:

1) For BEA: I've already suggested in the suggestions page that entries for "albums" be actually just the pieces themselves and not really tied to recordings because that adds a layer to it all... and do we really want to sort through the 945794 recordings of Beethoven's 9th when putting it on a chart (I never exaggerate... hehe). BEA really isn't geared towards the greatest works of art of all time, rather the greatest recorded albums. And that's ok... there are classical forums (I've never got into them). The way the site is structured is by far my favorite, so it really would be cool to expand it to other art forms (I think we have movie games and the such... why not turn that into something across the board... but I think there's other sites that do that? Like maybe metacritic?

2) My family got me into classical music. I think hearing it live is a totally different ball game and with family playing in the symphony and such, I got that opportunity all the time. Recorded classical music is great too, just like recorded jazz music is great... I mean live music almost always trumps recorded (unless they are terrible artists). Long story short, I don't listen to as much classical music as I do rock music. I'm familiar enough with it to have conversations about it, to know that for me the Russian composers vs German/Austrian composers is a similar argument like American vs British rock/modern music. I can name my favorite composers and pieces. I once learned the classical definition of a symphony and what each movement is trying to do, etc. But neither do I consider myself extremely educated or know more than the average classical listener.

Favorite Beethoven quote: Was ich scheisse ist besser als was du je gedacht hast.

What I shit is better than anything you've ever thought.

I have this list I put together a long time ago, but don't completely agree with it - it's more like a group of things rather than really the best recordings/best pieces ever written (although that's the goal of what that chart would be):

My most favorite Art Music by sethmadsen
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad



Location: Ground Control
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  • #8
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 02:29
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Oh I also know enough that those who study "classical music" actually often refer to what we call classical music "art music" as to not confuse it with the classical period, even if for most people it is accepted that classical music is basically everything written before Jazz music... and then after jazz it's anything written by a composer - orchestrated for an orchestra... unless you are John Cage or Schoenberg... then no it's not classical music, it's art music Smile. haha.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad



Location: Ground Control
United States

  • #9
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 02:31
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Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
I have made a short list of classical music + I am going to expand my top albums further to incorporate classical and jazz albums.

There are plenty of people who are just as talented or more talented than composers. You mentioned Bach, who was a virtuoso on the harpsichord and organ. His most famous compositions are usually for a solo instrument, so others like Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, or Paco De Lucia that composed for guitar should be equally as talented.

As for Mozart and Beethoven, I would compare the ability to write a motif to creating a killer pop chorus. Artists like Billy Corgan who have recorded almost every instrument on an album would also be just as impressive as writing for different sections in a symphony.


Interesting points of view.

I think I agree and disagree at the same time Smile.

And this is the key difference:
Quote:
I just don't think he is nearly so extraordinary and endlessly compelling as an artist, or in his compositions, in his ability to communicate the emotional/conceptual depths of his music.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad



Location: Ground Control
United States

  • #10
  • Posted: 04/07/2017 02:49
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You know... I think I've learned something about emotion and Kant's discussion on what is art/aesthetics and what's called Gesamtkunstwerk.

1) Kant claimed that music was the lowest art form because it required no cognitive function to process and was strictly emotional. Keep in mind this was at a time when most music was not written, therefore there weren't lyrics to process. Yes opera was music - but hey, this was his argument, not mine and I don't think he included opera in this argument. Anyway - Classical music=Emotion

2) Then Wagner comes along and has this idea of Gesamtkunstwerk (total work of art). He wanted to combine music, poetry, paintings, theater, and whatever other artforms all into one giant work of art. This is why you have a 14 hour opera called Der Ring des Nibelungen (which is based off Norse mythology... which yes Lord of the Rings is based of the same concepts... so imagine a 14 hour Lord of the Rings... oh wait... they did that didn't they...). The idea behind this was to really create the greatest work of art ever by combining it all into one. This brought all levels of aesthetic from the lowest, emotion, to the highest, cognitive thought, and combined them together.

Ok the whole reason why I brought all this up is often AfterHours is talking about emotional depth and of course the emotional depth of Beethoven is greater than anything else is because of the medium he is using. He's not ruining his emotion with what could be construed as sappy lyrics, etc. Although if you translate Beethoven's 9th and understand the lyrics, they are both the most amazing and sappy lyrics ever. I saw that on 4th of July at the Hollywood Bowl with LA Phil... and well, there may have been moments where I actually cried.

By the way, I think U2 is just as emotional as Beethoven, especially when Bono belts and Edge chimes those angelic sounds. And to be frank, I think Stravinsky and Mahler have even more emotional depth than Beethoven. I've cried at a U2 concert. I think it really has to do with human connection, and if you think U2 can't connect at a very deep emotional level... you probably haven't been to one of their concerts.


Link


Ok, those are my opinions... just opinions... don't banish me just yet.
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