Why don't you listen to much (if any) Classical Music? - Music

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

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souplipton wrote:

Went through this list and saved pieces from Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Stravinsky, Bartok and Messiaen to my Spotify account. Listened to the Gergiev conducted rendition of Rite of Spring, and absolutely loved it. About to start your recommended version of the the Jupiter symphony.

Awesome -enjoy!

Tha1ChiefRocka
Yeah, well hey, I'm really sorry.

Location: Kansas

One more idea to compare the abilities and artistry of composers to contemporary artists.

What about gapless albums? Albums in which each track goes seamlessly into the next creating one large piece of music. Pink Floyd did this countless times on Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall. Even The Beatles did it on the second side of Abbey Road.

One of my favorite examples would be "Ladies and Gentleman We are Floating in Space" by Spiritualized. Most of the tracks lead into the subsequent one creating the feel of movements. Jason Pierce arranged all the music including the strings and choir. While I would not say he is better than a lot of composers, I would still argue that the same amount of dedication and care went into creating an album of this scope as did any symphony.

AfterHours

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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Graeme2 wrote:

Anyone with any interest at all in classical music and have no idea where to start, just get to your local charity shops and you will most likely find plenty classical vinyl for next to nothing. Just take a punt. I picked up about 15 for 10p each last year, in NM or VG+ condition.

Thank you, great suggestion!
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AfterHours

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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

albummaster wrote:

My favourite piece is probably Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez. Obviously, lots of others as well. I think the performer of a piece and their performance is at least as important as the written music because without somebody being able to perform the written music nobody would ever hear it! Performers, orchestras, conductors etc vary widely in their ability, and even a great artist can have a bad day (or an extremely good one), so I think being directed to specific recordings of a particular piece is a very valuable thing to have. One can definitely hear the difference (even the recording equipment itself can have a massive impact).

Great to see Concierto de Aranjuez mentioned!

I do agree that the recorded performances are essential and well worth including and listing. If there were a way to make the main entry the Classical Work itself, and then maybe have a "sub" entry as part of the same listing be the database of various "albums" for one's preferred recording, I think that would be optimum. Perhaps easier said than done I'm sure Smile

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AfterHours

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Tap wrote:

I like the modern (1950s+) electronic stuff and some of the non-electronic stuff but haven't dug too deep into the history of it. I'll get to it eventually, I've got lots of time left to listen to stuff and I'm in no hurry to get to the finish.

Right on

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AfterHours

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Fischman wrote:

It also helps if you live in an area with a good classical music radio station. They tend to program the more famous and/or accessible works more often. When I started listening to classical, I was fortunate to be living in Boston and WCRB really got me going. I would listen during my evening commute and as soon as I got out of the car, make a note of what I'd heard and what I thought about it. This really helped me form a basis for what I wanted to explore and what works I wanted to acquire.

Yes, another excellent suggestion.
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AfterHours

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souplipton wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Re: Where to start/which recordings... I have done a ton of work to come up with my "Best Classical Recordings" list over in the Music Diaries section: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15098

...which will give you a very big advantage over others starting out. You may find recordings afterwards that you prefer over mine, but I strongly doubt any of my choices will outright disappoint you, aside from just not liking the Classical work itself. Over the years, I've heard more renditions of these than I care to try and think about, and my choices have been made very meticulously (plus it's always in progress and frequently being updated) in an attempt to discern the finest recorded performances of all time -- and I don't mean those legendary, dusty, crackly, muffled recordings from 1935 (or whatever) where you can hardly make out the different orchestral parts. I take sound quality quite validly into account! I mean, it's something we're listening to right!?

Re: Length of compositions ... There's simply more to say (thematically/emotionally) in most cases

Re: Social incentives ... Talkclassical.com is a wonderful site that has many more active users than I see here. I am not recommending leaving BEA, which is a great site -- just adding talkclassical.com to your repertoire, maybe after you get yourself going with Classical music a bit. It has friendly users, many of them knowledgeable and quite contributive to discussion/helpful with recommendations. I recently joined there and have only had a few minor ruffling of feathers among lots of relayed ideas, discussion and so forth. It has a great combo of more experienced listeners, as well as others trying to learn

Re: Out of depth ... I recommend listening, evaluating/thinking about, discussion when possible, maybe some study here and there of key points about works (even while listening if it's light reading and you're used to the work by then, and it's not too distracting). You're always welcome to discuss Classical on one of my pages. I'd be happy to help with insights.

Also, wikipedia does a pretty good job of defining basic terms. Or, I'm sure there are simplified glossaries available online. Books such as Classical Music for Dummies (excuse the title!) are actually quite useful for starting out.

All of these are excellent solutions to the roadblocks I presented, however, I believe the barrier to entry for many people is not that these roadblocks are difficult to solve, but that they exist at all. As well, these solutions still require an investment of time and some effort. One must put in the work to sort through the various recommendations, and learn the glossary definitions before beginning to listen. Although the length of the piece may be warranted by the depth of meaning contained within, that does not change the length of the composition, and therefore the necessary commitment of time.

Before I started listening, I took a similar approach to what you recommended, but I think the fact that one must take any steps at all may prevent many people from trying.

Also, my point about social incentive was less about online discussion and more about offline social circles. I often introduce my friends to new music and they do the same with me, but I personally can't envision getting many of my buddies to bear with me should I recommend anything prior to the advent of Jazz (for many of them, Jazz or any rock prior to the mid-60s is a tough sell). Though this may not be the case with everyone's friends, I doubt that this situation is exclusive to my group of friends. I do not doubt that TalkClassical.com is an excellent site for online discussion of classical music, it's just not an answer to what I meant to say in my post (clearer writing on my part could have prevented this ambiguity).

Re: barriers ... Fair enough, I suppose it comes down to how important it is to one. How important is discovering (or not) much of the most incredible music ever composed? It varies from person to person.

Re: social incentive ... I do agree commonality with "real-life" friends is even better. I've been fortunate to have some that are dedicated to Classical, but certainly less than for Rock music. And I certainly have works I adore in either medium where I'm pretty much on my own, only to be saved by internet communities! Smile

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AfterHours

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Fischman wrote:

Another suggestion for the budding classical neophyte: This is an interesting book that makes a great starting point

https://www.amazon.com/Classical-Music-...0449910423

Yes! That is the exact book that got me rolling some 20-odd years ago! Smile

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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

souplipton wrote:

Went through this list and saved pieces from Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Stravinsky, Bartok and Messiaen to my Spotify account. Listened to the Gergiev conducted rendition of Rite of Spring, and absolutely loved it. About to start your recommended version of the the Jupiter symphony.

Really great to see this Smile

I'm looking forward to what you think. Feel free to come on over to that thread and discuss the works themselves and/or the selected recordings. Always appreciate feedback, discussion, suggestions of other recordings, etc.

Note: the Pinnock Mozart 41 is among the best and you can't go wrong with it, but might have been surpassed by the more recent Mackerras/Scottish rendition (certainly for sound quality, I'm undecided if I prefer the overall performance or not): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp4dol4uSkw ... Don't think this one is available on Spotify, though.

And, though the sound quality isn't as great, I may still fall back to Bohm/Berlin (which was my preferred version before adding the Pinnock). This one is available on Spotify ... and Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEKUUnkbZMA

I'll probably update the list soon to include both, because Pinnock/Mackerras is with Mozart's "repeats" (which is the main reason why they're longer) and Bohm's is without (which I prefer in most comparisons). But both types are just as valid (Mozart's main reasoning for the repeats was not necessarily compositional, but so the audience during a live performance grasped his works due to having their themes and parts repeated enough for them. Today, I don't think this is as necessary and is arguable if they should be included on recordings and for today's listeners. It's a matter of preference...) Thus, I'll probably include a "best recording" for w/o repeats and a "best recording" with repeats.
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Last edited by AfterHours on 04/07/2017 21:44; edited 2 times in total

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:

One more idea to compare the abilities and artistry of composers to contemporary artists.

What about gapless albums? Albums in which each track goes seamlessly into the next creating one large piece of music. Pink Floyd did this countless times on Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall. Even The Beatles did it on the second side of Abbey Road.

One of my favorite examples would be "Ladies and Gentleman We are Floating in Space" by Spiritualized. Most of the tracks lead into the subsequent one creating the feel of movements. Jason Pierce arranged all the music including the strings and choir. While I would not say he is better than a lot of composers, I would still argue that the same amount of dedication and care went into creating an album of this scope as did any symphony.

All three are great examples. Overall I do think it can help in terms of added momentum (when done well and appropriately) but I don't think it would make a major difference if they weren't segued, except for the initial novelty of it. In most cases the songs are individually still the same songs. Of the three, Abbey Road probably gets the greatest benefit in its medley portion, because the songs are "cut and pasted" for that exact purpose so that it wouldn't be nearly as effective otherwise.

I don't think a longer piece is better because it's longer. Only if it fills in such length with significant content. All three of those you mention are excellent albums and pretty significant/better than many others, but I don't find them nearly as extraordinary as any of the Classical works (or 8/10+ Rock/Jazz albums) that I list.

That said, I certainly don't want to "take that away from you". If you find them as great as many symphonies, you should continue with such admiration!
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