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Poll: Why don't you listen to much (if any) Classical Music? |
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But, I do! I love Classical Music! |
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38% |
[14] |
Rock artist(s) such as _____ surpassed the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc |
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8% |
[3] |
Jazz artist(s) such as _____ surpassed the likes of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc |
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5% |
[2] |
I've tried and I just don't like/don't 'get' Classical Music |
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16% |
[6] |
I find Classical Music too daunting and just don't know where to start, so I stick to what I'm familiar with |
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30% |
[11] |
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Total Votes : 36 |
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Message |
AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #21
- Posted: 04/07/2017 08:19
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Tha1ChiefRocka wrote: | I can dig it. I meant it to be a relative situation more than a head to head one. Writing a fugue is most definitely the ultimate challenge for anyone wishing to become a master. As a drummer who can't read music, it's not anything I could even fathom.
Since most of the great composers are dead, what do you think of someone like Glenn Gould, (as you mentioned) who can interpret Bach and even add some of his own flair to the music. Does that make him just as good as Bach?
Also what about a song like "Heroes and Villains" by The Beach Boys. There's a lot of stuff that happens in those 3 and a half minutes. |
Re: Gould, just as good as Bach? ... No, I don't think so. I mean, Bach has hundreds of works and several masterpieces/near masterpieces/amazing works plus many other somewhat lesser works that could be called "masterpiece" by less strict standards. Gould, while an unusual and outstanding pianist, and deserving of accolades, is articulating a work that Bach laid all down for him. Gould could never write the Goldberg Variations, only Bach could. Not even Beethoven could write a masterpiece on the order of it with a similar premise (he tried, with his amazing Diabelli Variations). Bach, like Beethoven and Mozart, was the only one who could do what he did when we're talking about his greatest works.
Re: Heroes and Villians ... It's a very well done song. But, to use an extreme analogy (that's not truly comparable) there's also a lot that happens in a Miley Cyrus song or a Lady Gaga song. The real question I would ask myself would be: how much of what is happening in the song is being played creatively and with a singular expressed conviction of emotional and/or conceptual content, and then, to what degree is it doing so in relation to the masterpieces of music history? _________________ Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #22
- Posted: 04/07/2017 08:32
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Fischman wrote: | Huge fan here. Got the bug at about age 27 as I started to really want to branch out from rock and blues (growing up, there was none in my home, or even anywhere in my community).
It's hard to incorporate classical inputs given the format of this site. Specific albums? Beyond being hard to choose, how do we classify them? By composer or performer? I believe Seth has made a suggestion that might help deal with this.
As much as I love classical, my consumption has slowed down greatly in recent years as I've gone bonkers for jazz, which is also a huge world with many periods and sub genres. I suspect my listening will return to some equilibrium as a start to feel I've assimilated adequate depth and breadth in jazz. My limited time with classical now is focused on revisiting the big names I didn't really take to the first time around. I've recently developed a taste for both Shostakovich and Prokofiev, two I thought I may never learn to like. Some time off may have been good. |
Re: Classical fan ... Good, there's another one!
Re: Seth's suggestions ... Yes, would be great if implemented!
Re: Recently Jazz instead of Classical ... I don't blame you. Many incredible works in Jazz! As someone who's gone there and back, it's totally worth it!
Re: Shostakovich/Prokofiev ... Nice! So many great works, so little time! _________________ Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings
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Gender: Female
Age: 38
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- #23
- Posted: 04/07/2017 08:44
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I like the modern (1950s+) electronic stuff and some of the non-electronic stuff but haven't dug too deep into the history of it. I'll get to it eventually, I've got lots of time left to listen to stuff and I'm in no hurry to get to the finish.
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Graeme2
Gender: Male
Location: The Upside Down
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- #24
- Posted: 04/07/2017 08:59
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Anyone with any interest at all in classical music and have no idea where to start, just get to your local charity shops and you will most likely find plenty classical vinyl for next to nothing. Just take a punt. I picked up about 15 for 10p each last year, in NM or VG+ condition.
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albummaster
Janitor
Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin
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- #25
- Posted: 04/07/2017 09:20
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sethmadsen wrote: | 1) For BEA: I've already suggested in the suggestions page that entries for "albums" be actually just the pieces themselves and not really tied to recordings because that adds a layer to it all... and do we really want to sort through the 945794 recordings of Beethoven's 9th when putting it on a chart (I never exaggerate... hehe). BEA really isn't geared towards the greatest works of art of all time, rather the greatest recorded albums. And that's ok... there are classical forums (I've never got into them). The way the site is structured is by far my favorite, so it really would be cool to expand it to other art forms (I think we have movie games and the such... why not turn that into something across the board... but I think there's other sites that do that? Like maybe metacritic |
My favourite piece is probably Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. Obviously, lots of others as well. I think the performer of a piece and their performance is at least as important as the written music because without somebody being able to perform the written music nobody would ever hear it! Performers, orchestras, conductors etc vary widely in their ability, and even a great artist can have a bad day (or an extremely good one), so I think being directed to specific recordings of a particular piece is a very valuable thing to have. One can definitely hear the difference (even the recording equipment itself can have a massive impact).
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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- #26
- Posted: 04/07/2017 13:55
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Graeme2 wrote: | Anyone with any interest at all in classical music and have no idea where to start, just get to your local charity shops and you will most likely find plenty classical vinyl for next to nothing. Just take a punt. I picked up about 15 for 10p each last year, in NM or VG+ condition. |
It also helps if you live in an area with a good classical music radio station. They tend to program the more famous and/or accessible works more often. When I started listening to classical, I was fortunate to be living in Boston and WCRB really got me going. I would listen during my evening commute and as soon as I got out of the car, make a note of what I'd heard and what I thought about it. This really helped me form a basis for what I wanted to explore and what works I wanted to acquire.
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souplipton
Gender: Male
Location: Toronto
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- #27
- Posted: 04/07/2017 17:02
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AfterHours wrote: | Re: Where to start/which recordings... I have done a ton of work to come up with my "Best Classical Recordings" list over in the Music Diaries section: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15098
...which will give you a very big advantage over others starting out. You may find recordings afterwards that you prefer over mine, but I strongly doubt any of my choices will outright disappoint you, aside from just not liking the Classical work itself. Over the years, I've heard more renditions of these than I care to try and think about, and my choices have been made very meticulously (plus it's always in progress and frequently being updated) in an attempt to discern the finest recorded performances of all time -- and I don't mean those legendary, dusty, crackly, muffled recordings from 1935 (or whatever) where you can hardly make out the different orchestral parts. I take sound quality quite validly into account! I mean, it's something we're listening to right!?
Re: Length of compositions ... There's simply more to say (thematically/emotionally) in most cases
Re: Social incentives ... Talkclassical.com is a wonderful site that has many more active users than I see here. I am not recommending leaving BEA, which is a great site -- just adding talkclassical.com to your repertoire, maybe after you get yourself going with Classical music a bit. It has friendly users, many of them knowledgeable and quite contributive to discussion/helpful with recommendations. I recently joined there and have only had a few minor ruffling of feathers among lots of relayed ideas, discussion and so forth. It has a great combo of more experienced listeners, as well as others trying to learn
Re: Out of depth ... I recommend listening, evaluating/thinking about, discussion when possible, maybe some study here and there of key points about works (even while listening if it's light reading and you're used to the work by then, and it's not too distracting). You're always welcome to discuss Classical on one of my pages. I'd be happy to help with insights.
Also, wikipedia does a pretty good job of defining basic terms. Or, I'm sure there are simplified glossaries available online. Books such as Classical Music for Dummies (excuse the title!) are actually quite useful for starting out. |
All of these are excellent solutions to the roadblocks I presented, however, I believe the barrier to entry for many people is not that these roadblocks are difficult to solve, but that they exist at all. As well, these solutions still require an investment of time and some effort. One must put in the work to sort through the various recommendations, and learn the glossary definitions before beginning to listen. Although the length of the piece may be warranted by the depth of meaning contained within, that does not change the length of the composition, and therefore the necessary commitment of time.
Before I started listening, I took a similar approach to what you recommended, but I think the fact that one must take any steps at all may prevent many people from trying.
Also, my point about social incentive was less about online discussion and more about offline social circles. I often introduce my friends to new music and they do the same with me, but I personally can't envision getting many of my buddies to bear with me should I recommend anything prior to the advent of Jazz (for many of them, Jazz or any rock prior to the mid-60s is a tough sell). Though this may not be the case with everyone's friends, I doubt that this situation is exclusive to my group of friends. I do not doubt that TalkClassical.com is an excellent site for online discussion of classical music, it's just not an answer to what I meant to say in my post (clearer writing on my part could have prevented this ambiguity).
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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souplipton
Gender: Male
Location: Toronto
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- #29
- Posted: 04/07/2017 18:17
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Went through this list and saved pieces from Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Stravinsky, Bartok and Messiaen to my Spotify account. Listened to the Gergiev conducted rendition of Rite of Spring, and absolutely loved it. About to start your recommended version of the the Jupiter symphony.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #30
- Posted: 04/07/2017 19:00
- Post subject:
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albummaster wrote: | My favourite piece is probably Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. Obviously, lots of others as well. I think the performer of a piece and their performance is at least as important as the written music because without somebody being able to perform the written music nobody would ever hear it! Performers, orchestras, conductors etc vary widely in their ability, and even a great artist can have a bad day (or an extremely good one), so I think being directed to specific recordings of a particular piece is a very valuable thing to have. One can definitely hear the difference (even the recording equipment itself can have a massive impact). |
I actually really agree with this... it's just hard. haha.
It really is hard to pick the best recording when listing out a list of 100... but hey, for those that really are that familiar with 100 specific recordings as their favorites it is great.
I also imagine if even 1,000 users were so detailed, we'd have many, many versions of the same thing.
I'm not super disappointed with it. It's actually just fine. I do think though that it'd simplify things to list just the composer and the work. Tough middle ground. The other problem is not all the classical works are entered in the same way - sometimes the "band" is the composer and other times the band is the orchestra... maybe if it were labeled better then it'd be less a headache?
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